Guest John Chapman Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Skyking</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...It has nothing to do with buying a Prius. </div></div>Bob,Consider the source. <span style="font-style: italic">Everything</span>, including foreplay, has to do with a Prius.... JMC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R W Burgess Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 John, how can you have foreplay and be Prius? Wayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Skyking Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 John, you're right, I should have known.........sorry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave@Moon Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How in the heck did they make change?? shocked</div></div>S L O W L Y .Actually the place was a hoot. It was a 2 person operation. The junior staff, a 20 something young woman with (literally) no teeth, was left to serve us by herself. (<span style="font-style: italic">Luckily there was a Wendy's next door for about 1/2 of our group.</span>) The manager (I assume that's what he was) was busy. First he had his mother charging her cell phone in the dining area so she could call her mechanic because her truck had broke down. Then as we left he brought her truck's battery inside and hooked it up to a charger from the same dining room outlet. Evidently she had dead batteries in both her truck and phone.Apparently there's neither a union nor a Dept. of Health to be found in the area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave@Moon Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Skyking</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> we are paying 1 to 1.5 billion dollars a day. It has nothing to do with buying a Prius. </div></div><span style="font-style: italic"><span style="text-decoration: underline">THAT</span></span> is a crock, and anyone remotely familiar with ANWAR and/or oil reserves knows it.<span style="text-decoration: underline">Just</span> in terms of what we import from outside North America, ANWAR <span style="text-decoration: underline">and all of Alaska</span> would last less than 3 years--assuming it could be exploited in the volumes and speed of non-Arctic oil fields. I know facts don't mean much in discussions like this, because Rush Limbaugh side comment quotes hold equal weight with the life work of University of Oxford Dept. Chairmen, but at some point reality should be acknowledged. The most pro-oil people in the world admit that we'll never be able to drill out of the oil crunch our greed has created, at least among the oil companies and their minions in Washington and elsewhere. Some of us will never admit it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave@Moon Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: R W Burgess</div><div class="ubbcode-body">John, how can you have foreplay and be Prius? Wayne </div></div>You do know that Prius means <span style="font-style: italic">"The one who comes before"</span>, don't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Skyking Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave@Moon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Actually the place was a hoot. It was a 2 person operation. The junior staff, a 20 something young woman with (literally) no teeth, was left to serve us by herself. </div></div> That reminds me of a joke I heard when I was living down south.............."What has 8 legs and 2 teeth?">>>>>>>>>>>>>>>The night shift at The Waffle House. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest simplyconnected Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1948Lincoln</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What are the advantages and disadvantages in regards to buying American?</div></div><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: John Chapman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: simplyconnected</div><div class="ubbcode-body">....Why do I see so many more foreign cars in the parking lots of:US Military BasesUniversities</div></div>Simple. If you remove the emotional quotient of 'buy American, etc., and look only at the empirical facts, you discover that 'the consumer' (<span style="font-style: italic">all </span>free choice consumers) will, <span style="font-style: italic">as a group</span>, make the choice that is of the greatest benefit to them.</div></div>I think I get it, John. Most Americans have no emotion for their country (other Americans); I will call that 'lack of patriotism'. They buy, based on "emperical facts" and what they percieve to be the greatest benefit to themselves (at that time).I think that's my point. We don't need to buy "charity" but we don't need to shoot ourselves in the foot, either. If you aren't unemployed yet, keep buying foreign. All the degrees in the world will be useless if there's no place to work but McDonald's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Skyking Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: simplyconnected</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> All the degrees in the world will be useless if there's no place to work but McDonald's. </div></div>According to another member on this forum, we'll have new industry for the next world. That's where the real jobs will be. <span style="font-weight: bold">That one went clear over my head! </span> I guess by his standards, we're going in the right direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave@Moon Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> According to another member on this forum, we'll have new industry for the next world. That's where the real jobs will be. That one went clear over my head! </div></div>Exactly! By George, I think you <span style="font-weight: bold">are</span> starting to get it! At least a lot of what I was talking about should've been over all our heads. Now if we could all agree that Who's on first, What's on second, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest simplyconnected Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 With all due respect Dave, our 'new world' can't afford to trade good paying jobs for wind powered generators and a thousand solar powered satellites, (probably manufactured in Indonesia).The Nordic countries are all examples of countries where education is free all the way up, including post-graduate studies. I don't see many products coming from there, except fish, and ASEA robots, and their education hasn't made them a super-power. America's success is based on a tremendous wealth of natural resources (I'll include wind), and a lot of organized labor. Since all the manufacturing is gone, I guess we will revert to 'hunting & gathering'. I wonder how many skins will buy a new car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlier Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: simplyconnected</div><div class="ubbcode-body">With all due respect Dave, our 'new world' can't afford to trade good paying jobs for wind powered generators and a thousand solar powered satellites, (probably manufactured in Indonesia).</div></div>Might want to check out the following list of companies located in the >>>USA<<< that maunufacture & sell wind power components.http://energy.sourceguides.com/businesses/byGeo/US/byP/wRP/lwindturbine/byB/mfg/mfg.shtml Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave@Moon Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: John Chapman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Skyking</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...It has nothing to do with buying a Prius. </div></div>Bob,Consider the source. <span style="font-style: italic">Everything</span>, including foreplay, has to do with a Prius.... JMC </div></div><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">With all due respect Dave, our 'new world' can't afford to trade good paying jobs for wind powered generators and a thousand solar powered satellites, (probably manufactured in Indonesia).</div></div>Doesn't anyone understand the concept of using examples to illustrate a point? Doesn't anyone have the imagination to envision this country building something it hasn't yet built? Doesn't anyone have the confidence that this country <span style="text-decoration: underline">could</span> build something new/innovative/better? Doesn't anyone appreciate that preparing for the new is not the same as preserving the old? Maybe those well educated Nordic populations aren't all for naught! Hopefully we can hire <span style="font-style: italic">them</span>! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 One thing that often gets overlooked about foreign companies doing business here is that they pay taxes just like any other. There's the gripe that the profits leave, but they've already been taxed by the US government--theoretically, our economy is being partially supported by these foreign companies. And the ones who build stuff here are paying their workers, paying more taxes on those workers, paying for health insurance, Social Security, Medicare, and investing their pension/401k money in our banks (which obviously desperately need it). A good many of them use domestic subcontractors, too. They aren't shipping ALL their parts in from other countries.Profits leaving is a small amount compared to the amount they're leaving behind.A bigger problem is domestic companies moving assembly offshore and cutting jobs. Their sales tax burden is still the same, but labor costs have gone down and they're no longer paying domestic workers nor the associated benefits/taxes/investments. Buying more Fords won't stop them from building them in Mexico--their profit margins will simply get bigger, and that's all they want. They don't care about paper patriotism or national pride, they're in business to make money (if you think they're in business because they love building cars, you're sadly mistaken). It isn't the buying public's fault, it's how business has always been done: cut costs, increase profits.However, buying a Honda made in Marysville, Ohio might encourage Honda to build more cars here--it's cheaper for them. Of course, they're non-union. Hmmmmm...Or we can just sit on our hands like those guys in the bars waiting for the steel mills and single-income families and carburetors to come back. I know that's Cleveland's mantra and has been for 25 years. "The mills will be back." Sure, just like the Superbowl has been "just around the corner" for the Browns for nearly 45 years. Feh. I think Dave's trying to point out that you can either wait for things to go back to the way they were (they won't) or prepare for a future that's going to be very different (it will). Those of you who were alive in the 50s know that today things are radically different. In 50 more years, the change will be even more pronounced (cue rose-colored glasses guy saying how things were better in the '50s and that's how we should be living today). Adapt or die--economic evolution. Wishes aren't dollars.Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R W Burgess Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 Good post Matt!Pull up those boot straps and do something beneficial for you and your country! Wayne-A Happy Camper! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Chapman Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave@Moon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...Prius means <span style="font-style: italic">"The one who comes before"</span>, don't you? </div></div>Well, I guess disappointment will reign on both counts, eh?Cheers,JMC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Chapman Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: simplyconnected</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...Nordic countries ...I don't see many products coming from there, except fish, and ASEA robots, and their education hasn't made them a super-power.</div></div>Simply...you are grossly uninformed.Sweden: Volvo (world class provider of heavy trucks and buses...cars are a sideline); Saab (world class provider of cutting edge aircraft... cars are a sideline); world class provider of paper producing machinery; world class production of technical steel, paper, and electronics.Finland: Can you utter... Nokia and Ericson? How about a leading manufacturer of cruise ships/ferries (including the world's largest... Royal Caribbean's <span style="font-style: italic">Oasis </span>class by Aker yards is 225,000 tons), oil platforms, and cargo handling equipment? Major forest product exporter.Norway: Major seafood exporter, major oil/gas development, engineering, processing; major science and research activities; major producer of paper production equipment and precision instrumentation.Not bad for three countries that comprise about 0.5% of the world population.Did you know... that if you took <span style="font-style: italic">ALL </span>of the Arab oil producing regions and removed oil from their GNP figures that the sum would not equal the GNP of Finland?Oh... the education system? All three put the US to absolute shame with respect to overall quality.Cheers,JMC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Chapman Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: simplyconnected</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think I get it, John. Most Americans have no emotion for their country (other Americans); I will call that 'lack of patriotism'. They buy, based on "empirical facts" and what they perceive to be the greatest benefit to themselves (at that time).I think that's my point. We don't need to buy "charity" but we don't need to shoot ourselves in the foot, either. If you aren't unemployed yet, keep buying foreign. All the degrees in the world will be useless if there's no place to work but McDonald's. </div></div>Simply, no, you don't get it. To paraphrase The One: You can put the lipstick of patriotism on a pig, but you've still got a Chevy (generically speaking). People see right through that. All the foot shooting has been done, pretty much, with respect to the US auto industry. Now we'll just await the current draft US$500 billion Democrat Congressional 2009 Budget budget that contains a US $25 billion bailout for 'Detroit'. Automotive pigs and pork... how they go together....Yawanfrieswitdat?Cheers,JMC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Chapman Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Matt Harwood</div><div class="ubbcode-body">you can either wait for things to go back to the way they were (they won't) or prepare for a future that's going to be very different (it will)</div></div>Matt, excellent post. Same guys sitting on bar stools in PIT, too. With respect to change, a good thought provoking book is <span style="font-style: italic">Who Moved My Cheese?</span> by Spencer Johnson.Cheers,JMC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest simplyconnected Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave@Moon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...Doesn't anyone have the imagination to envision this country building something it hasn't yet built? Doesn't anyone have the confidence that this country <span style="text-decoration: underline">could</span> build something new/innovative/better?</div></div> My wife's new Farberware is stainless, with a thick COPPER bottom. Stamped in the copper are the words, "DESIGNED IN USA * MANUFACTURED IN CHINA". It is unsurpassed in quality and expensive as hell. The point is, manufacturers can't start production soon enough in foreign countries where they have no EPA, child labor laws, and no OSHA. That's what we support, but that's not what we want for ourselves.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1948Lincoln</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What are the advantages and disadvantages in regards to buying American?</div></div> Recently, our imported children's toys measured very high in lead. The US government said they didn't have the money or the police to check foreign imports. When your babies are affected, you try suing China. Our gov't can't help, CHINA was plainly marked on the product, and 'you' took the risk.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Matt Harwood</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A bigger problem is domestic companies moving assembly offshore and cutting jobs... Buying more Fords won't stop them from building them in Mexico--...However, buying a Honda made in Marysville, Ohio might encourage Honda to build more cars here--it's cheaper for them...</div></div> With regards to the original question, if buying a 'domestic' Honda will encourage Honda to build more cars here, why wouldn't buying a 'domestic' GM encourage GM to build more here, especially if it really IS cheaper?I agree with this, Matt: ALL companies are in business to make as much money as they can. They do that by satisfying specific markets. If Americans like buying foreign, GM will make foreign. Make no mistake, if we bought nothing but domestic, none of our manufacturing would leave, and our economy would be very strong. I don't blame companies, they are still trying to satisfy buyers. It's the BUYERS who can't see the forest...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest simplyconnected Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 John, you forgot Heineken, and you missed the point. Volvo and Saab don't make a spit when compared to Asian imports, where the general population has far less education. Honda makes generators, motorcycles, and a myriad of products other than cars. Zero's were powered by Mitsubishi. I don't see the big three running to the Nordic countries for manufacturing, either. Wanna compare Japan to the Netherlands? Don't even. For every copier, cell phone, or ship the NL's produce, the less-educated Indonesians make TEN or more.This discussion is about the advantages of buying American. We owe it to 1948Lincoln, to not get diverted on a moot tangent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Chapman Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: simplyconnected</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...you forgot Heineken, and you missed the point...</div></div>Maybe... but... I know Heineken is Dutch.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: simplyconnected</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This discussion is about the advantages of buying American. We owe it to 1948Lincoln, to not get diverted on a moot tangent. </div></div>Any discussion about advantages must examine the disadvantages/disincentives as well, lest you wind up sounding like the clarions of the looney left. Why do we owe 1948Lincoln <span style="font-style: italic">anything</span>? Was there an entitlement that I missed? Is a moot tangent related to a snipe hunt?Cheers,JMC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlier Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 Since someone mentioned the automotive divisions of Saab and Volvo.....Does anyone here know who currently owns the automotive division of these two car makes?????In 1999 Ford purchased Volvo's automotive division and in 2000 General Motors purchased Saab's automotive division.Some other in this thread expressed their concern that the Japanese automakers were "exporting" their profits to benefit the parent companies in "foreign" countries. Funny how both Ford and GM are doing the same thing that some people here get so worked up about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Chapman Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: charlier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">... Saab and Volvo.....Does anyone here know who currently owns the automotive division of these two car makes?????</div></div>Ford Motor Company still owns Volvo Cars.Volvo Motors (trucks/buses/equipment) owns/controls: * Volvo * Mack * Renault Trucks * Nissan Diesel * Prevost Car * Nova BusIn a number of acquisitions/mergers in the 1980s/1990s, Volvo Trucks North America has subsumed or combined with GMC heavy truck lines, White Motor Company (GMCWhite, defunct), Autocar (name resold), and Western Star (name resold).GM still owns Saab AutomobilesSaab AB continues as an independent manufacturer of aircraft, defense systems, and electronics.Cheers,JMC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 63Stude Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 I prefer to buy American when possible. I figure I can't whine about no manufacturing jobs, then go make the problem worse. But on top of that, I've liked my domestics.I know what everyone says about Hondas built in OH, etc., but I think it's been pretty-much proven that the big 3 still employee more people, including suppliers, in the U.S. than any of the import manufacturers operating here.I bought a new '08 Chevy Cobalt LS/XFE in April. 80% domestic content, assembled in NE OH about 30 miles from where I live, and one of the cheapest cars to buy. I paid $11,900 before my GM card earnings ($2K) and trade, and before taxes. The car is a 4-door 5-speed with optional side moldings, floor mats, ABS, and has standard a/c and satellite radio. I am delighted with it for the price, and also happy with the domestic content. I think there's no bad in any of that.Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest simplyconnected Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: R W Burgess</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> ...Pull up those boot straps and do something beneficial for you and your country!</div></div> Here, HERE! That's the most profound statement in this entire thread.I will add that to my other famous American quotes:A house divided cannot stand.-AL...ask, what you can do for your country.-JFK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Skyking Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Matt Harwood</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One thing that often gets overlooked about foreign companies doing business here is that they pay taxes just like any other. </div></div>.......and they also get huge tax breaks where U.S. companies don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Skyking Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 Donald Riegle, the Michigan Senator once asked, "wouldn't we want to make computer chips rather than potatoe chips". He knew what was taking place in the early 90's. I still blame Congress.................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: simplyconnected</div><div class="ubbcode-body">With regards to the original question, if buying a 'domestic' Honda will encourage Honda to build more cars here, why wouldn't buying a 'domestic' GM encourage GM to build more here, especially if it really IS cheaper?</div></div>The problem is that it IS NOT cheaper for GM to build cars here. Honda using a non-union domestic labor force is cheaper than building cars with Japanese workers and shipping them and paying import duties. GM building cars with the UAW costs more than using Mexicans who will work for pennies on the dollar. Unfortunately, it looks like the UAW is going to ride this auto industry gravy train right into the ground. If union leadership were patriots, they'd see the writing on the wall that it's about to be all or nothing for them. Instead, they feel entitled to the ridiculous perks and benefits that their grandfathers enjoyed when a rich and fat GM owned 60% of the market.American companies aren't going to stick around simply for patriotic reasons. They're all driven by profits, nothing more, nothing less. If they can make more money by paying foreign workers less, they'll do it regardless of who is buying the product. If they sell more product at the same time, so much the better. Buying 100% domestic won't change that economic fact.None of their marketing departments are pitching the idea that if they spent more to build things 100% domestically that thousands of additional American patriots would buy them automatically. If the Chevy Impala were 100% domestic, do you really think they'd sell any more than they do now? If the Toyota Camry were 100% Japanese, would they sell any less?It's good to be a patriot. But don't make the mistake of believing that industry shares your beliefs.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: skyking</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.......and they also get huge tax breaks where U.S. companies don't.</div></div>Really? What's the source for that info?<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This discussion is about the advantages of buying American. We owe it to 1948Lincoln, to not get diverted on a moot tangent.</div></div>Yeah, isn't he about due to show up with a completely unrelated anti-Democrat rant about now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave@Moon Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yeah, isn't he about due to show up with a completely unrelated anti-Democrat rant about now?</div></div>I thought that was our version of Rickrolling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bkazmer Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 Interesting book on this subject called "Who Really Made Your Car?" by Klier and Rubenstein, published this year. Not exactly easy reading, but lots of data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Skyking Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Matt Harwood</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: skyking</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.......and they also get huge tax breaks where U.S. companies don't.</div></div>Really? What's the source for that info?? </div></div> Here's one for starters...... I'm sure I can find more.And the writer goes on telling why GM, Ford & Chrysler are so important to our economy.Do you really think they set up shop in this country because they like us?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest simplyconnected Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 WOW! Excellent portrayal pertaining to the original post, Skyking. Your article answers tough questions about the entire automotive industry:<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Skyking</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here's one for starters...... I'm sure I can find more.And the writer goes on telling why GM, Ford & Chrysler are so important to our economy.Do you really think they set up shop in this country because they like us??</div></div> The bigger question is:<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1948Lincoln</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What are the advantages and disadvantages in regards to buying American?</div></div> 1948Lincoln didn't say anything about the automotive market, although the AACA is all about cars.Interestingly, Japan, China, and India have committed significant funding for their auto industries...<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: John Chapman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now we'll just await the current draft US$500 billion Democrat Congressional 2009 Budget budget that contains a US $25 billion bailout for 'Detroit'.</div></div>But when the US commits to GIVE BACK a little to her biggest golden goose, John Chapman calls that a "$25 billion bailout for 'Detroit'." And how much did you say, the foreign companies anted to our government over the years? Nothing, by comparison.While you are worried about US$25-billion, urgency was the message for administration officials who testified before the Senate Banking Committee about their proposal to spend $US700 billion to buy troubled, mortgage-linked securities from financial firms. Now it hits hard. Remember all those laid-off workers? Keep buying foreign and you will realize an even more terrible consequence.We're saving money, NOW, aren't we? George Bush, speaking at the UN, predicted quick passage of the "robust" bailout plan, which would "deal with serious problems". More to come at 9pm, tonight... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest simplyconnected Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 Well, "the slippery slope of socialism" reigns true. Get your wallets cocked and ready to give up $10k for each American household, boys. I pray Americans realize the advantage of buying American, and keeping America employed. When we were all working, our gov't returned rebate checks to every taxpayer. Alan Greenspan will always remain, my hero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Skyking Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 Simply, we're speaking to the deaf............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest simplyconnected Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 Funny, how quiet they get when reality smacks them. Either they're busy buying more foreign stuff, or they're trying to clean out their investment accounts, so the government doesn't take any.The whole time Bush spoke, not once did he mention the word "unemployment." NOW, he says Fannie Mae has been granting credit/loans for years, to folks who couldn't afford it. Yeah, seven (to be exact). Hard-working, able-bodied Americans lost their jobs and couldn't make their payments. Some of them helped their company pack the machines on trucks, bound for the orient.I'm wondering how many millions in severance pay, the CEO's will walk away with (all paid for by us). We already know the treasury will buy those dead-beat mortgages for MORE than street value (otherwise the banks would sell them for street value). We're saving money, NOW... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Skyking Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 It was just a matter of time when all this was going to catch up. Now everyone is surprised............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Chapman Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: simplyconnected</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Funny, how quiet they get when reality smacks them. Either they're busy buying more foreign stuff, or they're trying to clean out their investment accounts, so the government doesn't take any.</div></div>SC, my silence has had to do more with helping run our home-based business than working my investment accounts.As the the $25B loan package for US manufacturers, it passed. With luck, it will work as well as the loan to Chrysler in the '80's. The shame of it is that the loans will only delay the inevitable collapse of the domestic auto makers as they struggle under the odious burden imposed by the UAW. Once they reorganize under Chapter 11 protection and break the UAW strangle hold, then we'll begin to see some improvement in product quality and price competitiveness... oh, and we'll keep more jobs here in the USA.I'd encourage you to fully follow the genesis of the 'easy mortgage' trail... it goes back a lot farther than seven years. In fact, it lands smack in the middle of the early Clinton administration (Dem controlled Congress) with the prohibition against 'red lining'.The current liquidity crisis has much more to do with the 'mark to market' accounting requirement of Sarbanes-Oxley than it does with 'buy American'.Oh, and I think Mr. Bush hit the nail on the head when he said folks bought property they couldn't afford. It takes two to tango. Personal fiscal responsibility is an individual responsibility. Oh, and don't forget, "Credit is not a civil right!"As for tax breaks to locate a company somewhere, that has been used repeatedly for both domestic and foreign manufacturers. You note that Nissan has reduced personnel strength... true... sales for Nissan are down and the company has had a rough go the past few years. That'd be the French penalty (they killed AMC and damn near killed JEEP (remember, real JEEPs have ROUND headlights!)) As for the set up in TN (Franklin, actually) the locals are very pleased that Nissan is there, but then TN has a more enlightened view than most places in the US... Funny how Nissan makes a go of producing cars in TN, but Saturn struggles mightily. Must be something in the water.Oh, what's the point...<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Skyking</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Simply, we're speaking to the deaf............ </div></div>Only hard of hearing. Twenty years of Navy airplanes and carrier flight decks will do that to you....JMC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 I found this prophetic piece today: 9-year-old article that predicts this very situation.Most relevant sentences: <span style="font-style: italic">But the government-subsidized corporation may run into trouble in an economic downturn, prompting a government rescue similar to that of the savings and loan industry in the 1980's.</span> and <span style="font-style: italic">"If they fail, the government will have to step up and bail them out the way it stepped up and bailed out the thrift industry."</span> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Skyking Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 Matt, unfortunately it will get worst before better....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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