Cokekid Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 Deceided to replace my points and I am just waiting for my new points to arrive. While waiting I am trying to find some info on how to go about changing them.I cannot find and directions on how I go about dismantling the distributor to replace them.Any help would be appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter_smith Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 Hello againIt is fairly straightforward, remove the coil assembly, and condensers from the top of the distributor,(3 screws), when you lift them off DO NOT rock them for and aft to break the gasket free, if you do you are sure to break the carbons on the side of the slip rings, (the carbons may need replacing anyway, and the sliprings may need skimming in a lathe on its own shaft if it is pitted) if the coils are stuck by the gasket, only rock them from side to side until you can lift them away.if the distributor side plates are still in place (where the HT leads plug in, be very careful with them, they become seized in with time, gentle tapping with a piece of wood may free them, mine were siezed solid, and nothing would move them, I had to resort to very quickly heating the ally case with a welding torch, and tapping them out as quickly as possible, before the heat got to them, (whatever you do don't break them).You can now get into the points remove the 3 screws and a splitpin and they are out, fit your new ones and set up as per the instuctions for the timing jig.RegardsPeter Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cokekid Posted July 30, 2008 Author Share Posted July 30, 2008 Hi PeterI read your instuctions and it seems fairly easy to do as I already have the distributor on the bench with the coil and caps removed.I now just have to wait until the points are delivered.Once again thanks for replying to my problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no more Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 Easy is like a 60's gm car with a uniset..and a window in the cap to set dwell..these are not easy.I am not an expert but....obviously unscrew and reattatch new parts..clean up as nec everthing..make certain the points address each other flat and flush when closing..bend if nec...put mech back in case and adjust point gap on tip of lobe. both sides..double check fool around and recheck a couple times..the hard part (for me) is reaching in that housing and setting em. Now you have to set synch screw..(the mystery screw beneath the side plate base timing setting screw) put in box and mail to jake flemming in texas!! he will synch and time the unit....d'oh........orif u get a motors / chiltons manual from 40s/50s. there is a procedure to measure left vs right vs mounting holes and open close time...this is essential. other wise think of a twin engine boat with 2 engines running at diff speeds..your engine has in essence 2 dist systems in one box..operating independantly of one another..dialed in you can do 50+ in 2nd gear....or have a real dog....I bet Mr. Knapp can chime in with some wisdom..most older "sun" machines could do them..and maybe up there they are still around..not here..jake or skip in fla are only 2 guys I know of....I used 2 timing lights once and adjusted to get single "flash" like a boat engine synchro..kinda fun to play with..I would rather drive than work on this thing anymore...I implore you to be certain to replace both condensers...I had no luck with nos..Earle Brown has new ones..Skip in punta gorda rebuilds coils all new guts..jake cleans? them...this dist is about the best most trouble free part on the car..do it once right, and forget it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter_smith Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 Hello Jeff.From your comments, I take it your not volunteering to do any of these for anyone then.Seriously, I have already passed on the instuctions for the timing jig, of which Cokekid has 2, he shouldn't have any problem with the job, but expect to spend 1 1/2 to 2 hours setting up and rechecking, and rechecking,till it is spot on.I don't see a problem, Patience is all that's required.What do you mean by Jake cleans them, I thought he rewound the coils?RegardsPeter Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no more Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 jake cleans out old tar only...i have one it works..but i'm not sure the point...skip inserts modern new coils in old shell night and day diff...spark like a modern 12 electronic car.. really u gotta see to believemy car does mph 80 easy on non od high gear..no strain.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray500 Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 Where is the best place or source for new points and condensers/parts for the 41 Zephyr distributors? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zazothex Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 Sorry about the bump, but I've been trying to get my Condi to life, and I've found out that I'm getting no spark from the coil; or at least no spark to all 12 plugs. I know I need to ship the assembly off to have it serviced, but I'd like to at least give it a go first to get the engine at least to make some noise once. Anyway, I'm getting power to the coil leads, 5.99V and 2.63V, but this is constant; no matter how I move the engine with the starter or by hand, these numbers and their positions never change. I'd expect the levels at the terminals to change as the dizzy moves. What could this be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest B1rdman Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 here is the way book shows it after setting points to .015lube it and leave the advance where it isw.genephotos may take a little time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest B1rdman Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 well that did not workif you want pictures showing how to adjusti can email it to yougene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zazothex Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 Just got the coil and dizzy back from Jake, look like a million bucks right now. I'm getting the proper 6 or 2.5-3v at each of the coil terminals now, as the engine rotates, so that's nice. However, I still am not getting a spark at any plug. I'm having fuel pump issues as well, but that has nothing to do with the spark itself. Any more ideas on why none? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v12lincoln Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 Check the conections at the resistor under the dash, if they are good replace your condensors, for some reason they go out very quick.Once you get spark and have it running check your dwell, I have 3 dist. set up on a sun mahine that were perfect but once bolted on the dwell chaged by 22 degrees, it would run but not as good as one set perfect. took me 4 days to get it perfect on all three when bolted on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peecher Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 Another little tip on replacing the points: I found that after market replacement points can sometimes be slightly different from the originals making it almost impossible to "synch" them. In the case where the secondary (synch'd) points open too early, no matter where the adjusting screw is you can carefully bevel the leading edge of the rubbing block on the lead points. this will give you some adjustment to synch the points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zazothex Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 Thanks to you both. I'll check the resistors. What should they read in ohms to tell me if they're good? I'm thinking they may be still good, as I'm getting 6V/3V at the coil for both terminals. I've got brand new condensors, installed by Mr. Fleming, but have a spare pair that also checked out fine. The only thing I can think of is my dizzy caps are too loose now, as they are all clean and actually need the wire bails to hold them on instead of the grime that used to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest B1rdman Posted July 16, 2010 Share Posted July 16, 2010 you can take the caps off and hold a screw driver, insulatedhandle, to the dist body and where the rotor turnsand should see a spark.that changing voltage on the coil wire of about 3 and 6 sounds like the points are ok.are you sure you did not pull wires loose in the caps?gene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest B1rdman Posted July 16, 2010 Share Posted July 16, 2010 and you can see if the rotor is turning.gene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zazothex Posted July 16, 2010 Share Posted July 16, 2010 Great idea about the screwdriver. I've double-checked the wires just to be sure. Unfortunately we've had rain for the last few days so have not been able to get to work. Have verified that the rotor is turning; thought that I just hadn't seated the thing properly.Will let you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest B1rdman Posted July 16, 2010 Share Posted July 16, 2010 most of the time if not seated the proper way.dist key to cam slot.you cann kiss the dist by.as it will break the dist body.gene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zazothex Posted July 16, 2010 Share Posted July 16, 2010 It think it's seated properly; the rotor is turning just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zazothex Posted July 18, 2010 Share Posted July 18, 2010 Update: Tried the screwdriver trick and found I could get a rather weak spark from the front rotor but none from the back. Checked the continuity of the cables, and they all check out but still no spark at the plugs -even those using the sparking rotor. Good ground at the distributor as well. I also changed the condensors to other units. I'm really hesitant to think it's my Dizzy or coil, as they've just come back from Jake.By the end of the day I was getting 2.2V / 5.9V at the coil so I put the battery on a charger overnight. I don't think a voltage drop like this would cause such a weak spark. Am I wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest B1rdman Posted July 18, 2010 Share Posted July 18, 2010 with the screw driver method i had a spark that would jumpnear a 1/2 to 1 inch gap.Jake is good i know that for a fact, but sometimes thingsgo wrong. if you had a spare coil you could try another coil.voltages sound near what to expect.and you said you had new condensers.another way to test comes to mind, if you had anygood 6 volt coil and condensor you could remove yours and put the wirefrom one side of your coilto the 6 volt test coil, then run a wire up from one set of points and hook to the test coil, . then put high tension lead from the coil close to a ground and you should see a spark.with engine turning.gene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zazothex Posted July 18, 2010 Share Posted July 18, 2010 No extra coil. Plan on trying againt this morning. If nothing, then I'll give Jake a call to ask his opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zazothex Posted July 18, 2010 Share Posted July 18, 2010 Put in freshly charged battery and got good spark at plugs. Starter turns over faster (duh) and every now and then, the spinning engine doubles its speed like it wants to react to the starting fluid and gas; about once or twice every full rotation. None of the plugs seemed very wet when pulled. As a last ditch, I've pulled the carb for a rebuild, but I don't think that will do much. However, I did do a compression check and I'm painfully low; ~60 lbs on most cylinders. I've added some MMO to each bore. I'm hoping that it's because the engine has sat for 20 years, but I'm not sure. Would the very low compression kill the ability to start? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest B1rdman Posted July 18, 2010 Share Posted July 18, 2010 squirt some oil in the cylinders, then test compression.if it jumps up it is the rings, if not maybe the valves.i dont know if 60 is enough to start or not??but i kinda think it would run.gene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter_smith Posted July 18, 2010 Share Posted July 18, 2010 zazothex.Have you renewed the rotor, or are you using the old original one, this stuff deteriorates and breaks down over the years, and your spark could be going straight through to the steel shaft that it mounts on, you can easily test for this, but you need your distibutor on the bench with the coil removed.rig up a battery, coil, and separate distributor to provide some good sparks, use this to test the rotor to see if it is leaking to earth, with the front slipring connected to the coil of your setup, when you rotate the test distributor you should only have a spark coming from the contact arm for that slipring, and nothing coming from the other arm or slipring, if there is no, or very weak spark from the arm, the rotor is leaking down to earth, test the other slipring in the same way.If this is the problem, suggest you have the rotor remanufactured with modern material (boos Herrel) rather than buy new old stock, (even if it,s never been used) which may have deteriorated in the same way on the shelf.Hope this helps.Peter Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mssr. Bwatoe Posted July 18, 2010 Share Posted July 18, 2010 Put that carb back on..jump a 12 vlt battery ""carefully"" quick get in and crank it up..it's gonna start, smoke and run bad but dont worry about that compression until you run it and get those rings lubed back up..I put jumpers right on battery...if you are nervous, run power just to starter...that engine needs cleaned out..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v12lincoln Posted July 20, 2010 Share Posted July 20, 2010 when you jump the battery with 12Volt make sure the 12 volt battery is out of what ever car your going to jump it with, just sit the 12 volt on the ground and then connect it. Ive seen them blow up if tried from car to car, not a pretty sight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zazothex Posted July 20, 2010 Share Posted July 20, 2010 Crap, you just saved my ass. I was gonna do just what you suggested not to. Actually, was just gonna jump it off my car while running, mainly because if I remove it, all the new-fangled electronic gadgets reset and stuff. This is why I prefer actual cars, not the electric shavers around nowadays.If I can get the damn things running, that is. Still worried that the MMO only raised the compression to ~50 psi in all bores. My valves all pop, so I'm thinking the sitting for 20 years just put my rings to pasture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest B1rdman Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 just curious, was your carb tied wide open when you made the compresion checks ????????if the carb is full closed i think it would lower your readings of compresiongene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zazothex Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 Good point. There is definitely an audible difference in the airflow between closed and open throttle.Tried the 12V battery to speed the starter. Oddly, nothing. Not directly to the starter or through the relay. Just got a spark, but the engine wouldn't budge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest raywilks Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 tow the car about one half city block, in gear, clutch out.this builds up compression, lubes cylinders. introduces gas into combustion chambers. turn on ignition while continuing to tow and the car will start in next ten feet. may die once or twice while digesting exrea oil and fuel, try again and it will run. betcha a cold beer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v12lincoln Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 If you can get it to turn over, pull all the plugs and let them lay where they can get grounded with the wires attached, then have someone crank the engine while you watch and see if all the plugs are firing, I know it sounds simple but I have had the wires come loose inside the caps and it would act like it wanted to run but didnt have enough cylinders firing.While the plugs are out put some WD or Kroil, some light oil in the cylinders to lube the rings so it will have a little less friction when turning.One of the members of LZOC that rebuilds starters will put 2 extra field coils in there for you if you ask, this will make it spin like 12 volts is hooked up to it. Ive done it to one of my Packards, So far Ive had no problem with my starter except solinoids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mssr. Bwatoe Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 (edited) Oh come on...If you have decent cables, strong battery and exercise due care that engine will spin like crazy...jump batt to batt be careful and do not spark. You have another issue if nothing happens..... Edited July 23, 2010 by Mssr. Bwatoe (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zazothex Posted September 2, 2010 Share Posted September 2, 2010 I must, because I get nothing but a very angry set of cables from the 6V to the block when I attach a 12v to the battery. But the thing spins like a top when using only the 6V battery, so I figure I don't need the extra boost. But turning it over again and again eventually heats up the cables anyway, and it still won't pop even once. Got spark at all 12, gas to carb that sprays with throttle. all valves move, and have suction at each bore, as well as down the carb throat. Getting annoyed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest frenchy dehoux Posted September 2, 2010 Share Posted September 2, 2010 You better of have Jake Fleming rebuild it for you he has the Sun machine to do all also checks the dwell and full advance as well as the condensors Jake is the best.FrenchyJake # (214) 333-3197 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBoz Posted September 2, 2010 Share Posted September 2, 2010 I'm thinking out loud her, but it's worth a shot -- are you sure your ignition switch is working correctly? If I don't have mine on and hit the starter button, the starter wil spin but obviously I don't get any spark to the plugs. Maybe if the ignition switch is failing, it could cause a weak / no spark to the plugs? I'm just thinking out loud here, so folks, tell me if I'm way off base... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peecher Posted September 2, 2010 Share Posted September 2, 2010 If you have spark at all 12 cylinders, gas in the carb and decent compression I would make sure the spark plugs wires are plugged in the proper places in the terminal plates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zazothex Posted September 2, 2010 Share Posted September 2, 2010 Thanks guys. I think my starter button is fine. I had my coil and Dizzy taken care of by Jake. I'm using a remote starter switch on the relay. The only think I think it can be is that I have only about 30# of pressure on the bores, with MMO added. But I think it should be enough to get at least some fire somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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