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Cokekid

Relacing V12 Distributor Points

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Deceided to replace my points and I am just waiting for my new points to arrive. While waiting I am trying to find some info on how to go about changing them.

I cannot find and directions on how I go about dismantling the distributor to replace them.

Any help would be appreciated

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Hello again

It is fairly straightforward, remove the coil assembly, and condensers from the top of the distributor,(3 screws), when you lift them off DO NOT rock them for and aft to break the gasket free, if you do you are sure to break the carbons on the side of the slip rings, (the carbons may need replacing anyway, and the sliprings may need skimming in a lathe on its own shaft if it is pitted) if the coils are stuck by the gasket, only rock them from side to side until you can lift them away.

if the distributor side plates are still in place (where the HT leads plug in, be very careful with them, they become seized in with time, gentle tapping with a piece of wood may free them, mine were siezed solid, and nothing would move them, I had to resort to very quickly heating the ally case with a welding torch, and tapping them out as quickly as possible, before the heat got to them, (whatever you do don't break them).

You can now get into the points remove the 3 screws and a splitpin and they are out, fit your new ones and set up as per the instuctions for the timing jig.

Regards

Peter Smith

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Hi Peter

I read your instuctions and it seems fairly easy to do as I already have the distributor on the bench with the coil and caps removed.

I now just have to wait until the points are delivered.

Once again thanks for replying to my problem.

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Easy is like a 60's gm car with a uniset..and a window in the cap to set dwell..these are not easy.

I am not an expert but....obviously unscrew and reattatch new parts..clean up as nec everthing..make certain the points address each other flat and flush when closing..bend if nec...

put mech back in case and adjust point gap on tip of lobe. both sides..double check fool around and recheck a couple times..the hard part (for me) is reaching in that housing and setting em. Now you have to set synch screw..(the mystery screw beneath the side plate base timing setting screw)

put in box and mail to jake flemming in texas!! he will synch and time the unit....d'oh........or

if u get a motors / chiltons manual from 40s/50s. there is a procedure to measure left vs right vs mounting holes and open close time...this is essential. other wise think of a twin engine boat with 2 engines running at diff speeds..your engine has in essence 2 dist systems in one box..operating independantly of one another..dialed in you can do 50+ in 2nd gear....or have a real dog....I bet Mr. Knapp can chime in with some wisdom..most older "sun" machines could do them..and maybe up there they are still around..not here..jake or skip in fla are only 2 guys I know of....

I used 2 timing lights once and adjusted to get single "flash" like a boat engine synchro..kinda fun to play with..I would rather drive than work on this thing anymore...

I implore you to be certain to replace both condensers...I had no luck with nos..Earle Brown has new ones..Skip in punta gorda rebuilds coils all new guts..jake cleans? them...

this dist is about the best most trouble free part on the car..do it once right, and forget it..

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Hello Jeff.

From your comments, I take it your not volunteering to do any of these for anyone then.

Seriously, I have already passed on the instuctions for the timing jig, of which Cokekid has 2, he shouldn't have any problem with the job, but expect to spend 1 1/2 to 2 hours setting up and rechecking, and rechecking,till it is spot on.

I don't see a problem, Patience is all that's required.

What do you mean by Jake cleans them, I thought he rewound the coils?

Regards

Peter Smith

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jake cleans out old tar only...i have one it works..but i'm not sure the point...skip inserts modern new coils in old shell night and day diff...spark like a modern 12 electronic car.. really u gotta see to believe

my car does mph 80 easy on non od high gear..no strain..

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Where is the best place or source for new points and condensers/parts for the 41 Zephyr distributors? Thanks!

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Sorry about the bump, but I've been trying to get my Condi to life, and I've found out that I'm getting no spark from the coil; or at least no spark to all 12 plugs. I know I need to ship the assembly off to have it serviced, but I'd like to at least give it a go first to get the engine at least to make some noise once. Anyway, I'm getting power to the coil leads, 5.99V and 2.63V, but this is constant; no matter how I move the engine with the starter or by hand, these numbers and their positions never change. I'd expect the levels at the terminals to change as the dizzy moves. What could this be?

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here is the way book shows it after setting points to .015

lube it and leave the advance where it isw.

gene

photos may take a little time.

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well that did not work

if you want pictures showing how to adjust

i can email it to you

gene

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Just got the coil and dizzy back from Jake, look like a million bucks right now. I'm getting the proper 6 or 2.5-3v at each of the coil terminals now, as the engine rotates, so that's nice. However, I still am not getting a spark at any plug. I'm having fuel pump issues as well, but that has nothing to do with the spark itself. Any more ideas on why none?

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Check the conections at the resistor under the dash, if they are good replace your condensors, for some reason they go out very quick.

Once you get spark and have it running check your dwell, I have 3 dist. set up on a sun mahine that were perfect but once bolted on the dwell chaged by 22 degrees, it would run but not as good as one set perfect. took me 4 days to get it perfect on all three when bolted on.

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Another little tip on replacing the points: I found that after market replacement points can sometimes be slightly different from the originals making it almost impossible to "synch" them. In the case where the secondary (synch'd) points open too early, no matter where the adjusting screw is you can carefully bevel the leading edge of the rubbing block on the lead points. this will give you some adjustment to synch the points.

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Thanks to you both. I'll check the resistors. What should they read in ohms to tell me if they're good? I'm thinking they may be still good, as I'm getting 6V/3V at the coil for both terminals. I've got brand new condensors, installed by Mr. Fleming, but have a spare pair that also checked out fine. The only thing I can think of is my dizzy caps are too loose now, as they are all clean and actually need the wire bails to hold them on instead of the grime that used to.

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you can take the caps off and hold a screw driver, insulated

handle, to the dist body and where the rotor turns

and should see a spark.

that changing voltage on the coil wire of about 3 and 6

sounds like the points are ok.

are you sure you did not pull wires loose in the caps?

gene

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Great idea about the screwdriver. I've double-checked the wires just to be sure. Unfortunately we've had rain for the last few days so have not been able to get to work. Have verified that the rotor is turning; thought that I just hadn't seated the thing properly.

Will let you know.

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most of the time if not seated the proper way.

dist key to cam slot.

you cann kiss the dist by.

as it will break the dist body.

gene

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Update: Tried the screwdriver trick and found I could get a rather weak spark from the front rotor but none from the back. Checked the continuity of the cables, and they all check out but still no spark at the plugs -even those using the sparking rotor. Good ground at the distributor as well. I also changed the condensors to other units. I'm really hesitant to think it's my Dizzy or coil, as they've just come back from Jake.

By the end of the day I was getting 2.2V / 5.9V at the coil so I put the battery on a charger overnight. I don't think a voltage drop like this would cause such a weak spark. Am I wrong?

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with the screw driver method i had a spark that would jump

near a 1/2 to 1 inch gap.

Jake is good i know that for a fact, but sometimes things

go wrong. if you had a spare coil you could try another coil.

voltages sound near what to expect.

and you said you had new condensers.

another way to test comes to mind, if you had any

good 6 volt coil and condensor you could remove yours and put the wire

from one side of your coil

to the 6 volt test coil, then run a wire up from one set of points and hook to the test coil, .

then put high tension lead from the coil close to a ground and you should see a spark.

with engine turning.

gene

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No extra coil. Plan on trying againt this morning. If nothing, then I'll give Jake a call to ask his opinion.

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Put in freshly charged battery and got good spark at plugs. Starter turns over faster (duh) and every now and then, the spinning engine doubles its speed like it wants to react to the starting fluid and gas; about once or twice every full rotation. None of the plugs seemed very wet when pulled. As a last ditch, I've pulled the carb for a rebuild, but I don't think that will do much.

However, I did do a compression check and I'm painfully low; ~60 lbs on most cylinders. I've added some MMO to each bore. I'm hoping that it's because the engine has sat for 20 years, but I'm not sure. Would the very low compression kill the ability to start?

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squirt some oil in the cylinders, then test compression.

if it jumps up it is the rings, if not maybe the valves.

i dont know if 60 is enough to start or not??

but i kinda think it would run.

gene

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zazothex.

Have you renewed the rotor, or are you using the old original one, this stuff deteriorates and breaks down over the years, and your spark could be going straight through to the steel shaft that it mounts on, you can easily test for this, but you need your distibutor on the bench with the coil removed.

rig up a battery, coil, and separate distributor to provide some good sparks, use this to test the rotor to see if it is leaking to earth, with the front slipring connected to the coil of your setup, when you rotate the test distributor you should only have a spark coming from the contact arm for that slipring, and nothing coming from the other arm or slipring, if there is no, or very weak spark from the arm, the rotor is leaking down to earth, test the other slipring in the same way.

If this is the problem, suggest you have the rotor remanufactured with modern material (boos Herrel) rather than buy new old stock, (even if it,s never been used) which may have deteriorated in the same way on the shelf.

Hope this helps.

Peter Smith

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