Identifying Pre-war senior Packards?

[cooter9]

As I'm still looking for a pre-war senior Packard, is there an exact way to identify these particular cars? How do you tell models etc. I've seen a 1930 726 and 733 and can't really tell any difference. That is just the example I can think of for now. Appreciate the help

[West Peterson]

That's because neither of those two are Senior models. The Seniors will have four hood vent doors, as opposed to the louvers of the lesser models. Even if a lesser car had the optional doors, there would only be three. The 745 (and 734)front fenders look like the 1931 models... long and swoopy. Also, the hood ornament base for the 745 and 734 is triangular, whereas the rest are round. Wheel size for the lesser cars is 20 inch, while the Seniors have 19-inch.

[cooter9]

Let me keep this simple for me. The 733 and 726 looked almost exact to me, so nhow do I tell the difference in those two?

[Guest 1926pack]

One is longer than the other. I think the 733 has a 133 inch wheelbase and the other has a shorter wheelbase.

[tbirdman]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: West Peterson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That's because neither of those two are Senior models. </div></div>

I always thought Senior referred to the all the cars that were not Juniors 110s, 115s and 120s.

The best way to learn is buy a bunch of books and start reading.

Here's and excellent one to start off with.

In my limited knowledge, I can tell tell the difference by:

1. Any pre 9th series has a flat front grill

2. 9th series has a v-grill and no skirted fenders except for the light eight which has a snow plow front grill.

3. 10th series has skirted fenders by front feder does come all the way down.

4. 11th series same as 10th but front fender comes down further on wheel.

5. 12th and later series: radiator is v'd and slanted

Just need to study the cars and after a while you get to know them especially the ones you are interested in.

[mrpushbutton]

In the 7th-12th series there were Packard eights and Packard super eights (we're ommiting the twelve where applicable as we know it is a senior car) The Packard eight is not considered a senior car and the super eight is. THis distinction existed before the advent of the 120, 115 and 110 models. If I'nm not mistaken the Packard eight line is not recognized by the CCCA as a "Full Classic" (registered trademark).

[West Peterson]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mrpushbutton</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> If I'nm not mistaken the Packard eight line is not recognized by the CCCA as a "Full Classic" (registered trademark). </div></div>

You are partly mistaken. All Packard Eights (before 1935) are Classic. I'm sure you were referring to the 120 models from 1935 on, which are only Classic if fitted with a custom body and have been accepted on a "please apply" basis.

It's hard to tell the difference between a 726 and a 733. As mentioned, one is longer than the other by about six inches. Otherwise they're the same.

[Clipper47]

The distinction between "Junior" and "Senior" Packards began with the introduction in 1935 of the 120 to distinguish this high volume model from the more expensive line. The confusion about the "Eight" model not being a CCCA Classic may be because the "120" model was given the "Eight" designation in 1937. The "Eight" model prior to 1937 was a Senior car and thus is a "Full Classic".

[Guest imported_Speedster]

I sure am glad you guys explained all of that.

I was Dreading, even Trying to do it myself. LOL

[tbirdman]

Here's the list of CCCA "approved classics".

Packard All 12 cylinder models 1932 through 1939

1923-1924 Models 226 and 233

All 1st Series 8 cylinder

1925 - 1934 All sixes and eights

1935 Models 1200 through 1205, 1207 and 1208

1936 Models 1400 through 1405, 1407 and 1408

1937 Models 1500 through 1502 and 1506 through 1508

1938 Models 1603 through 1605, 1607 and 1608

1939 Models 1703, 1705, 1707, and 1708

1940 Models 1803, 1804, 1805, 1806, 1807, and 1808

1941 Models 1903, 1904, 1905, 1906, 1907, and 1908

1942 Models 2023, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2055, 2006,

2007, and 2008

1946 - 1947 Models 2103, 2106 and 2126

All Darrin-bodied

[Guest imported_Speedster]

Thanks for the List.

Can someone tell me why they Don't consider Packards built before 1922 to be Classics ???

Do the Snobs at CCCA consider those to just be 'Old Cars' ?

[tbirdman]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Speedster</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for the List.

Can someone tell me why they Don't consider Packards built before 1922 to be Classics ???

Do the Snobs at CCCA consider those to just be 'Old Cars' ? </div></div>

From the CCCA web site...

"One of the most common questions asked on this Web Site is: "What exactly is a Classic Car?" The Club defines CCCA Classics or Full Classic™ Cars as "...fine or unusual motor cars which were built between and including the years 1925 to 1948. (Some cars built prior to 1925 that are virtually identical to a 1925 model that is recognized by the Club are currently being accepted on a "Please Apply" basis). All of these are very special cars which are distinguished by their respective fine design, high engineering standards and superior workmanship." They were usually quite expensive when new with relatively low production figures. You won't find your Mom's '72 Plymouth Duster or your Grandfather's Model A Ford in the ranks of CCCA. We applaud other clubs who do recognize these cars and recognize that owning one can be a lot of fun, but they are not what CCCA is all about. "

[West Peterson]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Speedster</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can someone tell me why they Don't consider Packards built before 1922 to be Classics ??? Do the Snobs at CCCA consider those to just be 'Old Cars' ? </div></div>

Rick

The Ford Model A club doesn't allow in anything but Model As. And I don't think I have to go too far out on a limb to assume that the Camaro club doesn't allow Mustangs. Oh... and the Packard clubs don't allow in anything but Packards. SNOBS! All of 'em!!

[Guest imported_Speedster]

West,

Are you saying that the CCCA doesn't consider Packards built before 1922 to be 'Real' Packards ???

If that's True and that's Not Snobish, then I'd like to know what is ???

Or are you only refering to the Snob title?

Everyone else calls them Snobs, so I thought maybe that was really a sign of Affection, that all CCCA members have accepted, since they don't seem to be changing their ways or definitions?

[West Peterson]

I'm not sure what "ways or definitions" that you think need changing. They started a club the way they wanted it. If they don't want to change, they don't have to. But, in fact, they HAVE changed over the years. Several years ago they opened up cars to include 1948, and most recently they opened up to include cars as early as 1919.

The Classic Car Club identifies the "era" 1925-1942 as the "Classic" era, and cars accepted into the club must be the finest of the fine from that era. It most certainly has nothing to do with Packard "not being good enough" or any other qualified vehicle for that matter, as they certainly fit the "criteria" well before 1925. The line was drawn at 1925, and the club has adjusted to include cars that are the same, going back as far as 1919 in some cases and up to 1948. They did NOT open the door to makes or models that were not built during the Classic era. That would be like opening up the Ford Model A club to accept Chevrolets. It's just not what they're about.

I guess I misunderstood your use of the word snob. I realize and fully accept that the CCCA is a "country club" club... that's exactly what the founding members wanted and it's what they unofficially called it from the beginning.

I, for one, do not like the word snob.

[1935Packard]

In (modest) defense of the CCCA, my understanding is that the club was formed when no one was interested in the 1925-1948 cars. They were just used cars, not antiques. From the club website history:

************************

The year was 1951. Owners of Packards, Cadillacs and the like - vintage late 1920's to early 1930's - found to their chagrin, upon arriving at old car meets, that they were not eligible to participate because the vehicles they were driving were "too modern." The Antique Automobile Club of America, the nation's oldest organization in the hobby, had relegated the enthusiasts' chosen wheels to Class 19, designated "Tow Cars." Since these vehicles were, to their minds more properly defined by the term "Classic", a new organization seemed called for.

************************

[Guest imported_Speedster]

I was really just having a little fun with the Snob title,

But I also have Not ever understood why pre '22 are not considered classics at CCCA. I realize that's 'Just the Way they Did it', but as Spock would say "There is No Logic'. I also realize this question has been Hashed Too many times, so I'll accept it the way it is and drop it. Sorry I dug it up again.

[Rusty_OToole]

There seems to be a gap between pre 1915 (antique) and post 1925 (classic). This bothered me until I looked into the matter.

pre 1915 was the pioneer era of motoring. The cars were colorful, trimmed in brass and leather, and often had novel construction features.

By 1915 the car had become an appliance. Look at even the expensive cars of the early 20s. Usually black boxy sedans and touring cars with little or no decorative trim, and that in dull nickel or aluminum.

They have all the charm and style of a Thompson machine gun.Expensive cars like Lincoln and Hudson seem to be patterned after the Model T.

It seems practicality was the byword.

Around 1925 things started to change. Bright colors and chrome came in. Styling became important to car buyers. It could be taken for granted that any good make of car would provide satisfactory transportation, style comfort beauty and performance became selling points.

The building of custom luxury cars continued until the mid 30s when the mass produced models offered practically as good a car as the custom built jobs, at a much lower price.

Besides once the depression came in flaunting your money was in bad taste and possibly dangerous as well.

The last full classics died out just before WW2 and never came back. To stretch a point the 1948 Lincoln Continental was let in as a continuation of the prewar models but that was it.

So there you have the special and unique cars of the pre 1915 era and of the 1925 to 1948 era recognised by their own fan clubs, with the 1915 to 1925s left in limbo.