1956 Packard buying questions

[LINC400]

I have a post under General Discussion about buying a '56 400. I hate to repeat the whole thing again, but wanted as much exposure as possible because I need answers a.s.a.p.

[R W Burgess]

400's post!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am looking into buying a 1956 Packard 400. I can't afford one that needs nothing. So I will have to buy a project car and fix it up gradually. I know Packard's history, but not mechanicals. How big of a problem and expense are the following issues?

Levelizer doesn't work.

Transmission slow to respond at first, seemed ok later. Pushbuttons worked fine.

White smoke out of both exhaust pipes when first started. Seemed ok later.

Front windshield cracked.

Steering wheel at permanent 45 degree angle. Possible front suspension work needed.

Power windows sluggish, one doesn't work.

Wonderbar radio doesn't work. I'll probably hide a cd player in the trunk later, but it would be nice if I could get the original to work also, but not a big concern. Just curious if it is worth fixing.

</div></div>

[mrpushbutton]

Most Torsion-Leveling problems are control system related. Does it try? does it make any sound at all? is the switch under the Instrument panel on? (on=swith toward center of car)

Trans: has the car sat for a long time? describe the shifts

White smoke: pull a few spark plugs and see what they look like, look at the engine oil, see what's going on down there

Power windows--could be a lot of things, they are not that hard to fix. They are most likely half a century old and need some tlc, lubrication and excercise. Sometimes the rear quarter windows can get out of joint (square) where they mount to the body and are fighting as they attempt to work. some tweaking and they work better--sometimes.

The Wonderbar is definately worth fixing--the guy in florida who completely replaces the capactors and checks/replaces tubes installs an FM converter, I know a few happy customers.

Happy to hear the pushbuttons work.

[R W Burgess]

400 post;

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> "I like only 100% stock antique cars."

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #CC0000">I can afford to buy and restore only one car. So I asked here and on another forum some questions about a 1956 Packard I was thinking about buying. Obviously I wasn't expecting a complete diagnosis and estimate, but some comments and opinions would have been useful. I got one reply on each forum. Apparently everyone can get on their soapbox and preach their opinion about rod vs. stock. But only one person on each forum can be bothered to try to actually help someone that wants to save a stock car. Thank you to those two that replied.</span></span>

Also I have read the post about having wills with other club members because there is no one to leave all of your cars to. How about making friends with someone that would really appreciate one of your cars and giving them a break on the price? I will not be buying the '56 Packard because everything I have researched shows that he is asking $2K more than what the car is worth. I do not have that $2K, and if I did, I would want to spend it on restoring it, not an inflated price. He has 40 cars. He says this was one of the first cars that he bought, and has owned it for 35 years. I thought it might mean something to him if I promised I would never rod it or put goofy 22" wheels on it. But it is more important for him to try and get that extra $2K that it is not worth. If some rodder wants to overpay for it, have at it. I tried. </div></div>

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #CC0000">400's</span></span> post from the "Resto Rod" thread in red above is disturbing to me. As he said, there are many on this forum that have no problem with posting opinions of rods versus stock antique cars. So, he only received one post of help from John. I know nothing about Packards or I would have made some kind of comment.

On the other hand 400(could you post your first name?), since you and the owner of the Packard in question, are within $2000.00 of a sale, why not try to get him to split the difference. You never know, he may take the deal, and you'll own the Packard you really want.

Wayne

[LINC400]

My name is Mark. Check the resto-rod post again for description of the car. That was negotiated down from $7500. He refused to go any lower. Thanks for the support.

[Rusty_OToole]

Anyone who follows this board knows I will help out if I can. In this case I backed off because I'm no expert on V8 Packards. I suspect most of us are in the same boat.

Linc400 in my book you are a twerp. You got one good answer. What more do you want? How many 56 Packard experts do you think there are?

I don't like your tone and I don't like your whiney attitude.

As long as we are being utterly frank with each other.

[R W Burgess]

Yes Mark, I saw that you missed the sale from the other post. I didn't realize he wanted so much for the car, especially in the condition you stated.

You'll find another, I'm sure!

Wayne

[Rusty_OToole]

I will also say, if you came to me with that attitude I wouldn't feel like giving you any bargains either.

[LINC400]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rusty_OToole</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will also say, if you came to me with that attitude I wouldn't feel like giving you any bargains either. </div></div>

And what attitude did I have? Four months ago I emailed him about another car ('56 Executive). It was out of my price range ($11,000). So I said I'd rather have a '56 400 for that. He said he had one and wanted $5000 for it. I said I was interested. I kept asking him if he had pictures once or twice a month for 4 months. He finally sent them. He did this quickie paint job and wants $7500 now. Plus there were all kinds of problems he didn't tell me about. I did all my research and said I was interested, but not at $7500. How rude of me to want to get it for the original price he was asking for it with a quickie paint job and $3K more in repairs needed.

Since I was asking about a Packard on Packard forums, I thought somebody might know something more than I did. Especially since I wasn't even born until long after Packard had been out of business. I actually got most of my help from someone that knows nothing about Packards, only GM's.

[HH56]

LINC400, sorry if everyone ignored you but your descriptions were a little vague. We could go thru the litany of possible problems with the TL from the simple such as is it on, fuses blown or brake lite sw NG to the extreme like a limit switch failed and the compensator self destructed--all you said was it didn't work and nothing as to what, if anything, it tried to do. The steering wheel could have been reinstalled off the shaft center by a spline or 2 or the control valve geometry could be misadjusted. Its just kinda hard to guess all the possibilities. The windows could be as simple as dirty or binding mechanism to bad switch or wire to burned out or sheared shaft motor. If you do find another 55-6 you are interested in, then a bit more info would help along lines some of the other posters asked and I'm sure more people would be glad to offer an opinion.

[LINC400]

The car I was interested in was halfway across the country from me. I had a friend that lives an hour away from it check it out for me. He knows nothing about Packards. So all I had was the info he told me. So there was no going back to check additional things. The response I got from Mr. Pushbutton was perfect. In fact I was hoping he would be one of the replies. HH56's reply also would have been helpful. I can understand not replying if it is a subject you know nothing about. In fact I hope you are not giving advice if it something you know nothing about. I can also understand if guy X basically said everything and there isn't much more to add. But then it is still helpful to hear, "Yes I agree with X" I am not attacking any one person. No one is obligated to reply or help me in any way. But I bet if anybody on here had to make a quick huge financial decision on a car, they would be disappointed with only one reply also. Thank you for the offer of future help. When possible, I will try to provide better info. I also hope the next one will be close enough for me to look at myself.

[mrpushbutton]

LINC400/Mark--By your description I too would have dropped any consideration of the car like a bad habit. I would rather have a jewel in the rough (like my '56 400 in my garage right now) than a car that someone "improved" for the purposes of getting more money in the marketplace.

One thing about the '56 models to be wary of is the electrical systems--not from the maunfacturer's (Packard's) standpoint but for the fact that Shell station monkeys, garage mechanics and backyard boys all lack the ability to take something like this car, as it was built and just deal with it as it is, which is perfectly workable. These cars have a lot of s_____y cut 'n splice hackery, goofy auto parts store switches, blue-splice hell, orange wire nut hell, electrician's tape hell. It can all be straighted out, I've done it, but I would rather have not needed to.

Every one of these cars is now half a century old and all of the power gizmos might need a little attention. There is a better car out there for you--keep looking. Try to go for a ride and perhaps dive another V-8 Packard with T-L, then you'll really want one.

[Guest AlK]

Linc400:

Where are you located and just exactly what kind of condition car are you looking for. Also any particular model of Packard in the 55/56 line.

[mrpushbutton]

He specifically wants a '56 400

[Rusty_OToole]

The attitude that you are supposed to get everything you want handed to you on a silver plate with whipped cream and a cherry on top the minute you ask for it.

[LINC400]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rusty_OToole</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Linc400 in my book you are a twerp. You got one good answer. What more do you want? How many 56 Packard experts do you think there are?

I don't like your tone and I don't like your whiney attitude.

As long as we are being utterly frank with each other. </div></div>

Have you read my post under "Biggest automotive mistake you have made"? Did you read the description of the car I wanted to buy? I don't think that asking a few questions about a Packard on Packard forum or expecting a reasonable price on a car is whiney or expecting the world handed to me on on a silver platter. Perhaps I was in a pissy mood when I wrote my original response. I imagine someone else in my place might have been also. However, I never personally attacked anyone or called anyone names. In fact I complemented the people that did help me or offered to in the future. I don't think that I am the one being immature.

Most of the people in the Packard or Lincoln clubs welcome me with open arms because they are thrilled to see someone under sixty with an interest in the stock preservation of those cars. However, there are always one or two that find it necessary to berate younger guys because they cannot possibly know as much as they do. They weren't around when the cars were built, and haven't owned 20 of them. So if the younger guy disagrees with them, they can't possibly be right and must be put in their place. Then these same older guys wonder why no young guys want to join the Hudson, Packard, Pierce Arrow or whatever club. You remind me of one of those guys.

Aside from any Packard info I got, I think what I have learned here is whose opinion matters, and whose doesn't.

[LINC400]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AlK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Linc400:

Where are you located and just exactly what kind of condition car are you looking for. Also any particular model of Packard in the 55/56 line. </div></div>

Yes, I specifically want a 1956 400. It must have at least power windows. I would like a pushbutton transmission, but can overlook it if everything else is good.

I can only spend $5000 - $10,000, hoping to keep it closer to $7000 for a little better condition and leaving me some money for immediate repairs. My idea is to get one that is basically mechanically sound, has mostly good chrome, and needs paint, but not excessive bodywork, and needs a complete interior. I figure that way I can drive it for a few years and enjoy it while making sure all the mechanicals are taken care of while saving up for paint and interior. Since I am picky about color, I figure I can then paint it whatever color I want with whatever color interior and fabrics. That way I won't have to rule out one that has everything else I want, but is in a color I hate. Of course it will be finished in an appropriate 1956 Packard color combo.

I am near Chicago. I prefer to be able to look at it myself, and have gone as far as 5 hours into Iowa and to Detroit to look at cars. But I also have some contacts that will go out and look at one for me in other states that are too far for me to travel. That is what I did with this last one. However I am specifically lacking contacts in California and New York, where Packards seem to keep popping up.

[Rusty_OToole]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LINC400</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rusty_OToole</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Linc400 in my book you are a twerp. You got one good answer. What more do you want? How many 56 Packard experts do you think there are?

I don't like your tone and I don't like your whiney attitude.

As long as we are being utterly frank with each other. </div></div>

Have you read my post under "Biggest automotive mistake you have made"? Did you read the description of the car I wanted to buy? I don't think that asking a few questions about a Packard on Packard forum or expecting a reasonable price on a car is whiney or expecting the world handed to me on on a silver platter. Perhaps I was in a pissy mood when I wrote my original response. I imagine someone else in my place might have been also. However, I never personally attacked anyone or called anyone names. In fact I complemented the people that did help me or offered to in the future. I don't think that I am the one being immature.

Most of the people in the Packard or Lincoln clubs welcome me with open arms because they are thrilled to see someone under sixty with an interest in the stock preservation of those cars. However, there are always one or two that find it necessary to berate younger guys because they cannot possibly know as much as they do. They weren't around when the cars were built, and haven't owned 20 of them. So if the younger guy disagrees with them, they can't possibly be right and must be put in their place. Then these same older guys wonder why no young guys want to join the Hudson, Packard, Pierce Arrow or whatever club. You remind me of one of those guys.

Aside from any Packard info I got, I think what I have learned here is whose opinion matters, and whose doesn't.

</div></div>

I don't mind you asking for help and I don't mind you trying to get a good car at a bargain.

It's the complaining when you don't get what you want immediately that bothers me.

Hope that is plain enough.

Now stop trying to put words in my mouth and grow up.

[Guest AlK]

Linc400:

Thanks for the info. Hope you find what you are looking for. I know they are out there, it's just a case of finding them. I will keep my eyes open and if I run into something like that I will let you know. The reason I asked is because I have something that might have been of interest, but you are looking for something specific and what I have is not it. Sometimes people say they want this and never let on that something else would be of interest. I just felt it was better to ask the question than to assume.

Good Luck:

Alk

[LINC400]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rusty_OToole</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LINC400</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Linc400 in my book you are a twerp. You got one good answer. What more do you want? How many 56 Packard experts do you think there are?

I don't like your tone and I don't like your whiney attitude.

As long as we are being utterly frank with each other. </div></div>

I don't mind you asking for help and I don't mind you trying to get a good car at a bargain.

It's the complaining when you don't get what you want immediately that bothers me.

Hope that is plain enough.

Now stop trying to put words in my mouth and grow up. </div></div>

Since my Mark V that I loved and cherished was rear-ended and totalled last May by an 18 year old idiot with no insurance, I have found 3 '56 400's to look at.

#1 was the one I wanted. However I offered the guy cash on the spot and he refused to take it or listen to any offers to take it off Ebay. It had only one other bid and sold for only $500 over the opening bid. The guy that bought it pays way too much for everything because he has to have the first one listed immediately. I know because I checked all his auction wins before and after the car. So even if I bid higher, I doubt that it would have done any good.

#2 was in such bad shape, I couldn't believe it started. However it could not be driven. If it was used as a parts car, I think the only thing you could sell would be the rear window. Every other part on the car was rusted, pitted, cracked, dented or otherwise useless.

#3 was the subject of this post. Again nowhere near pristine. So I refused to pay an additional $2000 for a paint job a few steps up from a roller job. He even told me he sprayed it in the garage himself.

The rest have been either way out of my price range or worse than car #2. So I will wait for the next one to come up in 2-6 months or whenever it shows up. I don't think that is complaining that I don't get what I want immediately.

If you are referring to my wanting answers immediately. Yes, I did need them a.s.a.p. The seller set up the time for my friend to look at it. My friend wanted to go there days sooner. He said no. Then he called me the day before my friend was going there demanding that I guarantee him I was going to buy it or he was going to sell it to someone else. I said I have been asking you for 4 months for pictures and info, and my friend will be there tomorrow. I'd appreciate it if you could wait one day before you sell it to someone else.

My friend's initial response was "Forget it". Knowing my friend, I thought great, I'm going to miss out on the twin to the Packard in #1 because Mr. Fussy doesn't like it. I posted here with the items of biggest concern to me hoping for another opinion quick. The seller then kept calling me asking me if I was going to buy it before my friend could even email me the pictures. It was very frustrating because I could see that there were lots of people on here debating topics of no consequence, but I got only one reply on something I needed to decide on immediately. Any replies I did not get before late Sat afternoon were of no use to me in deciding whether to buy this car. However, by that time, I had all the info from my friend that showed it was no comparison to Packard #1 even though it was the same price.

Plus I have a very sick pet that was doing spectacular for over a month until this past weekend. She had a massive relapse during the time I was deciding whether or not to buy the Packard. That will take a big chunk from my Packard money. I didn't think anyone needed to know about that, but it did affect my stress level.

I find it amusing that I am actually on much better terms with the seller than I am with you. Someone that had nothing to do with the entire transaction.

Again, I do not think I am the one being immature. You personally attacked someone you know nothing about, about a situation you know nothing about, during a time when they were under a lot of stress. And you continue to do so while providing no useful information. I doubt there is anything I can say to change your mind. So I will listen to the others on here instead.

[LINC400]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AlK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Linc400:

Thanks for the info. Hope you find what you are looking for. I know they are out there, it's just a case of finding them. I will keep my eyes open and if I run into something like that I will let you know. The reason I asked is because I have something that might have been of interest, but you are looking for something specific and what I have is not it. Sometimes people say they want this and never let on that something else would be of interest. I just felt it was better to ask the question than to assume.</div></div>

Thanks. I do not want a 4 door. And I had a bad experience with a '56 Clipper before so I really don't want another one, altho I like them better than the Executive. If I found a great deal on a '55 400, '56 Executive, or '56 Clipper (2 doors only) I might consider it. However chances are I'd have to pay the same $5K to $10K for it. So for that price, I'd rather have the '56 400 I really want even if it takes longer to fix it up.

[Tom M]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LINC400</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Plus I have a very sick pet that was doing spectacular for over a month until this past weekend.</div></div>Linc400, Sorry to hear about your pet. Hope all goes well with your pet and Packard Hunting.

[Packard8]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LINC400</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> It was very frustrating because I could see that there were lots of people on here debating topics of no consequence, but <span style="font-weight: bold">*I*</span> got only one reply on something <span style="font-weight: bold">*I* </span>needed </div></div>

Ah....I see, your needs are the only topic of any consequence....

[Guest AlK]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LINC400</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AlK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Linc400:

Thanks for the info. Hope you find what you are looking for. I know they are out there, it's just a case of finding them. I will keep my eyes open and if I run into something like that I will let you know. The reason I asked is because I have something that might have been of interest, but you are looking for something specific and what I have is not it. Sometimes people say they want this and never let on that something else would be of interest. I just felt it was better to ask the question than to assume.</div></div>

Thanks. I do not want a 4 door. And I had a bad experience with a '56 Clipper before so I really don't want another one, altho I like them better than the Executive. If I found a great deal on a '55 400, '56 Executive, or '56 Clipper (2 doors only) I might consider it. However chances are I'd have to pay the same $5K to $10K for it. So for that price, I'd rather have the '56 400 I really want even if it takes longer to fix it up. </div></div>

Not to belabor the issue, you want what you want, but I

re-read my post, I did not say I had a 4dr. However I have only 1 of the cars that you say you would consider and it's not for sale.

Good luck on your search.

[LINC400]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Packard8</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LINC400</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> It was very frustrating because I could see that there were lots of people on here debating topics of no consequence, but <span style="font-weight: bold">*I*</span> got only one reply on something <span style="font-weight: bold">*I* </span>needed </div></div>

Ah....I see, your needs are the only topic of any consequence....

</div></div>

Amazing how you can find one comment in everything I said, including agreeing with you in another thread, to take out of context to suit your point of view.

No, a topic like "Rod vs. Stock" has no consequences. It is fun to debate on something like that. I do it myself. But it is not like someone asking if a car is worth buying so that they don't end up upside down in it. Or asking if they are installing or removing a part correctly that can have very bad consequences if the wrong decision is made. I am sure I am not the only person that has ever asked questions about buying a car on here. And I'm sure that I am not the only one that ever had a deadline. Any car on Ebay that someone is interested in has a deadline.

[LINC400]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AlK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Not to belabor the issue, you want what you want, but I

re-read my post, I did not say I had a 4dr. However I have only 1 of the cars that you say you would consider and it's not for sale.

Good luck on your search. </div></div>

It was just a comment in general. The 4 doors seem to be much more plentiful and less expensive. There is nothing wrong with them, but I am just not interested in them.

Thanks

[LINC400]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Packin31</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LINC400</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Plus I have a very sick pet that was doing spectacular for over a month until this past weekend.</div></div>Linc400, Sorry to hear about your pet. Hope all goes well with your pet and Packard Hunting. </div></div>

Thank you.

[tbirdman]

Linc400-For ASAP answers, you need to hire an appraiser.

I've been on this board for over 2 years, and sometimes I don't receive an answer. I get mad? No, as I understand this is an informal group that does have some knowledge and we do have a common interest in Packards/cars. The participants are under no obligation to provide answers to anyone. Hang around, join the conversations, but don't expect us to be an instant answer service.

[Packard8]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LINC400</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> No, a topic like "Rod vs. Stock" has no consequences. </div></div>

I believe what you are saying is that the topic had no interest or consequence to <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">YOU</span></span> at the time and you got pi$$ed that the forum didn't collectively drop what they were doing to answer your post....at least that's the impression you convey to me.

I believe the issue of Rod v Stock has <span style="font-style: italic">major</span> consequences for the future of the hobby. Consequences far beyond soliciting opinions on a single car listed on eBay.

I am reminded of the old adage:

"When you find yourself in a hole, the first order of business is to stop digging"

.

[LINC400]

I believe very little can be accomplished with a topic like "Rod vs. Stock" on here. People will voice their opinions, which is fun to do. But I doubt anyone will change anyone's mind. The rod guys will continue to rod them, and the stock guys will be upset about it. I don't like them being rodded either. But when multiple TV shows are promoting the "pimp my ride" cars, and goofy customs sell at Barret Jackson for ridiculous amounts, one topic in favor of stock is not going to change things. Especially on a website that is going to be read mainly by people in favor of stock.

However, you can help one person, and one car (and no it doesn't have to be me) by providing a quick answer when they need it. That was my point.

I belong to a forum for my sick pet and another car forum. And when people ask questions, they get multiple quick replies. Maybe that is not the case here. However, if you continue to berate someone because of one post, you are not going to win any converts over to your side.

I tried to explain my situation. And stated I did not expect anyone to jump thru hoops for me. But apparently that is not good enough. There are some good people on here, so I will try sticking it out a little longer. But if all that happens is that I keep getting told how I think everything should revolve around me, I see no reason to stay here and defend your "stock" arguments.

[bernardi]

Let us all leave the heated arguments and innunendos to the politicians. They practice more, are better at it and seem to enjoy it. I don't.

Bernardi