Rare cars... What is rare?

[Guest oldsmobile1915]

I get a kick out of this... Some people say "My Camaro is rare because only 742 were this color orange" (and I wonder, how many Camaros were made?)

or

"Only 12,212 Dynamic 88 Convertible were made. That amounts to all of 2.7% of Olds' total 1962 output." I ask myself, “if 2.7% of the 88's were convertibles and there were that many, then a total production of 88's must be huge?!?!” I think these car owners can find parts to keep it running!

Don't get me wrong, these are truly wonderful cars, and great people too. I love what they are doing with the cars and should keep up the great work. I just want to know how is rare defined???

How about a 1915 Oldsmobile Model 42? Only 1,319 Model 42s were ever produced of a total vehicle production of 7,696 for Oldsmobile that year. After 2 world wars, time, rust / rot / neglect... not many survive.

To the best of my knowledge, I believe AACA has 7 known Oldsmobile model 42s registered with the organization. In my research, I know of 10 total left.... Assuming that there are a couple unknown model 42s left in a barn somewhere... that leaves us with a grand total of 12 or so?? It's difficult to find parts to restore them, or books to even describe how to drive them.

So what makes a car rare? or how would you define a rare car??? Please share your views, because I would like to know what you think!

[Pontiac59]

Pontiac made almost 400,000 cars in 1959, but only about 8000 Star Chief 2dr post sedans. That model is a rare '59 Pontiac. It's more than the entire production of 1960 Edsel or 1961 DeSoto. All of those are rare cars.

Generally, hard to find is less than 15,000 built and rare, less than 1500 built, but that's just my opinion. I don't think there is an official definition, and even if there is, people abuse all these old terms just like "classic" and "original" so much it would hardly matter. I saw an eBay auction for a "rare" 56 Dodge 4dr sedan - I've seen probably 30 or 40 of those over the last few years between cars I actually saw, and ads for sale. That's one of the most common body styles for that year Dodge. A Convertible, would be rare.

[rocketraider]

Anymore, most claims of "rare" cars are like a "rare" steak- HALF COOKED!

Also, a rare car or option is often one that no one wanted when they were new, hence low production.

I've generally gone by these guidelines on mass produced cars: if 5% or less of total production has survived, then you can consider a car rare. Any vehicle that survived the WW2 scrap metal drives has to be considered rare. Any stick-shift luxury vehicle from about 1950-on is a rare piece.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"Some people say "My Camaro is rare because only 742 were this color orange"</div></div> Again- usually because it was a color nobody wanted, or that the car truly did not look good in!

[joe_padavano]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rocketraider</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Also, a rare car or option is often one that no one wanted when they were new, hence low production.</div></div>

Amen Glenn.

I always laugh at Cutlass/442 ads that talk up the "rare" Sport Coupe (2 dr post) model. As you correctly point out, these were rare because the body style was unpopular. Green interiors were thankfully rare also...

[Guest Debby Soucia]

To "me" :

"rare" is some thing you don't see at a show. OK, some are not that rare but it's not like other cars that will fill a row at any show. We have a 1927 hupmobile that is considered "rare" as in the hupmobile club they have 20 worldwide and we know of a two more not in the club. We have a 1957 Ford laundry truck that we have never seen another one at any show. We have a 1938 Chrylser Royal that is not real "rare" but have you seen many at any show? We have seen 2 at one show. We have a 1968 Chrysler 300 convertable that they made 2,161 and we have seen 4 at the Chrysler show.

So to me I like them to be "rare" some thing you don't see at every show. I love it when they say "WOW I have never seen one of those before!" Or "WOW I never heard of that one!".

Deby

[Ron of Chicago]

To define "rare" in the automotive world is like asking almost any male "Describe a beautiful woman".

With only 500 and some W-31's made, does that make mine "rare"?

I totally agree with the other comments and especially Deby. I'm the type of person that will spend more time looking a car over that you don't see very much even if it's not a "rare" one.

I agree with Glenn's comments but sure do love to see those earlier un-wanted vehicles today.

A friend of mine told me that the most used word on evil-bay is "RARE". I get sick of seeing so many ads that describe their car that way.

Ron

[Guest Debby Soucia]

For our cars I never say "rare" I call them "different". When I go to a show the different ones are the ones I check over more. The different ones have stuff I never saw before or don't know how it worked. I will ask the owner about different things as I look it over, if I never saw it before I usually have lots of questions for them!

There are times when I know they are not "rare" but "different" I still like to look!

[gmoney]

To me a rare car is one you have to search long and hard to find even one. I have only seen one REO Sedan in my life. I'm no kid at 50 with 35 years interested in antique cars. I have also seen only one or two REO trucks and only one Franklin, that was a 1930 model. Quit an impressive car. My grandfather had a 29 Franklin but, that was before my time. Imagine the buetiful cars we would have if not for the depression and the post war scrap metal recall!!

When I look at evilbay and see a car listed as rare, then see several more on the same page it makes me lauph and wonder who they are trying to fool. Pre-war hand made cars are rare because there were few made and time has taken some. Soon some models built from '73 to '78 full size cars may be rare because even mass produced cars dissapear when no-one is interested in saveing or restoring them.

Mike

Not so rare, '71 Cutlass Supreme hardtop

[Guest Debby Soucia]

If any body likes Franklins they should check out the Norwich Auto Museum in Norwich, NY. I think they had 22 at one time.

Deby

[Mike Cullen]

I love it when I see an ad on e-bay, "RARE-Model T Ford" sure, they made about 16 million of them. "Rare- 65 Mustang," or 69 Camaro, or whatever. Mass produced cars with production numbers in the hundreds of thousands, and only 40 years old, nothing rare there.

How about a Wills-St. Claire? or a Lincoln KA, or maybe a Moyer, a Chalmers, something 50-90 years old with production of 10,000 or less. THAT's rare. There are actually quite a few Franklins still out there, a surprising number survive.

[Guest imported_Julian]

Also, with all the "cloning" that is going on out there none of this junk is actually rare just "sounds good" to a potential buyer that knows little about buying, researching or owning an old car...thay are all worth what someone is willing to pay.. no more no less.

[Guest TommyH]

I consider the Reatta to be a rare care, as only 21,700some were produced. While that sounds like a big number, I have a heck of a time finding parts, unrelated to the engine. Also, some color and option combos are one of a kind. My parts guy has an 88(total 88 #is about 5,000) which is grey(less than 5% produced)has the 16-way seats((30% of all 88 reattea) AND the factory sunroof( less than 20%) so, 250 grey cars, 75 of those with 16-way seats, and adding the sunroof to that brings the total count to about 15 cars.

[gmoney]

I will tell yo what is rare, if you can find one at all. Back in the old days we had what was known as a Full service Gas station. You pulled in, did not get out of the car, thsy pumped the fuel washed your windshield and checked the oil. All this was done at 29 cents a gallon. I bought fuel today. 10 dollars got me 3 gallons and a clerk that had never heard of full servic. Mike

[Guest imported_Julian]

One of my 42 Oldsmobiles's frame is dated 12.5.41...just two days before Pearl Harbor....When I refinished the frame I painted the date code back in the same location.

[TG57Roadmaster]

Rare...1932* Reo Royale, one of a handful produced.

Rare...1942 DeSoto S-10 Convertible, one of 489 produced.

Rare...1955 Second-Series Chevrolet 3600 Bookmobile, one of one produced.

What the hey?!...Thankfully, there's <span style="font-style: italic">only</span> one!

Like they said above, Beauty is in the eye of the beholder...

TG

(* So maybe it's a '33 Custom Eight? You tell me.)

[bowlzo]

Excellent discussion - in a celebrity obsessed culture gone mad, in which entertainers, athletes, and many CEOs make more in a year than the overwhelming majority will ever see in a lifetime, relative worth, value, & merit have been rendered almost meaningless. Terms like rare, scarce, hard to find, unique, classic, antique, etc. are used indiscriminately in most media, including many venues in the vintage vehicle world. As an antiquarian bookman, I consider old books to have 3 separate & distinct "values": intrinsic - the merit of the publication itself; aesthetic - the physical aspects of the book, including condition, binding, illustrations, etc.; monetary - which may be influenced by the intrinsic & aesthetic value, along with the supply/demand factor, which includes aspects such as relative rarity / scarcity. Ultimately, an old book, a vintage vehicle, antique, or work of art is worth no more, nor less, than what a willing buyer pays a willing seller at a given place & point in time. A vehicle of intrinsic & aesthetic value will always be of interest to an automotive enthusiast; the seldom seen, unusual vehicle (such as this 55 Chevy Bookmobile!) even more so. Regardless of production numbers, remaining supply, perceived monetary value, etc., the questions we might ask of the myriad of fascinating artifacts of our 20th century automotive heritage are : did this vehicle function in keeping with its purpose of design? did the form of the vehicle contribute to the overall fulfillment of its design & function? is the vehicle still representative of its time, function, & design? To paraphrase a certain former President, along with a contemporary cliche, "is it what it is?" Selah - Bowlzo.

[71CutlassSX]

good question

we have a 71 Cutlass "SX" Convertible that we have owned since 1974 ....

I believe that car is an actual "rare" car ....

[joe_padavano]

I've seen lots of "rare" cars...

...in the context of "rare" meaning "not well done"

[Dan30thz28]

Hello,

I guess I thought my Cutlass Supreme SX was rare in that there were 19,330 442's made of which only 3100 were W-30's. The Cutlass SX production numbers were around 6400 for the 1970 SX hard tops. The reason I think the car is rare because I had never seen one at the Olds show I used to attend (or any classic car shows either), and I've never seen one before I traded my 'rare' 1997 30th Anniversary Z28 for it. I also know that many of them were junked, and only now do people realize that these cars are worth restoring. But, rare is in the eye of the beholder as said before, but I do feel quite blessed to have the nice olds that I have. Great topic!

[West Peterson]

Chevrolet Chevettes are rare... and, to a lesser degree, Gremlins and Pacers.

[Guest oldsmobile1915]

I still believe that if there were a bunch made... color or options shouldn't count. the option may be rare, but the vehicle is not.

And just because you have a hard time finding parts for the vehicle doesn't make it rare... many times, if people just pull their head out of their tailpipe, they can find one. It may be expensive - but it's out there.

If you need to have parts machined, panels hand made, and everything custom fabricated, parts cast, or special ordered... then it might be rare.

That's what I think...

all the best,

[West Peterson]

I'm with you, Joe. I like your point about the "option" is rare, not the car.

[Guest oldsmobile1915]

Hey all, Here's one for you...

Right now, I'm having a hard time getting a cap, rotor, and points for my 1915 Oldsmobiles. I have one complete set and three cars. (Keep in mind, there are 10 cars known that are left of this type... if we add a couple more cars for those "hidden in barns", there would be only twelve 1915 Oldsmobile Model 42s left in existance)

I am now in the process of making my own cap, rotor, and points.

Anyone have that beat?

[Guest imported_Julian]

I am now in the process of making my own cap, rotor, and points...HEY JOE.. you mean NAPA aint got any of those :)Julian

[rocketraider]

You mean Auto Zone doesn't have them on the shelf? Julian, for shame...

[Guest imported_Julian]

NOPE.. we aint got em either

[Guest oldsmobile1915]

I work at Advance Auto too, and no luck there! Maybe Pep Boys?