LINC400

A 1971 Chevy pick up was built to haul things, not for comfort. If you wanted comfort, you bought a 1971 Cadillac or Buick or even Impala. Sure a new pick up or SUV has heated leather seats and all kinds of goodies. But those vehicles were not exactly sold to go off-road or haul things. They were sold because city dwellers wanted to look cool on their expressway commute to work. I have not ridden in any newer car that has a more comfortable seat or ride than my 1976 Lincoln (or plenty of other older cars that have actual springs in the seats). No noise or smells. Driving it is like sitting in a Barcalounger watching the windshield like a video game. In comparison, the 2006 Monte Carlo SS requires constant attention and my a$$ hurts on a trip of more than 30 miles. Cupholders, GPS, and I-Pod jacks do not make hard seats and a stiff suspension comfortable on a long trip. I think we are seeing another low point in automotive history. From 2000 until now, I can count on one hand the number of interesting stand out cars that are not another 4 door midsize Accord clone. Challenger, Camaro (if it ever gets built), T-bird, Chevy SSR, Saturn Sky. With the current financial problems of the Big 3, these will be the first cars to be dropped, as some already have been. There will be no money for speciatly enthusiast cars that will sell in limited numbers. Leaving only the blandmobiles. A hybrid or electric car is fine if you want an appliance to get you to and from work. If you could get a Town Car or Challenger that has the same size and performance as a Hemi powered one with electric or hybrid technology, that would be great. But I don't think that will happen anytime soon. Rodders making computer parts to make everything run is a nice fantasy. However, they are making parts now. You can buy anything for a 1957 Chevy or a Mustang. There are 3 places that specialize in Lincoln parts. The parts they have are N.O.S. parts that they have been lucky enough to find somewhere, or used parts off of junk cars. There are zero repro parts for the interior of a 1970's Lincoln. Maybe a taillight but otherwise zero repro exterior parts. Fortunately Ford trucks use the 460, otherwise we would probably have no parts for those either. My first Lincoln needed that headlight sensor in 1991. I now have a 1976 that also needs one. It is almost 20 years later, and still no one has made this part. The air conditioning in my friend's 1991 Cadillac Brougham does not work because no one makes the computer part for that either. So what makes everyone think that rodders will rush to the rescue to make parts for newer cars? Sure, they will probably make everything you need for a newer Hemi or Mustang. But for a 2000's Lincoln, Mercury, or Taurus they are not interested in? Why would they make parts for cars they are not interested in when there will be no market for them?

Yes, you don't have to buy on Ebay. However, if you don't, you are only depriving yourself of a great source of cars and parts that might not appear anywhere else. There are plenty of other people on there so that they will not go under if a few of us boycott the site. What I can't understand is why they insist on changes that don't improve anything, and that they get lots of negative feedback about. I find myself using the parts search less now.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim Bollman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LINC400</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Ok that works, but it still seems like extra work for no gain. I do not currently have any saved searches on Ebay. I guess I will have to now if I don't want to type in all that crap anytime I search for something. I still say it was easier just to type 1972-79.</div></div> The 1972-79 still works for car searches, I use it, haven't tried it in the parts searches. </div></div> Yes, I mentioned earlier that it still works for cars. It does not work for parts. Which is stupid because there are a lot more parts than cars. And even if you are looking for a specific year car, the parts are available across more years.

Very good article. Amazing how the Big 3 were whipped when they showed up to Washington in their private jets as if it was a criminal offense. How did the banks and AIG get there? Did they drive hybrids to get their handouts? Do they have plans in place that polititions that have no clue about the industry get to knock down and tell them to redo or else? I suppose it would be better if GM and Chrysler paid huge bonuses with the bailout money like AIG did. As far as Consumer Reports, they might be useful for buying a digital camera or washing machine. But I think they are useless for info on cars. They most definitely have a bias against large cars and 2 doors. The only type of cars I will buy. When there are 600 4 doors on the market and 5 2 doors, I do not need to hear negative comments made about the 2 door because it does not have 4 doors. Obviously if I wanted a 4 door I would be looking at one. The same way I assume someone looking at a Marquis or Town Car is not interested in hearing negative comments because it is bigger than an Accord and does not get the same gas mileage as one.

Coming from the state with Rod Blago, I have to say I think that the government has no place trying to dictate how to run car companies when they can't even manage themselves.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: joe_padavano</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LINC400</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Previously when looking for parts, I would type Lincoln and select year 1972-1979. Now I will have to do seperate searches for Lincoln 1972, 72, 1973, 73, 1974, 74, 1975, 75, 1976, 76, 1977, 77, 1978, 78, 1979, 79. Gee only 16 different searches for what used to be one. Great improvement. </div></div> No you don't. Just type this in the search box: <span style="color: #3366FF">Lincoln (1972, 72, 1973, 73, 1974, 74, 1975, 75, 1976, 76, 1977, 77, 1978, 78, 1979, 79)</span> The commas inside the quotes are the same as a logical "OR" function. If you then save that search, you only have to type it once. </div></div> Ok that works, but it still seems like extra work for no gain. I do not currently have any saved searches on Ebay. I guess I will have to now if I don't want to type in all that crap anytime I search for something. I still say it was easier just to type 1972-79.

My 1976 Lincoln has automatic headlights. They do not work because they need a computer sensor that no one makes. My 1979 Lincoln needed the same part. Fortunately, the headlights can be operated manually and none of this affects the driveability of the car. However, I can only imagine that the more computer stuff a car has, the more likely it is to affect its ability to be restored. People still pull 1950's cars out of junkyards and barns and get them running. I can't imagine that happening with a computer laden car years from now that hasn't been running for decades.

I don't understand why Honda and Toyota even have service departments. According to the media and people on the internet, these are cars that never ever need repairs, unlike American cars. Now I have read that at the New York Auto Show, people were badmouthing GM and Chrysler, blaming them for their gas guzzling SUV's that caused us to be in the war with Iraq. Gee I thought ALL foreign cars just got 50 mpg. Now I find out that they use no gas or oil at all. And of course, neither does any other industry, just GM and Chrysler. I really don't get all the bashing of American companies. Didn't "Made in USA" used to be something we took pride in? Now everybody buys everything foreign and mounts their little American flag on it. Makes sense.

Previously when looking for parts, I would type Lincoln and select year 1972-1979. Now I will have to do seperate searches for Lincoln 1972, 72, 1973, 73, 1974, 74, 1975, 75, 1976, 76, 1977, 77, 1978, 78, 1979, 79. Gee only 16 different searches for what used to be one. Great improvement.

It doesn't seem to affect much if you are looking for cars. However, if you are looking for parts, you cannot search by year anymore. This is a huge inconvenience.

For every item, there is someone to collect it. Who would have thought people would collect bottle caps, lunch boxes, or old oil cans? So I am sure, in the future, there will be someone collecting Tauruses and Priuses. However, I do not think that those will be the cars of choice for future collectors. I do not remember anyone hoarding late '60's & '70's Mark III's or Eldorados. The only collector interest was for the 1976 Bicentennial Eldorado convertible which sold for double the list price. Then was a huge flop on the collector market when a new Eldo convert was sold before the '76 was anything more than an 8 year old used car. The cars from the '70's that were collected were muscle cars. Duesenberg and even Model T and A owners might have looked down their noses at them, but those were the cars that people collected from the '70's, Not Lincolns and Pintos. Those cars generally cannot command more than $10,000 in flawless shape now. Certainly not many were collecting them decades ago. No one could have predicted the huge overinflated prices of muscle cars today, but they were still the ones being collected decades ago. People do collect what they remember from childhood. A 1957 Chevy is, and was 20 years ago, unlike anything being built now or then. How different is a mint 1986 Taurus from a 2009? I bet if you put both side by side, most NON-Car people would have no idea they were built 23 years apart. Where then is the nostalgia value? They will want to collect the Challanger or Camaro they had a poster of on their wall, not the Taurus or Accord they probably don't even remember because they were busy arguing about what DVD to watch in the back at that time. As far as some computer geek making replacement parts, sure it is possible. Maybe someone will even make them for Mustangs and Camaros. But for Tauruses and Priuses? I don't think so. Every Mark IV and V I have ever seen has cracked armrests if it has more than 20,000 miles on it. Yet no one makes a reproduction part for it. And it does not even require any computer technology, just a mold made from an old one. Why does no one make this then? Because it is not a muscle car. There are tons of replacement parts for Corvettes, Mustangs, and Camaros. Try finding them for a '70's Lincoln. So I don't think there will be a ton of computer replacement parts for Tauruses.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave@Moon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And I'm pretty sure is automotive knowledge includes the division status of Edsel as well. I think Jay is spot on in his assessments. An excellent article, instead of <span style="font-style: italic">Popular Mechanics</span> he should be writing for <span style="font-style: italic">Hemmings</span> or <span style="font-style: italic">Collectible Automobile</span>. The latter in fact could really use a good editorial collumn like his. </div></div> I wouldn't be so sure that he does know the division status of Edsel. In an interview, he repeatedly called his Imperial Crown a "Chrysler Imperial" even though Imperial was a seperate division at that time. I do not think he is spot on either. I think a Plymouth/Chrysler Prowler, Dodge Challenger and Magnum, and Chevy Camaro will be a lot more collectible than a Taurus, Escalade, or Prius. And that is just off the top of my head. Even excellent original cars may not run if computer parts cannot be found. I recall reading an article about an excellent condition low mileage Lincoln Mark XIII that could not be fixed because no one had a computer part on the shelf for it, Ford wouldn't make one, and junkyard ones didn't work. I think there will be a lot more of this type of situation in the future.

The Miata as a future collectible, yes I can see that. The Taurus? I don't think so. The '49 Ford was quite revolutionary for its time, yet is worth nowhere near what a '57 Chevy is. I think the Taurus will be just as overlooked. As for the Pintos and Gremlins, they aren't worth anything now. Neither are Metropolitans which I think are the most collectible of all the little cars. Nice cars, but I think you would have an extremely hard time getting more than $20,000 for one now. Less than your much more common Chevelle or Mustang. So I don't think Priuses or Smart Cars will be commanding big bucks in the future either. Plus I don't think anyone takes into consideration computers and repairs. I can't get replacement parts for my 1994 Buick now. Where are you going to get computer chips and parts for your 2005 gadget laden car in 2025? Pontiac Aztek the new Edsel? (and it is NOT a Ford Edsel, just like it isn't a Ford Lincoln or Ford Mercury or Chrysler Dodge) Edsels took forever to finally get some respect, and they are still the butt of jokes, and again worth nowhere near what a '57 Chevy is.

First, I don't see how anyone can make a blanket statement that foreign cars are better. One list shows Buick at the top with Mercedes at the bottom, The next list shows Toyota at the top with Chrysler at the bottom. Some lists even show the Mercury Marquis above average while the Crown Vic (identical car except for the grill) is below average. How is this possible? Do the Ford employees say "This one is a Marquis, so let's be very careful. The next 2 are Fords, so just slap 'em together any old way."? I don't think so. It is because a lot of these lists are based on data from the general public who generally know nothing about cars. Some are even just downright stupid. People will leave their headlights on all night and then the car won't start. Drive over a nail, and then get a blowout. Bad, lousy quality American cars. They will never buy another one. Yet a Honda or Volkswagen can have the engine or transmission blow at less than a year old, and it must be ok because it IS a foreign car, and it WAS covered under warranty. I am not exaggerating. These are true stories from people I am acquainted with. Then the media prints heresay with no basis in fact about subjects they know nothing about, like cars. They have deadlines, and can't be bothered with checking on things like facts. And the general public believes it as gospel truth. I have seen more than enough articles people found in magazines and newspapers on this website alone that are pure B.S. The one about antique cars being safety hazards on the road because some reporter found out safety inspections aren't required, and found ONE accident report involving an antique car comes to mind. More reports like this, and they will be bad mouthing antique cars just like they currently bad mouth the big 3. Finally, what about CAFE? There was an actual size difference in cars before. You could get anything from a Chevette to an Eldorado or Fleetwood with tons of choices in between in 1976. The buyer of a '76 LeSabre would never give a second look to a '76 Toyota. Now with CAFE, how much difference is there between a Buick and Toyota? They are the same size, same price, look pretty much the same, so why not look at a Toyota? I was looking for a car in 2006. I wanted a large 2 door. Monte Carlo was the first choice. What was the second? Cadillac, Buick, Mercury, Chrysler, Lincoln, Dodge? Nope none of them even offer a 2 door. 2nd choice was a Toyota Solara. I would have never even looked at one if any of the American mfrs. offered a 2 door. Yet now everyone claims that there are too many different models, and that is another problem with the Big 3.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Trunk Rack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: poci1957</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I guess Trunk Rack is just trying to get a rise out of everyone, I cannot tell if he is legitimately concerned about this or not. If so, I do not know what criticism he can level against the AACA, as it has always firmly stated 25 years old is an antique, as do various antique license laws. Not much to complain about there, the so-called "putt putt" guys were there first and if you have, say, a 1985 model you want to drive then next year you will be included too. If you have a 1995 car then enjoy it and take it to the cruise night, but it is not an antique. Yet. If he is criticizing the AACA for not accepting modified cars, then that is also not valid, the focus is what it is, you should find another club and enjoy their company. Likewise the CCCA seems to be often criticized but I think their list of Classics is pretty self-explanatory--if your car is on the list it is welcome, if not then you should join another club that covers your subject. I like Classics but I do not expect to take my Pontiac to a CCCA tour. Is this exclusionary? Absolutely. Will the club shrink from lack of participants? Maybe, but the fact remains it's focus is absolutely clear. I am in the Pontiac-Oakland Club and do not complain that I want to display a Ford at a Pontiac convention. If it is not Pontiacs I am interested in, then why am I there? If it is not original vehicles 25 years and older that I am interested in then I am not interested in the AACA. How unclear can this be? </div></div> I agree with this 100%. Any car 25 years or older is an antique, whether old timers like them or think they are unworthy is irrelevent. It is based on age, nothing more. You cannot argue whether a car is more than 25 years old or not. It is a simple fact. Either it is or it isn't. Classic on the other hand is based on quality, workmanship, rarity, etc. The CCCA has the list of what cars are Classics, and anything not on the list is not a Classic. The CCCA developed this list probably before the original poster of this topic was even born. Now they should change everything to suit him because he wants to call his car an "antique classic", a term I have never even heard used before. I have heard "antique" and "classic" both correctly and incorrectly used. I have never heard anyone call their car an "antique classic". If he is unable to own or even just appreciate a true "Classic", then he is in the wrong club and should join a club where he is happier and where his car is accepted. Quit whining that CCCA should change just to suit him. By the way my car is not a Classic and I am not a grandpa. My 1976 Lincoln is an antique. I do get offended when people say it is not worthy of being called an antique since it obviously is one. As I said, that is based on age alone. However, it is not a Classic and never will be. If that bothered me, I wouldn't have bought it. I am not going to sit here and demand that CCCA accept it because I want to call it a Classic because I think the term sounds nice. I also don't take my Lincoln to a Packard meet and demand that it be shown and judged. I am also tired of people joining clubs that are not suited to them or their cars, and then demanding that everything be changed just to suit them. There are clubs for all cars and all people. Join the one that is best suited to you.

The car I miss most was my 1979 Continental Mark V Cartier edition. Most people here do not seem to like the 1970's cars, but I thought it was great. It had beautiful styling, handled well for a car of its size, and was loaded with every modern convenience, even moonroof. Plus it had the extra fun of the designer snob appeal to even further distinguish it from other Mark V's. And it was a real Cartier, not just one with a Cartier clock like they try to pass off on Ebay all the time as a Cartier. I bought it as my only car in 1996. The guy bought it new and had offers on it, but didn't want to sell it to anyone that was going to just use it as a beater. I was the only one to promise to take care of it, so he even drastically reduced the price so I could afford to buy it when he had other higher offers. We even argued about who would keep the Cartier dash plaque with his name engraved on it. I won. I used it as a daily driver until 2004. Then it was "retired" and was used only as a show car. I was slowly minting it out and had just spend $1200 on repairs in May 2007. Everything that had been irritating me about for years had been fixed. Less than 24 hours later it was rear ended by an 18 year old idiot with no insurance that was too busy talking on his cell phone to notice that all the cars were stopped in front of him. He just plowed into it at about 40 mph and totaled it. The Cartier dash plaque and a few other small items are all I have left of it. It took about a year and a half before I found a 1976 Mark IV Givenchy to replace it. It is a nice car, but I liked the Cartier better. And of course the Givenchy has no interesting history behind it or sentimental value.

Must have been our 1966 Ford Galaxie 500 2 door. It would be nice if I could say it was a Packard limo, but I think the Ford is a lot better than being brought home in a VW or Honda.

If you look at sales figures for Packard and Cadillac, both were around 90,000-100,000 1948-1953. So it looks like Packard was holding its own against Cadillac during that time. But this is not really the case. Packard's volume was from the low end cars, whereas Cadillac's volume was from the Series 62 which cost $500-$1000 more than Packard's low end cars. Packard's cars at that price range sold way less. So Packard was not really competing with Cadillac, but with the higher end Buick, Olds, and Chryslers. Packard was holding its own there, but as the others got V-8's and more innovations and accessories, Packard started losing those buyers too. They started correcting that by 1955-56, but unfortunately it was basically all over by with 1956.

Sounds about as believable as the guy that was pointing to a 1956 Cadillac last year and said that the Dagmars were for pushing cows out of the way on rural roads. His girlfriend was in awe of his brilliance. I continued this farce by saying that that is why Packard went out of business. Because Cadillac had rubber tipped Dagmars, while Packard's were all metal and cruel to cows, and people didn't like this.

Cheaper models were needed during the Depression to help all manufacturers survive. However, after the war, when everybody could sell anything, they were not needed anymore. Cadillac was about $500 higher than Packard's cheapest models. A big deal since The price of a Cadillac started at about $2800.00. Lincoln was about $200-$300 higher than Packard, but suffered their own identity crisis until 1961. Cadillac then dropped its Series 61 and was about $1000 higher than Packard. This probably hurt Packard in 2 ways. First there wasn't much difference between the high and low priced Packards other than a smoother little bigger engine and longer hood. So the buyer of a high end car probably didn't want to pay more for one that looked little different than one costing $1000 less. Second, since Packard was always a luxury car, the cheap models probably didn't attract new buyers because they probably figured they were out of their price range. Also Packard was always innovating before WWII, but did nothing postwar until 1955. Cadillac and Lincoln both had V-8's. Even if they weren't as reliable or powerful, V-8 was the buzzword everyone wanted to hear. With the lower price, lack of V-8, a/c, and other innovations, it probably made people think Packard was an inferior car even if it wasn't.

I think that the bathtub Packards are very underappreciated. The 1949-50 Mercury enjoys icon status, and even the bathtub Hudsons are more appreciated. I think it was amazing that Packard was able to update the Clipper on a limited budget, and offer a car that looked similar to and just as modern as Fomoco's, Hudson's, and Nash's all new designs. I also think that the grill is great. It looks much more prestigious than the Lincoln or Hudson grill, was contemporary, yet still looked like a Packard grill. The eggcrate version is especially attractive. It is a shame that Packard didn't focus more on high end luxury with these cars and chose to go after the middle price field. However, I think the cars that really lowered Packard's prestige were the 1951-1954. The design was very ordinary, and looked more like it should be a Mercury or Pontiac rather than a Packard. They did have the senior models, but emphasis did seem to be more on the cheaper ones. They even lost the traditional verticle grill and shape. I especially like the description from one of my Packard books that calls it the "it crawled from the sea grill". Yes the oxyoke is barely visible after someone points it out to you, but Packard buyers were unhappy with it even when the car was new. That is why they developed the Request with verticle grill. The bathtubs were well received and even won styling awards when new. In any case, I think something is an excellent design if generates a love it or hate it response. It has to have a lot of character to get people to passionately argue both sides. Something like a Honda Accord is just too bland to generate that kind of response.

I am probably one of the few people that has zero desire to have my first car back. My uncle had a 1975 Buick Regal and thought it was the best car ever made. So when I wanted to look at a car, he wouldn't take me to look at anything other than Buick Centurys (similar to but not as nice as a Regal. I couldn't get a car as nice as his, that wouldn't do) So I ended up with a '75 Buick Century, silver with navy top and interior, ick. The paint and rust was so bad on the roof that it looked like leprosy. And no rear defroster for icy Chicago winters. I could never see out the back window. When it got hit 6 months later, and I didn't want to pay to fix it because I didn't like it, I realized I didn't have to have anyone drive me to look at cars this time and I could buy whatever I wanted. Since then I've had Lincolns. The next car I would buy would be Packard. No desire whatsoever to relive the Century.

I enjoy my '76 Lincoln, but do not care for working on it, nor do I have the time to do it. I can do some repairs myself. My friend helps when it's more than I want to deal with. But anytime I take it in for something, I have found that no one knows how to work on it. I figured it should be straightforward, V-8, RWD, no complicated computers, the same as I learned on in auto shop in high school. However, that seems to be the problem. If they can't plug it in to a computer that tells them what is wrong with it, no one is able to actually diagnose anything. They just guess and keep replacing parts hoping that something will eventually fix it. There seem to be two types of repair places here in Chicago. Regular repair shops that can't fix my car, or restoration shops that expect you to leave the car with a blank check and pick it up in 6 months. If there was a place that specialized in old cars without ridiculous prices, I would be happy to take it there.

I find it just as annoying when they don't have any pictures. I usually figure it's so bad they don't want you to see it. Really, does anyone pay $10,000, $20,000, $50,000 for a car sight unseen? Why bother even listing it? I assume they have to pay for an ad no one is going to respond to.