1965rivgs

For anyone who cares.... I inspected two front fenders from an original `66 GS Riv I am parting and the holes for the GS emblems definitely appear to have been punched..... <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" /> Tom Mooney ROA #56

Hi Darwin, !! Both !! <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Tom Mooney

Tom...didn`t I just provide a lead to you for a black on burgandy Riv T-Type? <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Guess your only as good as your last good day...in the ROA! Email me off site and update me...did you buy the car? If not, I`m looking for a replacement for my kid...he`s destroying my Suburban! Tom Mooney ROA#56

Hi Gee, Put me in line. I`d love to know more about your `65 for sale. Clasic Buick color combo... Tom Mooney

Hi Bob, I`ll also have a car for sale at Ashville. Perhaps we can double up on a rent-a-car!!....like a Shelby Mustang! Tom Mooney <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I am very familiar with Mr. Hinkley`s article. Darwin, I am the individual who referred you to it. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I have always questioned the prospect of indexing already finished sheet metal parts into a puch press. I have not seen evidence of such here in the rusty midwest nor does it make sense from a manufacturing process with much human involvement. Perhaps Mr. Hinkley`s 35 year old recollection of the process, or his communication of it, is out of sequence. If the parts were already brought together in "broadcast order" why not stamp the sheetmetal before paint? Also, concerning a very low production option like the GS package, would construction of a special stamping die been cost effective? In `65 Buick changed both the the GS emblems and their locations. Would they have created a new die for such a change? For two holes in sheet metal? On my `66 Wildcat GS, and for that matter all three cars, the holes for the GS emblems are definitely drilled..another low production option package. The best way to tell conclusively, instead of comparing Camaro production to Riviera production, is to examine the cars themselves. It is easy to tell a drilled from a stamped hole. But do most really care about such nonsense? Hard to justify the time.... Tom Mooney ROA #56

So what`s the conclusion from the experts??? Were the holes punched in the factory die or drilled using a template on the assembly line????? Tom Mooney ROA #56

Hi Dick, I picked up two copies when they were on the shelf at the bookstore. Thanks for getting the club and our cars some much needed and deserved exposure, Tom Mooney

Hi Guys...more than one mistake here...Buick did not produce a "GS" version of the Wildcat model in `65. The ONLY year the GS option was offered on the Wildcat was `66. Buick did, however, feature the Wildcat in the more expensive version of their `65 "Sizzlers" catalogue along with the `65 Riviera GS and Skylark GS models. 425 valve timing was not necessarily more conservative depending on the year and application. This gets complicated but suffice to note the 425 valve timing was toned down for the `66 models except for the Super Wildcat 425. The GS Riv was available with many axle ratios including two which were suggested as appropriate for the Riv GS in the Buick Sizzlers catalogue. This is a Riviers GS specific listing direct from Buick. Buick suggested a 3:23 or 3:58 ratios as "special order axle ratios". The article is correct in stating the 3:42 ratio was standard. I have only owned one `65 GS with a ratio other than the 3:42, it was a 3:23 which I believe to be factory installed. Both the first and second edition GS emblems were not installed on the trunk lid but were installed on the rear body panel. The Riviera driveline is loaded with those CV joints the article states it doesn`t have. The `64 and `65 models have one more than the `63 edition. Otherwise, a better than most article and they did get some things right that most articles dont...the relay addition on the clamshell headlights, the H-2 handling package....nice car Dick! Tom Mooney ROA#56

Hi Steve, I wouldn`t be concerned about the header pipes. Buick ran them parallel and close to the frame on the GS models in `65. The over the axle pipes can present a problem with tire rubbing as even when NOS bushings are installed in the rear track bar there is some side to side compliance in the rear axle. I have a set of NOS over the axle pipes and they are flattened in strategic areas. Hope this helps, Tom Mooney ROA#56

Hi Randy, Very interesting subject....did Buick manuufacture a "GS" fender by creating a unique die or were the holes for the GS emblem drilled by the assembly line workers? Is there a seperate listing in the Buick parts book for a "GS" fender? One would think it logical that if a unique die was created Buick would have produced spares in the parts system. I was told by a Buick employee, whose dept. handled coordinating emblem production by subcontractors, that engineering would create a unique sheetmetal die if the option/marking in question would exceed 15% of production, but nothing was written in stone. I would think even if the holes for the GS emblem were drilled and not punched, the GS emblem placement would still have been squeezed between the Riviera script and the fenderwell. Nice thread, love the details.... Tom Mooney ROA#56

Hi Pete, The `63 Buick Accessories Manual lists a tachometer "for all models". The pic of the tach shows a full chrome case with mounting foot but is clearly illustrated on a model other than the Riv. Keep in mind the Silver Arrow show car had a CLOCK mounted in the console at the location you referred to. However, the `64 shop manual clearly shows a tach installation on the Riviera on top of the dash pad with full chrome case. We must note, as Ed has pointed out, the area in question was used for the ashtray in the rearranged console for `64. I have found no reference to a tach in a `65 Riviera except for a listing in the `65 parts book which shows a "tach harness" as available for the Riv. There is not a listing in the Accessories Manual. The Wholesale car order forms do not list a tach as available for the Riviera for any of the first three years, `63-`65. So there were no factory installed tachs in this model. The tach would have been dealer installed. Did Buick intend to install a clock in the `63 console and a tach where the factory installed clock was eventually placed as in the Silver Arrow showcar? Or did they intend to install the Wildcat tach in the console in the location in question? Hard to say, but we do know they built at least one car with a CLOCK in the console. Tom Mooney ROA#56

Hi Bob, One of the benefits of joining the ROA is access to the technical advisors which serve the members. In regard to your clamshell headlights, you will not find much in the Service Manual regarding this system and what is in there is misleading. Buick, after many short Service Bulletins, eventually published a comprehensive 28 page Service Bulletin which covers every aspect of the hideaway headlight system. It is critical to understand how the different parts of the system interact, mechanical/electrical, to do a thorough job. This Bulletin is available to you, for the cost of postage, as a member of the ROA, as is my expertise. I can tell you anything you would like to know regarding the system short of whether to wear boxers or briefs while servicing it. Hope to hear from you soon! Tom Mooney ROA #56

There is also a difference in the actual size of the rear handy mats. At some point the A body cars received smaller mats. I have NOS examples of both. Tom Mooney ROA #56

Hi Jake, We dont know the exact number of Baby Grans produced but when making some very straightforward assumptions we can guesstimate approxiamately 350 cars were produced by the end of Dec `64. It seems the transition from the original issue small emblems to the larger 2nd type emblems was made over the holiday break at the year end `64. One of the 2nd type emblems is the same as used on the Skylark GS cars so there was some financial/logistical incentive due to parts interchange that may have been a consideration. Otherwise, I`m sure the change was a design decision for cosmetic reasons. The early emblem cars are obviously rarer but I have not seen a substantial effect on values. I think any preference for the first or second types is purely in the eyes of the beholder. Hope this helps, Tom Mooney ROA #56

Hi Bell, You dont need the entire rear axle to do the swap. The center section drops out of the axle housing. I shipped a center section from Chicago to Washington state via FedEx for just over $100. An added benefit of this type of carrier is you can bolt it into your housing and you dont need to set it up. It is already setup up as a carrier "unit". Good luck, Tom Mooney ROA #56

Just an FYI....Buick went to a two key system in `65. Tom Mooney ROA #56

Hi Bill, Be forewarned that the lock cylinder in the other door may also be a different code! Because the door skins swap on and off it is very common to find someone has swapped a different door skin onto the car along with a different lock. Even if the opposite lock is a match, as long as you are making a trip to the locksmith it is a good idea to have both the lock cylinders disassembled, cleaned, worn parts replaced and lubricated. A long established locksmith can produce a key cut to the code on your locks. However, many modern shops do not have this ability. Why not have your door locks matched to your ignition key as per the original arrangement? When reassembling the door skin to the frame be sure the right angle plunger/rod which extends down to the door latch mechanism is centered in the "stirrup" located on the back of the lock core. It is VERY common to find someone has not paid attention to this detail resulting in inop or stubborn key/lock operation. Good luck! Tom Mooney ROA #56

Hi Bill, Buick did a great job of clearing assembly line garbage from the first gen cars. Build sheets are few and far between. I have only seen a few after kicking on and around these junks for over 25 years. Build sheets seem to be much more common in the `66 and up cars. We can decode the `66 build sheets by using the booklet which quality control inspectors used in Flint to check the `66 cars. There are a few copies of this booklet kicking around. But we have no such booklet for the first gen cars. I have several first gen build sheets, one is actually a Gran Sport, but not enough data to even start making educated guesses. The document you describe sounds like the paper tag which was affixed to the rear seat back cushion in the trim shop. It lists trim shop info like combo numbers but is not a build sheet for the assembly of the car as a whole. If you post a pic I can tell you for sure, they are a rather common find. Hope this info helps....somewhat, Tom Mooney ROA #56

Hi Don, All Chicago area members, If any Chicago area members, or prospective members! have questions about what to expect at the annual meet, the ROA in general, etc...please feel free to contact me! PM for my telephone number or check your last issue of the Riview under Technical Advisors! Thinking Spring in The Windy City, Tom Mooney