jeff_a

Steve, I think I would remove these from the list: Lamborghini LM 002, Lamborghini Espada, '63 Avanti, '55 T-Bird, and '53 Corvette, and just keep the Miura out of all the post-war stuff. I would replace them with a 1935 Packard 120, a 1910 Buick Raceabout, and two more Peerlesses, now that I've found they're a little rarer than I thought. You know what they say: "Faster Than Ford, Older Than Cadillac, Rarer Than Duesenberg!" At the time I started this thread in 2007....I didn't actually have a Peerless in real life. I was hoping to buy a '27 Peerless Model 6-80 Sedan that I looked at in Wetaskiwin, Alberta. Someone else got it, so I bought another 6-80, which is a Boat Tail Coupe and a 1928, so I'll need to replace the '27 Packard* and '27 Pierce-Arrow* Sedans with a 1928 Packard Single Six Coupe* and a 1928 Pierce-Arrow Series 81 Coupe*. As long as we have this fantasy list we might as well have a matched set, eh? So that leaves me with three more cars to buy. A 1926 Elcar Cabriolet [Lycoming Straight-8]* would be nice. Okay, a 1928 Peerless Model Eight-69 7-Pass. Sedan [V-8]*, and any Peerless Six-70 [rarer now than a Model "X" Duesenberg*]. *Full Classic

Thanks for the post about the Price Museum of Speed. I've never been there yet but have looked at the first-rate website several times. Quite a stellar collection of high-performance machines! ----Jeff

Dear Bryan, I'm glad you made it to the Hershey Swap Meet and got back safe and sound. At least you got to spend a day there! I live so far away I might never get to go unless I move a little closer. Maybe they have an opening at the AACA Museum...that way I could avoid the 40 hours of driving. I think it'd take me 5 years to find out where all the vendors are....if the stories are really true that there are 8,000 of them. Of course, the wandering around and socializing is probably what's fun about attending -- more than actually buying anything. That's great that you even saw parts for Brass Era cars. I live too far out in the Boonies to see that kind of stuff. They haven't made Brass cars for 95 years, so I'd expect the headlights and such to be a little high. You know, high demand, low supply! I looked at the classified ads on the HCCA site and saw sets of headlights for $450, $864, $1,500, $1,800, and $3,750*. A 1922 Chevrolet Baby Grand Touring was for sale for just a few dollars more than the last pair of lights!! I wasn't there to see what you saw, of course. Were they asking similar prices at the Swap Meet? I heard there were two Peerlesses at Hershey: a green 1913 with a T-head 578 cu. in. Six and a blue 1917 with a Peerless 332 cu. in. V-8, I think. ---Jeff * had a few dents and a broken reflector

RHL, Interesting news about non-detergent oil...and that the diesel engine oil is better. I appreciate that you looked that up for everyone's benefit. I just found a picture in my files of what an oil filter looks like on a firewall. These must have been one of the earlier uses of oil filters on cars. It turns out that the photo is one of a 1926 Peerless Six-80 that John in Kansas City owns. I printed all the pictures of it I could when the car was for sale on e-Bay. The unit is about 5'' wide x 6" tall and is strapped on to the firewall a little below and to the right of the oil can bracket (when viewed from outside the car on the r.s.). It's directly behind the engine-mounted horn. It looks like a 1/8" line going in from the top and a 1/4" line coming out of the bottom.

Maybe your car's in it! It wasn't the worst film I ever saw, but it had bad reviews and came out at the same time as another barnstormer-themed movie, Paper Moon.

Dear Ron and John, Have any of you Kissel guys ever heard of the movie "Ace Eli & Roger of the Skies"? The featured car was a Kissel Gold Bug, driven by actress Bernadette Peters in her 1st film role. Might be worth watching for the cars if you can find a copy for sale cheap on ebay. The movie was set in Kansas in the early Twenties, and starred Cliff Robertson. It was actually pretty awful -- a lot of people had the studio list their part in it with fake names. Released in 1973; written by Steven Spielberg.

Car:1948 Nash Town: Yokohama, Japan

Silverghost, I don't think the older cars are gone or not being driven so much, it's just that the numbers are against them. There have been so many Postwar cars built, brass cars are just outnumbered. In other words: important historically, unimportant statistically. Rare. The really early cars (and their owners) created the entire idea of car shows, and cars being viewed as genuine antiques. Now newer cars have come along and are being appreciated, too. My Grandfather Brown found an '09 Buick Raceabout in a ditch back in the 30's with a tree growing up through the frame and people thought he was nuts to buy it, not to mention restore it. Eventually he found a club he could join full of like-minded people, and he became the 415th member of the Horseless Carriage Club of America. Grandpa's car is still out there somewhere and probably still being taken to car shows(he owned it until the 1990's)....but this Buick with the 4-digit serial number is kind of overshadowed by all the Pintos, Plymouths & Pontiacs, etc. built during the huge surge in car production after WWII.

South_paw, I was looking at your great pictures of the Peerless/GM/Hearst building again and finally got around to reading the NY Times story you left a link to. The ten-story building went up in 1909 for both the Peerless and Demarest companiess. There was a carriage-builder/coachbuilder named Demarest who actually was one of at least 50 companies that were coachbuilders for Peerless. This is the same company -- one of those listed in the "Peerless Coachbuilders" thread here on the Peerless Forum. Say, that party you took the 1956 Cadillac to was recent...2007! You should have invited some of us from the Peerless Motor Car Club to go, too! Maybe our member from Virginia could have brought his 1915 Mod. 48-Six Touring with the 578 Cu. In. engine -- or our member from New Jersey could have appeared with her 1930 Custom Eight Limousine at the party. Seriously, though....the party planners probably didn't know any of us, and the LaSalle and Cadillacs certainly looked good! Did you know that at one point in time the paths of Cadillac & Peerless were intertwined? 1923 and 1924 were called "the Cadillac lookalike years" for Peerless. That's because most of of the upper management at Cadillac quit, bought Peerless, and ran it for two or three years. The two companies even had the same radiator shell design then! Anyway, thank you again for sharing the excellent photographs of the Peerless Building. ----Jeff

Steve, I might be able to help on Thurs. and Fri., but I would need to catch a ride from out in Idaho to Hershey and back --- or maybe Idaho to central Iowa and back (a friend offered me a ride from the Ames area to Hershey & back). Maybe someone's going my way or needs a car or trailer moved(?)...though north-central Idaho and SW Montana aren't exactly a hotbed of AACA activity. ----Jeff AACA Member No. 985409 J

Funny comment about the Hemi Orange & Bumble Bee Stripes! I did see a 1927 Peerless Six-60 sales brouchure with an Orange Boat Tail Coupe in it, which could give me license to go orange. I looked at one of the Autocolor library cards for Rolls-Royce Blue, and it looks "as black as the ace of spades" on a computer monitor. Kind of like Ford's Andalusite Blue, which some people say is a gallon of Black with one drop of Blue added. At least I know it's a darker shade!

Matt, I have missed your posts for quite awhile. You have a good writing style. I wish you wrote for one of the car magazines. Though you've had some difficulties, remember that you eventually come out of the woods if you keep walking. In the old car world, because there are a few "high rollers", it's easy to get the impression that everyone has a 100-car barn to store his autos in and a Gulfstream IV to fly to the shows and auctions with. Oh, and I forgot, unlimited money! The reality is, a lot of us have to make do and live within our means, but still are able to learn about, appreciate, and work on old cars. Personally, I've never had much money to work with -- but I've had good things going on to make up for it! Your fellow old car guy, Jeff

Thanks, everyone, for the ideas regarding paint, oil changes and oil filters. I've been on one 500-mile and two 670-mile trips since my first post six days ago, which is why I couldn't reply until now. I've gotten a RestorationStuff.com catalog already. They have a lot of good period-correct nuts, bolts, etc. My particular Model 6-80 was produced late in its 3-year run, and is a lot more like a '29 Peerless than a '26 or '27 in some ways...but eventually I'll find an ad or a sales manual that shows the firewall layout for rigging a filter. I talked to Don Bettes on the phone yesterday and got a lot of help regarding the questions above. With respect to paint, I'm currently leaning toward Black fenders/Rolls-Royce Blue upper body/Ivory reveals/London Smoke lower body. I saw a Peerless ad announcing the new 6-80 colors, including these, for 1928. My problem with these is that I don't really know what R-R Blue(dark blue?navy?light blue?) or London Smoke(dark grey?off-white?) look like. I've also considered the 10 colors The Green Dragon listed, which have their own merits. A Peerless Club member in South Africa has a 1929 Peerless 6-81 Sedan painted with what I think may be Stutz Royal Red on the fenders and Ivory on the rest of the car, and it looks quite good. Here it is at a car show in Pietermaritzburg, South Africa on May 16th (Photo by petemick):

Bernie, Some Peerless Opera Coupes had top hat compartments on the left side of the rear seat, too. Do you think this could be a Pullman body? ----Jeff

Dear rcstewart, Though I can't identify the make of auto at first glance, I think the picture was taken much later than 1902. I will guess 1912 is the date of manufacture of the car. ----Jeff P.S.: Welcome to the AACA Forums and thanks for sharing the excellent 100-year-old photo with us!

I'm about to start restoring a 1928 Peerless Six-80 Boat Tail Coupe. The engine is one of the well-designed Continental "8U's" [230 Cu. In./63 H.p.@2,600 R.P.M./7-Main Bearings/Stromberg UX-2 Carburetor]. I've come to some roadblocks in a couple of areas:(...and wondered if others may know the way. Paint: a. My feeling is that there were a large number of colors available for this model, but so far I've only found Rolls-Royce Blue, Ohio Blue, and London Smoke. b. Is there a vintage paint source that has these colors available or color chips to scan?Oil Filter: a. The owner's manual says I have a remote oil filter w/ replaceable cartridge on the firewall. b. I don't. c. Could there be a source for, say, 1920's Purolator firewall-mount oil filter units? d. I've found photos of three '29 Peerlesses with remote oil filters mounted on the l.s. of the motor, but my manual doesn't have an illustration of what the firewall setup looks like.Engine Mounting Blocks: a. My engine is tilted back (low in back) too far for a crank to fit in crank socket; I suspect some rubber mounting blocks have degraded. b. What should I replace these with?Running Board Mats: a. Where's a good place to get 12-15 ft. of narrow-ribbed rubber matting to cut myself? b. My Model A catalogs have a type of mat that may work...but it's only available in pre-cut Ford sizes. c. My Peerless' running boards are much longer than those of an "A" Ford: 65 vs. 39 inches.Oil Type: a. Does it really make a difference if I use Pennzoil 10-30W, or non-detergent 30W, if I'm just going to drain the old oil out and put some newer stuff in? b. The car was still being driven 8-10 years ago. I don't plan to actually drive the car in the next year, but I may try to start it and run it for a few minutes in the next 6 months. Thanks for any ideas! Jeff

134. A Brewster-bodied 1910 Peerless Victoria set a record sale price for the marque at the September 25/26, 2008 Owls Head Museum Auction: $469,000. The motorcar was from the Richard Paine Collection; also ex- Dr. Sam Sher, James Melton, Doris Duke, and Henry Ford Museum. 135. PEERLESS IN YELLOWSTONE. I saw a book called Yellowstone: Selected Photographs 1870-1960 by Carl Schreier. It has a large photo of a '27 Peerless Sedan being driven on muddy roads in this National Park. Not sure if car is stuck...but the roads were awful! 136. I was reading about a radio promotion on WJAZ, Chicago today: if you sent in a telegram giving your opinion of the Volstead Act, you could win a drawing. Good news: it was for a 1924 Peerless 7-passenger Touring. Bad news: it was in 1924. 47,000 people sent in telegrams and the $3,200 car was awarded. 137. At the 1923/24 New York Auto Show and Salon, a Peerless Sedan with body by Springfield Body Co. was exhibited to introduce a new line of luxury Peerlesses for 1924. "Springfield boasted that it was the first vehicle to include a radio as standard equipment", according to coachbuilt.com's site. 138. Many of us know about the Series 1 Peerless V-8 having a common ancestry w/ the Herschell-Spillman V-8 in 1916. I just read that the Pratt automobile came out with a Mod. 8-50 using a H-S 283 cu. in./74 hp V-8 in 1915. I thought all the H-S V-8's were 331.8 cu. in. Source: Elcar & Pratt Automobiles, by William S. Locke. 139. Don Bettes tells me that some 1923 Peerless Sedans used Fisher bodies. 140. A Peerless is on exhibit at the National Road/Zane Grey Museum in Norwich, Ohio. It is a 1930 Model Six-61 Sedan previously owned by William Howell.

Hi Ivana, It took me 4 days, but I finally figured out that you posted a 3rd photo & how to open it [the highlighted area]. Thanks for sending that! The third picture is of a 1928 Peerless Model 6-80 Roadster Coupe. I think it's the same car described in a 1973 Automobile Quarterly with a chapter about Peerless Maurice Hendry wrote. That issue of AQ (Vol. 11, No. 1) has one of the best descriptions of the Peerless Company out there. By coincidence, I have a 1928 Mod. 6-80 Roadster Coupe much like the one in the photo.

Dear Llopdoro, Thank you for posting the information and photos of the '26 Peerless Speedster. The photography is very good. It was interesting to read about the origins of your family name. Don't some Basques speak French Catalan, or do they simply speak Basque? I'm glad that more Europeans like yourself are appreciating prewar American autos. How many people are in the ACCF...and what are the most popular U.S. cars for them to collect and drive? About a year ago, a 1923 or 1924 Peerless Model 66 Touring was for sale by someone in Spain. Did you ever hear where it went? It was Blue with a Black top and a Peerless V-8. Thank you. ----Jeff

llopdoro, Thank you for writing about the 1917 Model 56 Peerless and welcome to the Peerless Forum. When this green car came up for auction three years ago, Bryan and I had a discussion about it here ( please see "Peerless Photos" thread ). Many thanks for sending the photos....for some reason, it takes me a long time to attach them to my messages, so I rarely do it. It's great to have two people from Belgium using the Peerless Forum now! Philippe sent me something you wrote earlier this year which I tried to translate. Apparently, you are a member of the American Car Club of France, the group for people in your area who collect American cars. Have you seen the recent posts on the "Peerless Research Findings" thread ( No. 128 and No. 129 )? There are two quotes from a 1930 French magazine about Peerless. Maybe you can translate them for us. I think one says: "To own a Peerless is equivalent to a letter of nobility" --- but my French is not very good.

Dear Ivana, In trying to identify your friend's Peerless, I should have added that the model-year-change didn't happen at the start of each year. Just as I was able to drive a 2010 Chevrolet Camaro in March, 2009, Peerless would introduce their next year's line of cars as early as November or August. This can be confusing at times. The Peerless Model 6-61 was probably available in 1928 (July, August, September?). I think there were genuine 1928 Model 6-91's, too (I saw an ad for a 6-91 published in May, 1928). Maybe you can translate this for me, which I found years ago in a Czech magazine: "Dedecek Peerless 1930 Popsat, ci vyfotografovat vsechny vozy by bylo pro jednoho cloveka nadlidskym ukolem. Vybral jsem si proto nejstarsiho ucastnika a automobil, ktery se mi nejvice libil." ----Jeff

A new car's shown up in the Czech Republic. Someone named Ivana wrote in to the General Discussion Forum a week ago asking for help in identifying the year and model of a friend's Peerless Coupe. It's a late Twenties car without much documentation...and no photos yet. Title of thread is "Please help identify". The owner of the Peerless found the car in Slovakia. He doesn't write in English, so needs to go through an interpreter. The auto could be a Coupe, Opera Coupe, or Victoria...a 6-61, 6-81, or even a 6-91. The serial number presented makes it sound like an extemely early-production 6-61.

Hello Ivana, If this Peerless in the Czech Republic is a 1927 or 1928 -- it probably is a Model 6-60, 6-80, 6-90, 6-72, or 8-69. If it is a 1929, it could be a 6-61, 6-81, 6-91, or 8-125. If the Peerless is a 1929 6-61, it has a Continental 214.7 cu. in. (3.518 L) motor with 62 h.p. If it were a 1929 6-81, it would have an engine prefix of 18C, 248 cu. in. (4.069 L), 66 h.p., and vertical hood louvers. If it's a 1929 6-61 -- the hood louvers would be horizontal. If your friend has a 1927-28 6-60, it would be a 199.1 cu. in. motor, have vertical hood louvers and a different engine prefix [ 10E 1-5754 or 11E 101-1000 ], to the best of my knowledge. ----Jeff

Dear Ivana, Thank you VERY much for writing about your friend's Peerless. I'll try to answer some of your questions. If you go to the Peerless Forum post "How to Identify your Peerless Serial number and Motor number" by PeerlessBelgium, it suggests this could be a Model 6-61 built in 1928 and 1929 for the 1929 Model Year. The prefix 11E suggests a Model 6-61 --- with a range of Ser Nos. from 11E 5200 to 11E 13297. Peerless was an interesting carmaker. All of their cars were expensive, except for 4 years of medium-priced models offered from 1926-1929 [even these were offered as alternatives to more expensive V-8 and straight-8 Peerlesses]. About 107,000 cars were sold between 1900-1932, making for an average production of only about 3,800 per year. I have been working on a list of all Peerlesses that still exist worldwide, and now have 303 listed, counting your friend's auto. Since my list has vehicles not well documented, and some cars listed more than once, and since there are a certain number of cars out there that no one knows about...I would estimate that there may be 250 to 500 surviving Peerless cars and trucks worldwide. Since you are new to the AACA Forums, please look at the Peerless Forum, found farther down on the list of about 90 AACA forums (Gen. Discussion, Buick, Oldsmobile, Dodge, Ford, Stutz, etc,) . There are more than 500 messages relating to Peerless there. Thank you, ----Jeff

Great pictures! That drawing looks like about a 1909 Peerless.