jeff_a

To add to what I said earlier about this 1931 Peerless, I originally thought it was on the official Peerless Club list of member's cars. It's not. Except for a small, 35-year-old photo of the car I found, no one I know seems to have ever heard of it. The car was just a "lead", and I wasn't sure it still existed. It's been in the same family for 50 years, I'm told by Mr. Woodland.

$39,000 sounds like a good price, depending on mechanical condition, paint and mileage. Let's see some of the pluses: _____322 cu. in. Straight Eight _____Rare (Peerlesses are rarer today than Duesenbergs) _____Low Production, at least compared to Packard (15,450) & Pierce-Arrow (about 4,500): Peerless production was 1,249 for 1931 _____Alexis de Sakhnoffsky-designed body (the 1930's and 1931's were arguably the most stylish Peerlesses built) _____Last Year of Production for Peerless (1900-1931)

Rusty, Thanks for your interest in the issue of Lincoln's conservative body design and whether it could be considered even more so than "The Three P's". I thought that was a little odd, but as I said, it is a quote, not my own idea. Personally, I like the original Leland-Built Lincolns. My family had one from 1921 to the 1970's. Milton Budlong [of York Motors] told Raymond Dietrich [of Le Baron Carrossiers, Inc.]: "I can't sell the Model L's. They are too conservative up against the three P's (Packard, Peerless, and Pierce-Arrow) and the imports." That was in the chapter "Lincoln Coachbuilders" in Marvin Arnold's book LINCOLN AND CONTINENTAL and is readable on www.storydomain.com. I have also found the term The Three P's used on a magazine ad promoting Peerless' new line of straight-8 motorcars in 1930...and in a 1930 edition of L'INDUSTRIE AUTOMOBILE et AERONAUTIQUE promoting the same line of cars, but from the perspective of someone in France. You would be correct in pointing out that the company's official slogan included: "All That The Name Implies" and not "One of the 3 P's of Fine Motordom", but not that "The Three P's" term was not used before the 1980's. If I could get a workable time machine going, I could go down to Automobile Row in New York or Chicago and ask people what the Three P's term meant with regard to cars. In my grandfather's youth, when both Pierce and Peerless went from De Dion Bouton-licensed 1-cylinder quadricycles to 824.8 cu. in. 6-cylinder-powered autos costing over $6,000, I think they would have known.

Great picture! Definitely a Peerless. I think it is a 1927 Model 6-60. The plating should be nickel, but by 1928 some Peerlesses were coming out with chrome plating. Peerless called their Boat Tail Coupes "Roadster Coupes"...and you could get them in five models with four different engines.

Steve M, Received my magazine yesterday, 12/1/10, but I live out in the Boonies and the mail spends two days on a truck to get here from Civilization.

Complete Packard single six engine minus carburetor. 1937-39 Packard 120 Sedan, "ran before going off embankment".

pepcak, Thank you for posting the photo of the Peerless in the Czech Republic. I have seen 5 black & white photos of it before -- but didn't know it was blue. I think it's a 1929 or 1930 Model 6-81 with a Continental 248 cu. in. six-cylinder motor. I read about the car in your picture about 4 years ago in an online Czech auto magazine. It was the oldest car at an all-American car show in a smaller town in your country. There are two Peerlesses in the Czech Republic now, that I know of. The other is a Coupe... possibly a 1929 Mod. 6-61.

141. I found an explanation as to why there are a number of 6-cylinder Peerless cars listed by their owners as 1930s -- aside from late titling. An August, 1975 Cars and Parts article by Menno Duerksen says that 6-61s built after September, 1929 were regarded as part of the 1930 line. 142. I found a document for sale on ebay today that was unusual: it implied a 1932 Peerless V-16 was given to a couple for a wedding present in 1932. This was a 1970's TRW ad. 143. Re: PRF #142. I think the car was given to them to take on their honeymoon to Saratoga Springs and back...and may not have been a permanent gift. There weren't that many V-16 Peerlesses floating around in 1932 (!!!) and this is most likely the same car in the Crawford Auto-Aviation Museum now. 144. Out of about 12,000 Peerless trucks that went to Europe during WWI, 64 were made into armored cars -- 16 of which went to Russia. 145. A Peerless sold at the RM Auction this fall for $200,750. 146. A green 1930 Peerless Standard 8 was listed for an auction at Dodaclassics in Missouri 4/11/10. Straight-8, Dual Sidemounts, very nice car! It is Pete Spagnotti's Sedan and, for whatever reason, was not sold. 147. I believe I found a picture of the '23 Peerless V-8 Phaeton recently for sale in Spain at the 1992 Hershey Meet.

Midnight Farmer, I just read this thread for the first time and was pleased to see the first photos you sent in. A lot better shape than I expected. Nice looking Pontiac! You were talking earlier with bofusmosby about how your car has a gangster look about it. I've heard that John Dillinger preferred '34 Terraplanes. But still, if you parked in front of a bank and got out wearing a double-breasted pin-stripe suit and a fedora...you might get a free ride in a police car (you might want to call your banker first on that one)! Seriously, if you wanted to make it available, your car could get a little work as a movie car someday.

Over 110 years ago, the following appeared in Horseless Age at the time of the New York Auto Show: "A CARRIAGE DESIGNER'S CRITICISMS By Expert "Peerless De Dion Motorette -- Gives one the idea it should be a small carriage, but in place of this in their type C they have a very large and heavy carriage with too light a gear. There is no side sweep or turn under to the sides and therefore the sides look hollow and slab-sided and the varnish does not appear at its best. Hang the job higher and put on higher and wooden wheels. Also lengthen out the springs for now they must ride jerky. "Ohio Automobile Co. -- Seems to have joints on top put on the wrong way. Just cut and weld knuckle joint so it will fall at handle. Front box needs shaping up. Give more flare to pillars and put on wood wheels." Note: These were among reviews of ten or twenty car companies in the Nov 7th, 1900 issue, p 50, VOL 7, No 6. The Ohio Automobile Co. was the name Packard used before it moved to Detroit.

I saw a '27 or '28 Velie Sedan at the Reynolds-Alberta Museum in Wetaskiwin, Alberta three years ago. Though it's not on display, they most likely still have it in their vast collection.

I came across an interesting quote yesterday about Peerless. Someone who sold Lincolns in the 1920's said he couldn't sell them because the body design was too conservative in comparison to that of The Three P's (Packard, Peerless & Pierce-Arrow).

It's fascinating to look at old ads from decades ago to see what you could have bought. Here are a couple of Duesies: "Bentley 1936 3 1/2 litre, Gurney Nutting Coupe, all aluminum body, needs work, no cylinder head, otherwise complete. $3,000.00." (Howell, NJ) ---Cars & Parts, July, 1975 "GMC Parade of Progress 1941 mammoth show van, 16 built, 25,000 original miles, beginning to rust, needs new home. Sides open to make stage. Roof elevates with fluorescents. Power steering, air conditioning, dual front wheels, Hydramatic. Great for flea market vendor or race car machine shop. Looks like diesel locomotive." (Niles MI) ---Cars & Parts, August, 1975

Dauro -- What is the car in your photo? Is it a Simca?

Double M, I like the Old Classics myself, but there's nothing wrong with liking the looks of post-Classic Era cars. There weren't too many Classic Cars built back in the old days of the 20's, 30's and 40's, and even fewer of them are survivors. That's why they're so expensive, in addition to the blending of art and technology in their design that has not, in my opinion, ever been equaled. What's great is that there are some overlooked Classics that can be found for not much more than a new 2010 car. 1920's Cadillacs and Lincolns come to mind. I like your inclusion of the Pontiac Solstice and Buick Reatta as New Classics, though I never even saw a Reatta until this year (I live kinda in the sticks). You certainly don't see them every day. Did John DeLorean have a hand in both the Fiero and the Reatta? He had a horse and cattle ranch out where I live. The Mazda Miatas that stealthbob mentioned are nicely-designed. Another interesting post-war car built was the Studebaker Avanti. A million or so Corvettes have been built, but not Avantis. To turn things around, if you found a '53 Corvette* with it's original six-cylinder motor, and offered it for sale here on the forums, you would have dozens of people trying to buy it, I suspect. One postwar car that's significant from an automotive history standpoint is the 1974 Mustang II: Motor Trend Car Of The Year, over 300,000 sold...but you NEVER see them anymore. I would love to find one in good shape and make a BHD** over it (trailering it to car shows, have someone do a 100-point restoration, etc) if I had the money. My point on the Mustang II is that you could get one cheap if you could find one, even if a lot of people aren't impressed by the 140 cu. in. engine or the fact that the Pinto was similar. I looked up some specs for Mustang II's (I couldn't remember the engine size) and was surprised to find that there's a "Mustang II Network" site with a registry and everything (4,093 cars in 54 countries). There was even a reprinted article from Mustang Monthly called "Has the 1974-78 Mustang II become a classic?" *Barely 300 made ** Big Huge Deal

Bernie, It's been interesting to watch your progress on your 1923 Packard Single Six. There's something to be said for the innovation of the "owner-driven" luxury car that Packard helped introduce, and I like this class of car. It's great making the connection between you and the series of articles about the Dixie Flyer that have been in the AACA Antique Automobile magazine. Regarding Lagondas, have you ever heard of an actor named Sebastian Cabot? He was in some American TV shows in the 1960's. A friend of my dad's knew him and told us he liked Lagondas (apparently he owned a 1937 Lagonda De Ville Town Car). I wish you the best of luck at your Victoria Sports Car Club Rally! ----Jeff

I looked at the article and thought it was, well, one man's opinion. Anybody on the Discussion Forum could have come up with their own list. Personally, I think the Gremlin was kind of cool when it came out. The Pacer was more bland by comparison...but I believe it's the model an insurance company reported that no one has ever tried to steal. The Mustang II was named Car of the Year when it came out.

I think it would be possible to buy a pair of touring cars, one a 1923 Cadillac and one a 1923 Peerless, and take them to car shows together. My guess is they would be pretty hard to tell apart. Both would have nearly identical radiator shells, and both would have V-8's. As near as I've been able to tell, the Peerless had the bigger engine {331.8 vs. 314.5}...and the most horsepower {70 vs. 60+}. Both would have had 2-wheel mechanical brakes. In '24, Cadillac went to 4-wheel mechanical and Peerless went to 4-wheel hydraulic brakes...and Cadillac's motor went to 83 h.p. Price for the Peerless 7-Passenger Touring Phaeton in 1923 was $2,990 -- and the Cadillac in that body style was $3,150 (later reduced to $2,885). Peerless production for the year was 5,400...Cadillac's was 23,009. No doubt most of the readers here have been to the Hi-Line Vintage Motor Museum in Rudyard, Montana since they opened in 2007.* They have a '24 Cadillac 7-Passenger Phaeton on display there. Great, large, imposing car! There's a '23 Cadillac Touring for sale in NC for $49,900, another in Illinois for $62,500**, and a '23 Peerless Mod. 66 Touring was for sale in Spain last year for only 73,000 euros (see "New Peerless Discovered" thread, post# 3 for a photo). Of these, the Peerless is the rarer car by far, and the prices accurately reflect this. * If you haven't you should drop in! ** this has 31,000 miles on it, though...amounting to just over 350 miles a year of wear and tear

I agree with nzcarnerd that it is an early Model L. The radiator emblem matches the one on the Lincoln my grandfather had and the p. 18 photo in Mark Patrick's Lincoln Motor Cars 1920-1942 Photo Archives. This one is silver plated and says "Leland-Built Lincoln" instead of "Ford Lincoln Detroit". In this book, all the '21, '22, '23 and '24 Lincolns appear to have rear wheel brakes only.

A 1927-1929 Peerless Coupe has recently been found in a barn in Slovakia and is about to be restored in the Czech Republic, where a collector of American cars already has a beautifully-restored 1930 Peerless Sedan. There is a car on display at a Russian military museum which may be a 1919 Peerless Armored Car. It could also be a Pierce-Arrow Armored Car. Either would be nice to have!

Philippe, Thank you for writing back to answer some of my questions. Your distant relative was probably a professor at Boise State University in Boise, Idaho. I helped Yann Saunders find the name of a V-16 owner once for his Cadillac V-16 database. At one time, there were a lot of Basque sheepherders in Wyoming and Idaho. I think there is a Basque Festival in Boise every year. I always wanted to visit Andorra, after reading a book about it 35 years ago. I was curious about the 1923 Peerless V-8 for two reasons. In my studies of Peerless cars and where they are located, I've never heard of a Peerless in France, Spain or Portugal except for that one, though I've heard of Peerlesses in 10 other European countries. Also, there's a very similar Peerless that's in Germany and I wondered if they could be "one and the same", as they say. I know about the car in South America. It was in Argentina and advertised on PreWarCar 2 or 3 years ago. Now someone in North Carolina has it for sale...though I don't know where the car is actually located. I think it may be a black (with red stripes) Model Six-81 Roadster, 1929.

I'll definitely tell you if I find a 1929 Peerless 6-61 for sale with everything but an engine!

Okay, Steve, here's my revised list: 1. 1900 Peerless Mod. A, Type 1..........................................1-Cylinder 2. 1910 Buick Mod. 17 Raceabout...........................................In-line 4 3. 1912 Peerless Mod. 60-Six Limousine [825 cu.in.]........................I-6 4. 1922 Lincoln [Leland-Built] Mod. L Sedan [357 cu. in.].................V-8 5. 1924 Peerless Mod. 6-70 Roadster [289 cu. in.]...........................I-6 6. 1925 Duesenberg Mod. A [260 cu. in.]........................................I-8 7. 1926 Elcar Mod. 8-81 Landau Roadster [299 cu. in.]....................I-8 8. 1928 Peerless Mod. 6-80 Roadster Coupe [230 cu. in.].................I-6 9. 1928 Packard Ser. 526 Coupe [289 cu. in.]..................................I-6 10. 1928 Pierce-Arrow Series 81 Coupe [289 cu. in.].........................I-6 11. 1928 Peerless Mod. 8-69 7-Pass. Custom Sedan [332 cu. in.]......V-8 12. 1929 Ford Mod. A Town Car [201 cu. in.]....................................I-4 13. 1929 Auburn Mod. 8-120 [244 cu. in.]........................................I-8 14. 1929 Cord L-29 [299 cu.in.]......................................................I-8 15. 1929 Peerless 8-125 Coupe [322 cu. in.].....................................I-8 16. 1932 Peerless Murphy Blind Rear Quarter Sedan [464 cu. in.]......V-16 17. 1935 Packard 120, Ser. 893 Sedan [282 cu. in.]...........................I-8 18. 1968 Lamborghini Miura [240 cu. in.]........................................V-12 I reduced the number of post WWII cars but still have one Ford and one GM on the list. The first car, a Model A, Type 1 Peerless, would be a real "Mission Impossible" to find. Supposedly, about 15 little Tri-Cycles were built in the first year Peerless built cars (1900-1901), but none have survived. There aren't even any photographs that have survived. If you found one , it would look like an 1899 or 1900 De Dion Bouton tricycle...but the Peerless version would seat more than one person (reportedly). This is on the list so I'd have a car to drive on the London-to-Brighton Motoring Rallye. If you want to get real technical, this is a 1901 Model, but it would qualify for London-Brighton. Cars No. 2, 4, and 7 were in the family collection for many decades. No. 2 apparently was intended for racing. Sold at auction 20 years ago when my grandfather (Glenn Brown of Hutchinson, KS) died. He was always of the opinion it was nearly identical to the cars on the Buick racing team circa 1909-1912 that dominated auto racing then. Maybe he thought that his Buick had some connection with Buick racer Glen Milton Breed who lived in the same town, briefly, and was on the Buick factory team 1905-1909. Car No. 4 was last seen in the Towe Auto Museum, Deer Lodge, Montana. One of the Lincolns built by Henry Leland prior to Ford having any connection to Lincoln. Car No. 5 would be a hard car to find, too. I hold out hope that there is a '24 Peerless Superb Six Roadster out there somewhere, but I doubt it. They were built and sold, but of all the Model 6-70's built, it appears only one has survived, a Phaeton. Car No. 16. This isn't the same car that's in the Crawford Auto-Aviation Museum. Car No. 17's significance, besides being a well-built car in its own right, is that it probably saved the Packard Company from going out of business in the Great Depression.

Ron, I'm sorry I was wrong about the car. It has been over 30 years since I saw the movie. I thought my Dad & Grandad had told me one car was a Kissel. They were there during the shooting of some scenes near Mt. Hope, Kansas and we were all at the Kansas premier in Hutchinson. I remember both were upset with the way it came out. If you read some of the reviews for the movie (all bad) that come up when you google the movie title, they talk about it having problems, people refusing to have their names on the credits, and the release being delayed a long time. My Grandfather was paid to provide his 1922 Lincoln Sedan for a background car. As far as my grandfather knew, the movie was just going to be a nice tale of a barnstormer in Kansas with a lot of rural scenery and old cars added in. Apparently, some producers decided to change the plot and filmed some new stuff which was added later. He said the original parts were fine but they messed it up back in Hollywood. My grandfather's Lincoln was supposed to be in several scenes, but we were disappointed that most of that was cut from the final version. There is one scene where various actors are in a cafe' and his car appears to have driven by for one 1/2-second. ----Jeff

Barry, What's the red roadster in Post No 16? A 1926 Jordan?