starfireelvis

To clarify, would a better word would be "until" 1955, as opposed to "through", at least as far as General Motors cars are concerned? Want to be accurate, but I think most GM cars were 12 volt BY 1955, i.e., through the end of the '54 model year. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I know Oldsmobile went 12-volt in 1953, and I would assume Cadillac and perhaps Buick did as well; I think Pontiac and I know Chevy didn't change until 1955. Maybe some of the other makes (not just Ford and Chrysler, but the other independents at the time) didn't change until after '55? Someone with more knowledge could fit the pieces of the puzzle together regarding this, as it is something I've wondered about myself. A related question would be when makes and models went from generators to alternators; perhaps another thread would be appropriate there.

I concur with what Oldsnut Paul said (that's a compliment!); the '61 and '62 full-size models have the vertical ridges, and the later ones he cited from the mid-'60s have the concentric circles. Do not know about interchangeability with other GM makes and models (if any).

If my memory serves me correctly, this vehicle was auctioned off at Barrett-Jackson in Scottsdale, Arizona this past January; the high bid was $28,000.

Not from a '62 Olds (the backs had ridges that ran from top to bottom). I do recall the concentric circles being on mirrors for mid-'60s Oldsmobiles, like my Dad's '65 Starfire. Don't have a Fusick's manual at my fingertips before bedtime, but I'm pretty sure this is for a full-size mid-'60s Olds.

Good deal, Dave. By the way, was your car in Minneapolis (Bloomington) for the 2004 OCA Nationals? I think it was, and if so, you've got an early '61 Starfire for sure! There was an Azure Mist '61 Starfire convertible (as they all were) a couple of years back at the Motorcar Portfolio in Canton, Ohio; it was there and gone in a hurry, before I had a chance to see it in person.

That is interesting--as it took GM 7 years (from '55 to '62) to go from 50 million to 75 million, it took Oldsmobile 7 years (again, '55 to '62) to go from 5 million to 7.5 million--exact same rate of growth. Were we making cars or what?!?! I can't help but think, as an Oldsmobile guy, I am reminded about, how in one generation, how the company Ransom E. Olds founded in 1897 went from producing the most popular car for nearly a decade in the Olds Cutlass, to becoming extinct in 2004. I will keep this in the context of the domestic automobile industry, but what I'm about to say seems to apply in large part to nearly everything in our society today. I would dare say that that era of the mid-'50s/early '60s represents, in so many ways, when America was at its finest, in terms of making real progress, and the hearts and minds of its citizens had tremendous hopes and dreams of what the future would bring. I can only hope that the General and Mopar can once again become private institutions, and recapture their former glories.

Have had some nice days in the 50s and low 60s the last week or so, and a couple of rains to wash all the sludge and salt off the roads. Got home late tonight before dusk and took the '62 Starfire out for its first ride since last October; in fact, I think it's been parked in the garage since coming home from Fall Hershey, though I'm one of those guys who starts it every week or two during the winter months and let it run for a good 20-30 minutes to make sure all the moisture is out, and to keep things loose and limber. Did a dozen-mile round trip, as I went to the Sunoco station, topped off the tank with the 94 octane, put some 104 octane boost in it, and the whole way it felt and sounded great, especially with the Sirius boombox plugged into the lighter, and switching between the '50s channel and the Elvis channel (and an occasional listen to the NFL network on there), but had the radio off for a good deal of the way as well to hear that Oldsmobile rumble they were famous for back in those days. Saturday is the first day of Spring, but I have to work, and Sunday looks like rain and cooler, so this was the time to do it!

Steve, Thanks for the quick response--I appreciate it! Don't worry--good Lord willing, I'll be there no matter what! Mike

133K on the '62 Starfire Coupe (49K of which are mine) 67K on the '62 Dynamic 88 Fiesta Wagon, a little over 2K are mine (finally pulled the trigger on the engine rebuild!) As for the "daily drivers", my '90 Trofeo' has 204K on it, 18K are mine (although it reads 104K--once it hit 199,999.9, it went back to 100,000.0!) The '90 Cutlass Supreme I use for my "work car" has 146K on it (bought it with 56K on it), and the '89 Cutlass Supreme, which I bought new, is likely on its last legs, with a guesstimate of 218K on it (the odometers for both of the Cutlasses max out at 199,999.9, once it hits 200K it reads "ERROR", and I had used the trip odometer, and gas receipts, to calculate the miles).

One of the things I try to do before the upcoming car show season starts is to try to get my plans together for the big shows I'd like to attend. Just a personal preference, but once the weather breaks and it's time to take the car out, I'd like to have all the registrations and reservations done and behind me, so I can concentrate on having FUN! (also like to do this while I have the dollars from my income tax return available before it burns a hole in my pocket) That being said, is there any way to register my car for Fall Hershey prior to the customary date around July 1st? No big deal, really, as I always remind myself to take care of things while I have a couple of days off around the Fourth, but if I can get it out of the way early, it would be nice to have the option. Thanks in advance, Mike

I seem to recall reading a story back around the time that Oldsmobiles finally shut their lines down for good (4/29/2004) that the total number of Oldsmobiles ever built was in the 35 million range (from 1897 through 2004). There is a picture dated 1/11/62 in "Setting The Pace", the fine history of Oldsmobile book from Helen Jones Earley and Jim Walkinshaw, that shows the 7,500,000 Oldsmobile built was a 1962 Starfire Coupe. But, that is the total number of Oldsmobiles from day one; I think the 5 millionth Oldsmobile was produced during the 1955 model year. Just a piece of the puzzle, but hope it helps some.

Put me on that list, too...!!!

I have a 56 olds with the vin 569M32674 The 56 would be the year (1956) 9 would be the model (Ninety-Eight) M should be Lansing, Michigan The rest of the number is the sequence of production, starting at 01001; that would mean the car was the 31,674th built off the Lansing line. Your Fisher Body Plate would tell you more, about paint and trim codes, and options. If the FBP is like the one on my '62 Olds Starfire, in the upper left corner are two numbers and a letter, such as "07A", which is on my car. That means the car was built the first week of July, 1962. B would be the 2nd 2 week, C the 3rd, D the 4th, and E the 5th (for those months with five weeks). A 9 through 12 would mean the car was built the previous calendar year (i.e., '62 Oldsmobiles were being built starting in September of '61). Using that as a guideline, you can see the month and week your car was built, in either late '55 or early '56. Mike

I would check the literature to see if Chevrolet did have a factory trailer hitch offered in '56. Of course, for judging purposes, the hitch should be the authentic one, as opposed to an aftermarket one. As an aside, my buddy "Impala Jim" Fuller just obtained a neat (and I would guess rare) '65 Chevrolet brochure that shows, a decade later, Chevy did indeed offer a factory trailer hitch option, so perhaps one could be ordered back in '56.

Every car has a story; I wholeheartedly believe that. What I love about the AACA in general and going to Fall Hershey in particular, is that you see each car as it was without modification, and if the car is a base-line model, so be it. This is the case whether a vehicle has undergone a frame-off restoration, or is an HPOF survivor. Sure, I am a sucker for the big, sexy cars (being an Olds guy, cars like the '61-'66 Starfire or a Ninety-Eight). But, just as much as I love these cars, I tremendously appreciate a good ol' 88 (later Dynamic 88 as the '50s turned into the '60s). Same deal with seeing a Catalina, as opposed to a Grand Prix, or a Biscayne in contrast with an Impala. And, though I am sure others older than me could attest to this with far more recollection than I can provide (being a mere 46), let's face it--there were way more of the base-model or mid-model cars produced than the top-of-the-line cars that are now seen in a more plentiful fashion. Most of them were used, sometimes abused, and just provided basic transportation in its day (albeit in a much more exciting fashion than today's BLAH vehicles); as a result, most ended up in the salvage yard. In a sense, the station wagon also tends to be more of a practical vehicle. although I'm fairly sure that they tended to be in the middle of the pricing hierarchy than toward the bottom. Sure, there were stylish exceptions like the '55-'57 Chevy Nomad, but I would venture to say that a great deal of wagons produced were based upon the base-to-midline models (for example, Olds had a Dynamic 88 and Super 88 full-size wagon from '57-'64, known as the Fiesta, but there were no corresponding Ninety-Eight or Starfire counterpart). As for the "love" of the price leaders, the '62 D88 Fiesta wagon I'm in the process of getting back on the road was listed at $3,460 (base) back in 1962 (as a two-seater); by comparison, the lowest full-size for Olds in '62 was their D88 Celebrity (post) sedan, at just three bucks shy of $3K; while the most expensive Rocket, not surprisingly, was the Starfire convertible with a base tag of $4,744. In contrast with the black '62 Starfire coupe I have, the wagon is white, has scant chrome being an 88, features dog-dishes as opposed to spinners, and about the only "pricey" option it has is the power rear-window (a whopping $28.62 in its day). So, with apologies to Dennis Gage, enjoy those classics, as they are and were. In closing, this month's Hemming's Classic Car features a lot of nice six-cylinder Chevrolets, which of course were mainly found in the low-cost models like the 150 and Biscayne.

Looks like things are coming along pretty good--glad to see the progress that has been made so far. Will be checking back quite a bit to see what's shaking, as they say. Good luck! Mike

Thanks for bringing this to everyone's attention, Glenn; definitely one of my heroes without doubt. I've put my two cents in on the thread...

They often call me Speedo but my real name is Mr. Earl... Is that how the old song goes (by, ironically enough, the Cadillacs!)? Always wondered if there was a purposeful connection there. If I had a pick of ten people I would want to sit down and talk with, Harley Earl would be in there for sure. Anyone who loves the styling of, in particular, the post-war era, the fifties, and by extension (through Bill Mitchell) the sixties, etc., owes Mr. Earl a debt of gratitude, for sure (not to mention his ground-breaking work as the GM Art and Colour chief as far back as the twenties, and his fantastic concepts like the Y-Job in '38, and the '51 LeSabre). I have read that Earl was an imposing figure, a taskmaster for sure, but someone who demanded excellence, and that's what we got with General Motors during its glory years, when, as GM went, so went the nation (I shudder to think that's as true today...) Guys like Earl must be rolling over in their grave at the current state of the domestic automobile industry--if only we had LEADERS like him who would have the onions to stand up to the forces that have led to today's predicament (and there's enough blame to go around, for sure), we'd surely be better off. But, these are mere words which we are tossing about--the real genius of Earl (and his contemporaries, not only at GM but Ford and Chrysler as well as the independents) can be seen in the vehicles that all of us cherish today, and which makes events like Fall Hershey a celebration of their legacies.

Sorry to hear about Mr. Roll; I had the pleasure of meeting him with the late Tom Hearn about six or seven years ago, when Tom and his son were rebuilding the engine and doing some restoration work on my '62 Olds Starfire. At that time, I was looking to have the interior re-done to factory specifications, and Tom took me down to see Jim; needless to say I was impressed with his knowledge of the various grains, styles, and the finer points of interior restoration. At the time, Jim was not in the best of health, but he did recommend for me a protege of his whom had learned his craft from him, and who did a great job restoring the two-tone leather and vinyl (Olds called it "morrocceen" interior) for my Starfire.

About a dozen years ago, the Great Race came through the city of Canton, Ohio, and Coker Tire was there as a vendor. At the time, I couldn't find a radial that was the correct equivalent size and whitewall width for my car. Decided to take a trip to their trailer, and ran into Corky Coker myself. I told him what kind of car I had, and before I could tell him what I was looking for, he already knew the size and ww I needed. He promised that they would soon come out with what I was looking for, and a couple years later, they did. I have had no problems with Coker Radials, but I hear that other vendors provide good product as well (Lucas, Diamondback, Universal). Just do your homework. As for the AACA judging, what I have done is obtained a complete set of five wheels that fit my car. Since I drive 2-3,000 miles a year on my car, I have the radials on during the spring and summer months, and right before I go to Fall Hershey for the AACA meet, I switch them over to the bias-plys, and keep them on until the next show season (and first long trip) begins. To me, it's a personal preference, I just like the way radials handle, though the bias-plys aren't really a problem, if you just keep your hands on the steering wheel like you should, and pay attention on the curves (and any grooves in the road). Drive 650-mile round trip to Hershey and back on them, and have never had a problem.

Let me just add, that "texting" while driving is completely insane and should be banned. Hell, I type 80 words a minute and have never texted in my life. I gotta let someone know something that bad, I'll call 'em. To each their own, but it seems like texting is just the 21st century way of passing notes to each other in class.

This is a touchy topic for me. Yes, I whole-heartedly agree that there are bimbos and idiots who can't chew gum and walk at the same time, nor can they apparently drive and talk on the cell phone. But, do you talk to someone in your car while you're driving? Or listen to the radio? Would some namby-pamby do-gooder try to say those, too, are "distractions"? I know I like to have a cup of coffee or a cold beverage while I drive sometimes--even in my old car. (And, shhhh--I sometimes munch down on a burger or donut while I'm at it). Will those, too, someday, be "banned"? I just fear that our already too-intrusive big brother government is going to take away one more ounce of freedom that I have. I don't want to make this political, but look at the lawmakers and judges (who aren't supposed to be lawmakers, but merely interpret the law--famous last words, eh?) who are already trying to put the screws to our hobby by direct legislation or edict, or end up doing so as a result of "unintended consequences resulting from good-hearted intentions". My God, you can't even chrome an oil cap for a '62 Olds Starfire in Minnesota (yes, that's true). Just don't want to start down the "slippery slope", and next thing you know, they'll be banning what you can eat (case in point--New York City's recent and proposed bans on what you can and can't use in preparing food).

Not to be confused with the car I have owned for 14 years, but I did buy another black '62 Olds Starfire Coupe from a guy who actually lived in my same neighborhood; he had kept the car in an old garage with a dirt floor. The day I brought the car home, my cousin lifted out the back seat to see if he could find a build sheet for the car; instead, he found a dead mouse skeleton. Didn't panic too much; no other critters were to be found, amazingly enough, and I did enjoy the car for a couple of years before I sold it. (As Paul Harvey says, the rest of the story is that I had the car titled over to me on December 12, 2000--the very day General Motors pulled the plug on Oldsmobile. And, as far as who I sold it to later on, ironically enough, it was--General Motors, as the fine folks at the Heritage Collection restored the car to its original glory.) Have seen the car several times since then, and rest assured, there hasn't been any mice in sight...

I should add that, regarding the 1% factor, that the figure would naturally be much higher for a car that would have been more instantly deemed to be "collectible", such as a convertible, or a high-end limited edition car such as a Chrysler 300, a Chevy Corvette, or the two-seater Lincoln Continentals cited earlier (BTW, the white '56 Elvis bought new and was kept at Graceland until a few years ago, went for over $250,000 at an auction about five years ago). Cars that could be considered to be, to use the phrase, "a class by itself" were not as likely to be ridden hard and put away wet. It often crosses my mind whenever I go to a gathering of old cars, whether it be at Hershey, or just down the street on a Sunday afternoon, just who were the people who took care of those classics we can still enjoy, and if only there was a way to somehow recognize who they were, and thank them for doing so. It definitely is the exception and not the rule that the current owner can have such an opportunity, if they bought the car from the original owner or family, or a long-time owner if they weren't the ones who bought it from the showroom.

I, too, sent away about ten years ago to the Automotive Clearinghouse (or whatever it was/is called) around San Diego, for info regarding my '62 Olds Starfire Coupe. It cost about $20 (back then), and they must do some sort of title search. Checking the document they sent me on 9/9/98, they stated that there were 364 '62 SF Coupes in the country, with 8 in Ohio (which means I owned 25% of those in the Buckeye State back when I had the other one that now is part of the GM Heritage Collection). Would be nice to have one of those desktop calendars featuring one Starfire for each day of the year... My friend Ted Loranz up in Massachusetts must have did the same thing; his '62 Starfire Convertible was featured in Hemmings Muscle Car a couple of years back, and I believe it stated there were 112 ragtops left in the US. Again, I would emphasize that these must account for "registered" cars, don't know how they would track cars that have been parked in barns for decades. Given the total production of 1962 Starfires (just under 35,000 coupes, and just over 7,000 convertibles), the extrapolated number of less than 500 '62 Starfires that can be accounted for would seem to confirm the 1% survival rate, at least as it pertains to titled cars.