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From today’s Buffalo News (Friday, October 19, 2007): “With $3 million in state support finally received, the long-idling Buffalo Transportation/Pierce-Arrow Museum expansion project is ready to shift into gear. The start of construction next spring will reveal a major change in the $10 million expansion: the replica of the Frank Lloyd Wright filling station that was to stand outside the Michigan Avenue museum will instead be enclosed in a glass-walled atrium. Moving the one-of-a-kind structure indoors will protect it—and museum visitors—from the region’s harsh winters, said museum director James T. Sandoro, who on Saturday will auction about 40 vintage automobiles donated by fellow collectors. Proceeds will be used to buy class Buffalo-built Pierce-Arrows and other cars for the museum’s permanent collection. A ceremonial groundbreaking for the gas station, designed by Wright in the early 1930s for Harris Oil Co., which never built it, was held in July 2003. Gov. George Pataki pledged to invest $3 million from the scuttled Adelphia Communications office tower plan in the unique building, which was to have been completed the following year. Wright’s revolutionary design included a fireplace, a ladies’ lounge and an exterior that faintly recalls his prairie-style houses. But the state dragged its feet, stalling not only the filling station but several other projects waiting for millions of dollars originally earmarked for the Adelphia building. ‘But it’s finally going to happen,’ Sandoro said. ‘Cranes will go up in the spring.’ He praised Gov. Eliot L. Spitzer and Kenneth A. Schoetz, chief operating officer of Empire State Development Corp., for breaking the funding logjam. A campaign to raise $7 million to improve and expand the current museum building as well as a four-story annex on Swan Street will be announced soon, Sandoro said. Saturday’s auction will start at noon. Vehicles to be sold can be viewed online at www.pierce-arrow.com .” By Tom Buckham, News Staff Reporter

What's the official ruling on dogs? One couple's hi-fi Fifi Boo-Boo did its loose, runny, and stinking thing on the blacktop directly in front of my spaces on the Green field. They unapologetically walked off and left me to either clean up after them or smell it all day and have it tromped into my spaces, which are also my living quarters for the week. I was a mite unappreciative.

I was glad to have been able buy the T-shirt because I knew that that was as close as I and 99.8% of other Forum folks would be able to get to the Ltd.

I really got the sense from those who were upset that it was the advertising of the flea market as being in full swing on Saturday that annoyed them. I've been going to Hershey since 1986 so like nearly all of us I'm kind of an insider. I, personally, know "The Way Things Are" as it relates to the EFM. But if we are to attract "new blood" we need to see things as they do. If I drove 300 miles and slept in my car on the strength of an advertisement that turned out to be not accurate I'd be ticked too.

I sure heard from some of the Saturday Nobodies!

It's really too bad that so many do pack up on Friday. Last year I was about the only one within eyeshot still set up Saturday morning. Very few came way over to see me and the entire morning was totally shot from a seller's standpoint. I heard many complaints from those who did show. One fellow related how he couldn't get off work during the week, so he drove 500 miles Friday night, slept in his car, and was greeted by "flea market" fields 80% empty. The comment I heard repeated the most was "if it's advertised as being in operation on Saturday, it really should be." There ought to be some way to fix it.

Totally accepted. Glad you see that I meant respect, not the opposite.

Windy, despite the offense taken, you did indeed get the point of my post. Dave, you are absolutely right about my point: the dazzling perfection at the shows, never produced by the assembly line, always elicits comments from those who were there when they were new. No way was anything even remotely derogatory intended, either towards the elderly or the restorer. Since no one in my family was ever "into" antique autos, when I bought my first T, I sought out the advice of senior citizens, who knew the most about them. That car's engine was rebuilt by my friend Monty, a 93-year-old mechanic who had worked for Ford and who had personally assisted with building the car in the first place. I listened with the deepest respect as he told me his personal impressions of Henry Ford, having met the man personally on several occasions. Monty remained active until his rented garage burned to the ground, taking a lifetime of special tools and literature with it. I personally helped him sift through the ashes to see if anything could be recovered. Monty would poke sadly at the rubble with his cane, directing me to pick a twisted piece of junk, and inform me that it "used to be a gauge that I bought to measure compression on Simplex engines. Cost me two day's wages in 1911." Or he'd poke at a charred book that turned out to be the lower half of a repair manual for Peerless autos. A few months afterward, this fiercely independent man, who had survived through the wars, the Great Depression, the loss of his wife at a young age and the suicide of his adult son, his only child, had to enter a care facilty where he passed away at age 98 after only a few months of dependency. Many of his mechanic friends, in their 70s and 80s, who looked on him as their mentor, would join us in the garage. The experience that gathered there defies description. These men still worked on modern cars every day, and they immensely enjoyed conferring over that T engine that they all remembered so well. The loss of the garage and Monty pretty well ended it all. When I attend a show, I see Monty in nearly every oldtimer, and it really brings him back for me when they say, at almost every show,--just like he did--that they "were never like that when they were new!" And because of my time with him, and all that he taught me, I absolutely believe them when they say it.

It never fails: walking around a show of any size, some old-timer, usually with a cane, who remembers the cars when they were new can be heard derisively snorting that "they were never that nice!"

He wanted a garage; she wanted a living room. Looks like a reasonable compromise to me.

Thanks Rick!

I'm assuming that the Chautauqua Lake Region's annual flea market at Dunkirk is May 18-20 this year. Can anyone confirm this? Thanks.

You da man, Al.

Personally, I'd like to see allowances made for items/devices that make the car road legal, such as period-correct license plate holders on brass or nickel era vehicles. It's a pain to have to take these things off (or to be able to remember to) before showing the car.

Sometimes things go the other way because of auction laws. An auction outfit scheduled a sale to disperse the contents of a defunct machine shop and an unexpected blizzard kept attendance way down. Legally, they couldn't postpone or cancel it so they had to go through with it. Bidders were walking off with $10,000 lathes and mills for 100 bucks.

True--but this also can work against you, as when politicians get cozy with big developers. Read the following from Walter Williams' column today: "Recently, the city of Port Chester, N.Y., gave a private developer virtual power to condemn property within its designated redevelopment area. Bart Didden and Dominick Bologna, owners of property within the redevelopment area, approached the private developer for a permit to build a CVS pharmacy on their land. The developer told them to pay him $800,000 or give him a 50 percent interest in the CVS pharmacy or he'd have the local government condemn the land. Didden and Bologna refused, and the next day their land was condemned. The 2nd U.S Circuit Court of Appeals upheld the local government's decision, which is nothing less than sanctioning extortion." If you don't want this sort of thing happening to you--and if it can happen in this case, it CAN happen to you--don't just cluck your tongue and shake your head. STUDY THE RECORDS of politicians running for re-election; ask the candidates their views of private property rights; support those who support this most basic right, and by all means VOTE and encourage others to do the same. The title of Williams' column is "Sometimes We Ask For It," and anyone unwilling to take these steps definitely "asks for it."

Does anyone know of someone who could haul a crated Model T touring body from Chickasha to southern MN after the meet this year??

I once saw a junkyard with a Model T rear brake drum mounted high on pole. A small ball pein hammer was mounted below it with a hole drilled through the handle for a lag screw pivot. A clothesline was attached to the end of the handle. Help was summoned by the customer pulling the rope which lifted the head of the hammer and it smacked the drum, making a loud clear ringing sound. The pivot hole was drilled in a spot on the handle that allowed the head to swivel back down after hitting the drum. Simple and very effective.

It's entirely possible, if not actually probable, that some repro lead/acid batteries aren't up to par, but before blaming the mfr., may I respectfully say: let's make sure that we aren't in some way to blame. The worst thing you can do to a lead/acid battery is to store it at less than full charge. This will cut its life by 1/2 to 2/3. You need to keep it 100% charged or it WILL fail prematurely. That's 100%, not 90% or 110%. If the buyer does everything recommended by the mfr. and the battery fails early on, then the maker needs to step up in some way. To illustrate: I reproduce and repair early wood ignition coils. These units will be damaged by a common practice which actually constitues abuse: connecting power up to the coil without making provision for a spark break, just to "check" it by hearing it vibrate or "buzz," as they like to say. Even if only done once, for a short time, it is abuse because the energy produced by the high tension winding has to dissipate, and it will do so inside the coil which WILL damage it. Despite enclosing a separate slip with a warning and a warranty disclaimer, coil buyers do it anyway and then return the damaged (or as they claim, "defective") unit for a replacement. Does this reflect on the quality of my reproductions or my work? The literacy of the buyer? The alignment of the planets???

No one here is saying that auctioneers should philanthropically donate their time. They are as entitled as I to be compensated for their services. But this "buyer's premium" nonsense is like me restoring your neighbor's car and then handing you the bill for it. The service is provided to the seller, who alone should pay for the service rendered. I agree with you that those who share our disgust at the whole scam shouldn't encourage them with our attendance; only go to auctions that advertise "NO buyer's premium!" which several houses around here do. When I read the weekly events and see the words "buyer's premium" I turn the page without a glance at the listing. It's the only way to be heard on the issue. Those who pay "buyer's premiums"...deserve to.

Don't forget "Personal Seat Licenses." <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

"...he knows how to treat people and make them feel welcome - customer service is paramount to him..." Like the stereotypical used-car salesman who showers flattery and flowers on a prospect while stuffing banana peels in the punkin: no disrespect intended to anyone, but someone who actually pays a guy to jack every last nickel out of his pockets, i.e. pays a "buyer's premium" to someone who also charges the seller a commission + a "registration fee", had BETTER get the "full treatment" from the spats-and-pinstripes gang. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> No doubt my trade ethics have failed to keep up with the times, but that's what I hold to be self-evident and I ain't changin' my mind, or what remains of it.

Reminds me of August '04, when we went to Sweden for a Model T tour (36 cars). Stopped at a pizza joint on one the bazillion lakes in that part of the country, and the young waiter's excellent American English led us to inquire how he'd acquired it. He said he'd been an exchange student in the US in a small city that he "knew we'd never heard of" called Binghamton, NY. Living only 180 mi. E. of there, we had a good laugh about it.

OK; say I have a 1914 Model T, a year for which many reproduction parts have become available. Say the car has an original chassis, with only a few reproduction parts, but the body is about 80% repop(all wood and most sheetmetal). Do I then have a "clone," a "replica," or a "restoration?" <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

OK, everyone: What's your biggest automotive regret? What did you let get away that was later lost for good? For me, the article on the '39 Plymouth in the latest AA evoked memories of the '39 Plymouth woodie parked on a swampy hill on property we had just bought, in the mid-70s. We let it sit there and slowly rot into the ground. It could have been saved, when we first came on it. Sob!