Hubert_25-25

Mark, Looking good so far, but I need to point something out. The back side of the rear toneau wood is reserved for attaching the top. The top of the back seat is installed like the front seat back. The seat back tacks are installed vertically. The arm rests do curl over and are attached with horizontal tacks. This is because the gypsy curtains are held with "pull the dots" and "pull the dot studs" on the outside of the armrests. There is a transition where the top rest comes out between the two. The other interesting thing about Buick Touring cars is that the seat trim in the rear is different than what is used on the front seat. The rear seat trim is a folded over design with decorative nail heads. The trim across the top of the front seat is hidem. Looking at the back of the front seat, they used the folded trim with the decorative nails on each side. Hugh

Ken, Here are the factory dimensions on the oil shedder felt. A little late but they are in the big parts book. The book should have the dimensions on the other felt used as well. Hugh

If you have a Buick Standard, Myers Early Dodge has a replacement fuel gauge that will work. More importantly they have the nickeled threaded bezel cap that holds all the parts to the gas tank. You will have to ask for the Buick one. If you are wanting to make it look like it came from Buick, you can replicate the gas gauge without too much trouble.

Kevin, Thank you for the dimensions. When I first saw it on Ebay, I bought it because it looked like the Buick wrench that I was supposed to have. I figured that in a tool kit, no one would know that it did not fit. Later I found the right size so this one got moved to the "find a new home" box. I will put it with your speedometers to share the ride in the shipping box. Hugh

I have an extra hub cap wrench that looks just like the one for my 1925 Buick Standard, but this is larger. The hubcaps are 8 sided, not 6 like a regular fastener. I know the hubcap size increased in 1926 with the aluminum caps, but I do not know if this is correct for a later Buick or if it may also fit a Buick Master. Does anyone have an idea if this fits a Buick? Thank you Hugh

This is called the mural of the life and death of Poncho Villa. It is located in the Plaza in downtown Chihuahua Mexico. Pershing used a fleet of 250 Dodge Brothers cars to chase Poncho Villa and his gang in Mexico. After one shoot out, a young lieutenant, George S. Patton, returned with the bodies of three of Villa's men strapped across the hoods of three Dodge Brothers touring cars.

Kevin, I would have to agree with you that there is a greater likelihood that this is a 1926/27 than a 1925 Buick. 1925 had the fluted headlight reflector and flat glass (shown below). This car has fluted glass (your photo and the 1st photo). I changed the title and descriptor until I know better. Hugh

Look behind the 1917-18 Buick is a 1926/27 Buick and a 1923 Cadillac. Not sure if the Buick is a Master or Standard yet, or body style. Not mine - helping a good friend with a posting. Good friend is helping his good friend find new homes for stuff. This note will be edited as I learn more. Car is located in Canaan CT. Owner is not good with a camera. Still gathering details but owner is losing storage after 30 years. Contact is Vin (978)758-0834

1923 Cadillac Service Car for sale. Look in the background behind the 1917-18 Buick Touring - also for sale. Not mine - helping a good friend with a posting. Good friend is helping another good friend with moving his stuff. This note will be edited as I learn more. Car is located in Canaan CT. Owner is not good with a camera. Contact is Vin (978)758-0834

One of these? PM me if you are interested. Hugh

Nick, The U-30 or the CC-2 is the universal 67" speedometer cable for your Buick. Longer won't hurt a thing. Shorter won't reach. You can find one on Ebay. Hugh

1917-18 Buick Touring. Has a great painted frame and restored engine and sheetmetal. The body photos just show the sheetmetal set together on the floor. That is why it looks disjointed. The painted frame and restored engine is in another barn. Both motor and transmission have been gone thru. Good axles and wheels.Owner is losing storage after 30 years. $2500 Not mine - helping a good friend with a posting. This note will be edited as I learn more. Car is located in Canaan CT. If you look in the background is a 1925 Buick and a 1923 Cadillac service car. Also for sale. Owner is not good with a camera. Contact is Vin (978)758-0834

Edwin, These are great cars to learn on. They drive well and are good for around town. 40 MPH is a good "top speed" once sorted. The below notes are not to detract you from the purchase, but to use as leverage on the price so the seller knows that there are a lot of unknown's and a lot that needs to be fixed. You have not said if the engine turns over. These are not ones to just crank over, as a person needs to see if the water pump will turn first. See the notes below as you do not want to damage the timing gear, and it could be damaged already. This car has sat neglected for years and my first order of business would be to drop the oil pan as well. The next big item is the lack of a top. Likely long grain vinyl. You really need to do an inspection of the wood frame to see if there is additional wood damage. I would start negotions below $5,000 and see how much luck you have. You should create a long list to show him the cost to sort all the issues. Then there is the price of the car even if it were just running with no top. That is another value point, and the cost of getting to that stage is not cheap either. Ask if he is willing to help a young guy out in his education. Below is my new Buick owners guide so you understand and can have some ammunition to work the price down. Best of luck. Hugh New Buick Owners Guide & Prewar Starting guide. Hugh Leidlein 12-18-20 C Welcome to Buick ownership. Here are some tips to get you started. The following books are necessary for Pre war Buick Ownership. They come based on 4 cylinder or 6 cylinder models prior to 1925, or for Standard or Master 1925 and up. Basically around 115” wheelbase is the smaller Buick series and 120 to 128” wheelbase is the larger Buick series. The Buick Heritage Alliance sells the following books. The quality of the copies is only “fair” in many cases. This may work for some people, depending on how many pieces your car is missing or needing. I suggest buying an original book of parts if you can find it due to the better print quality. 1) The “Book of Parts” for your year. 2) The “Shop Manual” for your year 3) The “reference book” for your year (of lesser importance if you can find a shop manual). It is helpful in many cases to obtain copies of the parts books for 1 or 2 years before and after your model year. Many times there is additional information or photos that will help with your understanding. Note: Only a handful of parts used on a 4 cylinder model fit a 6 cylinder model. Same with so few Standard parts will fit a Master. The 4 cylinder line became the Standard, and the 6 cylinder line became the Master so there is interchangeability in that order. Parts interchange is closest based on wheelbase of the models There is also available a big book of parts “Buick Master Parts List 1916-1932”. This 3” thick book provides a listing of the yea rs and models for each part. You will have better luck finding a part knowing it’s year and model range rather than just looking for a single year. This book does not have a lot of pictures and will not be a good substitute for the book of parts for your year, but I refer to this book frequently. Some find it of little use - based on how many parts they are missing. There are almost zero “exploded views” of parts, so take a lot of photos and notes during disassembly. ------------ Precautions------ THESE ARE NOT MODERN ENGINES------Damage can occur. The first order is usually to see if the engine will turn over. Do the following first. 1) Pull the Water pump hoses The water pump is on the side of the motor. The issue is that the camshaft gear is fiber on 1924-1928 Buick 6 cylinders, and it drives the waterpump. If the water pump is frozen or drags, it will destroy the timing gear teeth. Parts will fall in the engine. The camshaft gears are expensive and new gears are not of the same quality as the originals. The first order of business should be to remove the water pump hoses to ensure the pump rotates on the shaft. Without the hoses, it should rotate 180 degrees. Note that some earlier models have a water pump housing bolt that also needs to be removed. Water pump shafts are steel unless a recent replacement to stainless. The water pump bearings are bronze. If the antifreeze was not cared for, rust on the WP shaft could wear the bronze bearings out quickly. The WP seal is graphite packing. The wear surface should be smooth and the packing should only be tight enough to prevent major leaks of the waterpump. It should drip a little bit here and there. If it does not, the packing is too tight. Most people replace the shaft with a stainless steel shaft. 2) Change the oil (and filter if it has one). Strongly consider dropping the oil pan as well. An oil change is probably long overdue. Don’t cut corners and skip dropping the pan. Pre 1926 cars had no oil filter. Non detergent oil was used for years, and there is likely a lot of sludge in the oil pan. I have seen the oil pick up screens clogged from sludge, and this will starve the engine and could suck the screen in. Bob’s Automobilia or Olsons Gaskets has an oil pan gasket set. This is not a hard job. 3) Oil the Cylinders Pull the spark plugs, put some oil in the cylinders. If penetrating oil or Marvel mystery oil was used in the cylinders, you must follow it with regular oil once the engine begins to turn. 4) Pull the valve cover. Squirt oil on the rocker assembly. Bump the rockers with a rubber mallet over the valve springs to ensure that all the valves move. Drip oil on the valve stems if you can. 5) Pull the engine side covers. Squirt oil on the cam shaft rollers (and cam bearings if you can get to them). After doing the above 5 items, you could rotate the motor, even crank it with the starter. If the engine is or was frozen, let the cylinders soak for at least a week in penetrating lube. It is best to try to unstick a frozen engine from the flywheel end and not the hand crank end. The handcrank is not that strong. Put the transmission in 1st gear. Use 4 people (2 in front and 2 at the back) to rock the car back and forth in an effort to free the pistons. Parts frozen by rust come apart easier if you work the frozen part back and forth rather than continually forcing the rotation thru the rust. Reversing rotation allows some rust to move out of compression between the parts. Note that the pistons are removed only from the bottom of the engine on early Buick motors. If you do get the engine to rotate, strongly consider pulling the pistons out the bottom and cleaning the cylinder walls and the ring grooves and doing an inspection - prior to reinstalling and firing the engine. It would be great to get a compression tester. Around 60 lbs pressure in each cylinder is a good motor. There should be less than 10% deviation in each cylinder. Spark plug adapters are available from Ford Model A parts suppliers. Cranking the motor is a good thing to check off the list. A compression test gives a good check on the health of the motor. Preparing for starting – knowing that the motor turns over: 1) Pull the carburetor. a) Clean out the fuel bowl. b) Use carburetor cleaner to ensure all internal passages blow thru. c) Consider installing a Nitrolphyl float – available from Bob’s Automobilia or Gregg Lange. d) Check that the air valve lays smooth against the carburetor inside diameter and that there is a narrow gap at the base of the air valve. You may need to file the pot metal venturi block. There are AACA forum posts on this – search using the quote “Marvel Carburetor Rebuilding”. 2) Check that the exhaust manifold valve (on the front end of the exhaust manifold) is open. There are AACA forum posts on this – search using the quote “Buick Exhaust valve removal”. 3) Rebuild the distributor. The distributor should rotate by the advance levers on the steering column. Several years of distributors were pot metal and the distributor housing will grow and freeze into the generator housing. Replace with a steel Buick distributor from other years. Do not force the movement as there are potmetal gears at the base of the steering column that are not that strong. There are AACA forum posts on this – search using the quote “Distributor Replacement”. Also search for “Distributor rebuilding”. 4) Rebuild the Water pump. (see the forum for upgrades to the seals and shaft). There are AACA forum posts on this – search using the quote “Water Pump Rebuilding”. 5) The fan hub is an old design that requires frequent oiling and will leak oil all over the motor. Replace it with a sealed bearing hub – Several suppliers for this. Search the AACA Forum “fan hub replacement”. 6) Rebuild the vacuum tank and gas tank * I prefer to do the “fuel supply” system later as there is a lot to this. For a first start, I hang a 1 quart used lawnmower tank and feed the carburetor with this from a reinforced rubber fuel hose, or just pour gas in the vacuum tank. It will hold about a quart. Search the AACA Forum “vacuum tank rebuilding”. Other notes: Oil and grease is usually long overdue for removing the old and installing new (and not just installing new.) Clean out as much of the old as you can first. Engines that have laid dormant for decades may have significant rust in the engine block. You do not want this in your honeycomb radiator as they cannot be rodded out. Consider installing a Gano filter into the top radiator hose to catch sediment and keep rust out of the radiator. Also consider removing the engine freeze plugs and cleaning any rust out of the block, or at least reverse flushing out the engine water jacket with water and without radiator hoses just prior to start up. The firing order is 142635. (Reverse of a modern engine) Pot metal failures cause problems. The following areas will likely need attention 1. Distributors – housing growth prevents spark advance. discussed above 2. Carburetor – venture growth – prevents easy starting and idling – discussed above 3. Ignition switch – switch shaft grows, housing hole grows smaller- Bob’s Automobilia has parts-replace both housing and switches. 4. Speedometers – internals freeze up. Disconnect the cable to prevent cable damage. Inspect the oil pick up screen. Most are weak or have failed. Use 50/50 solder to replace the screen. Screen size is .005 brass 32 x 38 wires per inch. New Buick Owners order of work 2. More notes and items to think about. 1) Pull the water pump off first. The 2 hoses are old and need replacement anyways. The pump can now be rebuilt . 2) squirt some oil in the cylinders. About a tablespoons worth in each. Consider even using engine fogging spray to lubricate the cylinder walls 3) Are you willing to drain the oil and drop the pan. I have not found a person who has ever said dropping the pan was a waste of time. If nothing else, you have peace of mind that any old engine sludge is not lurking. Most people are glad that they dropped to pan and cleaned the pan out. Inspect the oil pump and the oil pump screen. Consider pulling the oil pump and having it checked. Egge can rebuild it if necessary and install a new pressure relief valve spring. I have seen several broken springs. The oil suction screens are also weak and typically torn. These need to be inspected. 4) Pull the valve cover and side covers. Oil the valve train. Check that each rocker arm and cam roller moves. 5) Put 6 volts on the starter and see if it operates on the floor. You can use 12 volts if you keep the time short. Say 15 seconds, then rest time for any heat to be removed. Consider having it rebuilt while it is out. 6) Install new gaskets on the Oil pan. Add Fresh oil and a new filter. With the water pump off, and the valve train checked and oiled, you should be able to turn the engine without damaging anything. If you have the hand crank, a couple rotations should tell if everything is moving. Do the initial cranking with the spark plugs out. If it hand cranks well, put the starter motor in and give it a few more rotations. Install the valve cover and side covers and gaskets after you have witnessed that all the valve train parts are operating properly. After this, we work on ignition and carburation, so lets start with the above first to keep the work manageable. The goal is pumping fresh oil thru the motor and that it turns over. 7) Early engines (around 1918) use cotter pins on the wrist pins. This is not a robust design. If the age of the rebuild is unknown, consider going in and replacing the cotter pins. These can be changed with the engine in place if the pan is removed. 😎Fiber timing gears used on all the sixes after 24, and Into the eights. I don't know when they quit. 1954? Hugh

Kevin, Thanks for the note on the Harrison radiator numbers. The radiator that I have is a 261 so it is for a 1928 Master. The measurement on my radiator is 33" as I am measuring shell to shell and yours is just the radiator. Hugh

I have a 1928 Buick radiator and shell that I will be selling. How do I know if this is from a Standard or Master? Up thru 1927, the crank holes were in different locations for Master and Standard. Thank you, Hugh

This looks like a good radiator and shell for a 1926-1927 Buick Standard. It will not fit a Master. Lack of a thermostat tells me it is 1926 Standard. As a unit, this will also work for a 1925 Standard, but the fill nozzle was enlarged in 1926 so it is the size as what is used on the Masters, so you would need to locate a Master radiator cap or motometer. Not Mine - Hugh https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/193980651868179/

For a rusty bolt, you also have to "work the bolt" back and forth in small amounts. This allows some of the rust to find it's way out of the threads and some room for penetrating lube into the threads. If you just try to spin it off, the rust can compact into the threads. Hugh

Ken, The rivet head should be countersunk into the lining material. The flared end is on the backside or inside of the internal band. One of Larry's photos has the rivets in backwards. There are some countersinking rivet bits, but last time I looked, I had a hard time finding one with a hole small enough for my early rivets. I ended up using an end mill and drilling the center of the hole for the rivet to the correct size. To install the rivet I usually use a pan head screw in my vise. Being that the bands are circular and the rivet is on the inside, you may have to get a little creative on the installation. Hanson sells brass rivets and the star flare tool. Hugh .

Ken, I have an option for you. Option 1 is as NOS as it gets. In 2015 I bought a set of NOS wheel shedders in the original box and packing. There are 2 in this box. Here are a couple of dimensions. Cone on the inside 2.410 ID metal against the hub 2.460 ID Felt when installed ID 2.310 I was not able to easily remove the felt seal, so I cannot give you the dimensions of just the seal out of the shedder. I also have this picture of the 2 rear wheel felt seals. I cannot seem to locate this bag, although I did find the bag with front felt seals. I also looked thru my notes and I have the following. Original felt seals for the shedder are 2 5/16” x 3” x 3/8” Hugh

Ken, The shaft diameter is the same on a 4 or a 5 rivet, so you have to decide if you are going to use a size 4 or size 5 head diameter. This should be based on the size of the existing rivet and perhaps the material you are trying to hold in place and if it needs a larger head. Next is length. I posted clutch rivet information. All but the end clutch discs are double sided friction material, so the rivet needed is longer. There are several notes on the clutch rivets in my friction disc presentation. One of the end backings is .085 thick for the single disc. For this single disc, I used 5-4 rivets. That would be more like a brake lining and your .060 thickness. To use your calculations. .097 friction thickness + .060 metal band thickness + 1/8 flare depth (but I would use .110 as a depth to ensure there is sufficient depth and not bottoming out) = .267 so 1/4" is a good length rivet. This means a 5-4 or a 4-4 is what you want. Like Larry said. Hugh

If the bands (internal or external) have gotten oil or grease on them, they are done and need to be replaced. I have never been able to sucessfully reuse any brake friction material after it has been contaminated with a lubricant. Save yourself the trouble of doing the job twice. Hugh

Ken, The rivet head should be countersunk into the lining material. The flared end is on the backside or inside of the internal band. One of Larry's photos has the rivets in backwards. There are some countersinking rivet bits, but last time I looked, I had a hard time finding one with a hole small enough for my early rivets. I ended up using an end mill and drilling the center of the hole for the rivet to the correct size. To install the rivet I usually use a pan head screw in my vise. Being that the bands are circular and the rivet is on the inside, you may have to get a little creative on the installation. Hanson sells brass rivets and the star flare tool. Hugh .

Mark, I appreciate the documentation and I look forward to seeing your postings of the fine work you are doing. One photo bothers me. Putting jute on the inner side sheetmetal of the rear tub is not a good practice. Any water intrusion that happens onto the jute will act as a wet blanket on the metal. I realize that this car will likely never see a rainstorm again, but I am not seeing a benefit to having the jute where it is located. The jute on the wood is fine and could provide some sound deadening for the spring assembly, but even this jute brings more detriments than benefits IMO. Hugh

Hi Thomas, Welcome to the forum. I have a 1926 Model 40 with an original interior in my shed. Let me try to answer a few of your questions. There are 3 window shades. I assume your rear shade is in place. I have no extra parts. I do not know what a hem bar is. I am not sure if this shade material has been replaced. All forum answers and questions are good regardless of age. The issue applies to parts for sale as older items may or may not still be available. You can find an oil can on Ebay. You need to know the diameter of the oil can base to find a correct replacement. There are oil points all over the engine. (Distributor, throttle shafts, spark advance shaft, etc. ) Places should be listed in the owners manual. Look for shafts thru castings and a hole on the top side. Any motor oil will suffice. I will let someone else answer on side view mirrors. Step plates were "aftermarket" . They do come up on Ebay at times. If you have the transmission key, consider making a new key first. Is the lock frozen, or do you have a key that merely fits the slot but is the wrong key. Since you have a closed car, I suspect your key is wrong. Send the tumbler code to Jesserclassickey and have a new key made. My car is open, and I suspected water had made it's way to the top of the transmission. I did use WD-40 generously in the tumbler, and the newly made key. I did snap vise grips on the key - but only to make it easier to wiggle it back and forth - GENTLY. It did eventually loosen and then I was able to remove the entire tumbler. Hugh

Those plates are stamped to allow a carriage bolt to be slid in, and the slot prevents it from turning as you tighten the nut. Space the holes in what ever was attached to roughly the distance of the outside distance between the slots, and you have a decent attachment for something that could be easily removed. Not a Buick part though.