wayne sheldon
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Posts posted by wayne sheldon
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I think it is too neat to be called a "turd". Although a longtime best friend is well known for giving cars similar names. One of his cars was forever known as "the sh!t box". A car I had many years ago was named the "black bomb" by him because it was old faded black and had a disintegrating interior.
Hmm. The Black bomb?
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How much room there was for the landau irons varied from one car make/model/body to the next. Some like Buick's oval window brougham used different window sizes and shapes to make more room for the landau bars, which is what gives it the look that makes it one of my all-time favorites! Some like one of Studebaker's series altered the shape with an arched back to top of the window to allow more room for the landau irons. Some manufacturers just squeezed them in behind the window making a crowded appearance which often didn't look so great. A few eliminated the third window completely.
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General Motors really went nuts for the fabric top down to the beltline in the back and landau irons in 1927 and 1928. I have known a few people with Chevrolets those years, a few Buicks (I really love the 1927 oval window brougham!), and a couple Oaklands as well as the companion Pontiac automobiles! Even a few Cadillacs and LaSalles got into the act! They went on coupes as well as sedans! It was a short-lived fad for about three years pretty much fading away after 1929.
GM wasn't the only one either. Ford's model A sport coupes had landau irons all 1928 through 1931. And my 1929 Reo coupe I had fifty years ago had them. Hudson, Nash, Studebaker, and many others offered models with landau irons in those years as well.
I like them, and would love to have another car with them.
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I have seen worse. Not sure I have ever driven worse?
I did see a 1930ish Chevrolet driven without a carburetor once! They crimped off the end of the fuel line, and aimed it into the updraft intake manifold! No throttle, no choke, no speed adjustment. They tweaked the crimped end to a high idle, and chugged along at about 20 mph in high gear.
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17 minutes ago, alsancle said:
How did that run?
Badly I would guess? 😁
Glad to see you and Phil having a few minutes to work on it again!
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Looks like somebody had fun with parades!
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The Buick has an after-market radiator cap with dogbone handles and wings under a Boyce Motometer (which itself could be a factory option?).
Ordinarily, radiator caps might have the dogbone, or wings, however generally only one or the other, not both. The funny thing is that this is the second era photo that I have run into this week showing both dogbone and wings on one car!
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Been a few years. If I recall correctly, yes the block is cast iron and usually robust and reliable. Also if I recall correctly, the aluminum heads on these are seriously prone to failure due to corrosion issues. However, the later version of these engines had a nearly identical head in cast iron that fits, works, and if painted silver looks almost the same! About a year go, I went to look at a 1923 sedan for sale near me that had the cast iron head, looked just like that aluminum one!
When I was playing with early Studebakers twenty plus year ago and had a 1925 standard with the next generation engine, I knew several people with the early 1920s standard size cars. Replacing the aluminum heads with cast iron ones was done quite a lot. I have no idea how readily available the iron heads are for these today, or aren't.
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53 minutes ago, CatBird said:
Though most of the comments are positive. I guess I should make better preamble to posting links. I did search before posting it to see if it had already had been done. Most of the negative comments tend to discourage making link posts. One was so acerbic that, for the first time (on this Forum) put him on my ignore list so that he will never be disturbed by me again.
Let's do our best to promote learning in a brotherly loving manner for our hobby. When the few times I have felt making negative comments, this was done in private messages.Yes! Sharing knowledge and encouraging others here is what this forum should mostly be about! Antique auto related of course! And sharing links to interesting and/or informative other websites is a part of that. A short preamble, where it is going and what it is would help. Your title on the opening pretty well covered what it was about. I may be out of date (I think I was born to be so?)? However, I prefer (and usually post?) links showing the actual link rather than hidden behind a short "click here" or "LINK". That way, where it is going can usually (?) be seen in the actual link.
Simply as a point of explanation, I rarely go to "msn" links anymore. Way too many of their "writers" are not knowledgeable on the subjects they write lengthy articles about. They were full of severe misconceptions and serious errors, along with just generally very badly written (must have gotten their "university degree out of a Crackerjacks box? (told you I am out of date?)), that they were a total waste of time to read! Too many "msn" articles are nothing more than a litany of teasers. How many times can one say "keep reading and I will tell you something" and yet never tell me anything?
That is why knowing where a link is going does help. Some websites I am eager to see what someone there has to say! Some other places? Not so much.
I do hope that I have not offended you ever. I am an opinionated &&& and do tend to speak my mind. Besides, I also have an automotive history research problem I need to get back to and may need to ask a favor? Looking for some obscure automotive history related to Georgia.
Be well!
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5 hours ago, Jolly_John said:
It appears the border design and the lettering are embossed on the originals, while the other plates (the repro's?) are simply one-dimensional, with the border design and the lettering silk screened or lithographed. I'm thinking reproduction on the unused plates. Please let us know, if I've made a bad assumption about the lack of embossing. John
I would say you are probably correct!
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That Chrysler "77" is a couple years later than your Chrysler. Although slanted windscreens had been common on roadsters and tourers for fully ten years then, enclosed coupes and sedans were still usually straight windshields (windscreens) with popular common lower priced cars beginning to pick up the trend about 1930. That is part of what makes your convertible coupe so interesting! The door and styling of the later Chrysler is quite different from yours, with its chromed small frameworks around the glass. Yours still has the heavier stamped steel (painted and fully a part of the lower door panel) forward window frame.
For a small local coachbuilder to alter a standard straight door frame for a slanted windscreen would be a simple task. It would require altering or replacing the window riser mechanism to support the glass without the forward upper frame to hold it straight. However even that would not have been difficult.
I sure do hope you can find out where in all the world that car has been! If only our hundred year old cars could talk and tell us all their stories! The families they carried, the adventures to which they took them!
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This is a tough area for the hobby. In certain very high end markets, provenance is VERY important! This is largely due to hobbyists for nearly half a century would deem some cars to be far more valuable if only they had a more desirable body style. If the "added value" was thought to be significant enough that the cost to build duplicates of the more desirable style? Lesser desirable sedans and limousines would be sacrificed (destroyed!) in order to have one more dual cowl phaeton. This in truth resulted in fewer real cars of the lesser desirable body types and a world full of actual fakes. Hence "provenance" (proving this one is a real one!) became important.
The problem is that "provenance" is not always possible. Just throwing a few numbers around. There may have been maybe a hundred great artistic major custom body producing companies and/or artists in the world during the true "Classic" era. Most of them are well enough known, and have been studied in great detail. In spite of that, there are hundreds of should be great classics with some questionable pasts, simply because not every one of those custom cars were fully recorded or photographed individually.
In the world export market? Things get even crazier! Hundreds of automobile manufacturers exporting to dozens of countries around the world. Each with their own rules, restrictions, and shipping issues? Export models very often did not conform to their domestic production models. Many manufacturers used up excess inventory, often crossing over model lines, to be shipped overseas. To keep shipping costs down, many export automobiles were shipped as chassis with maybe some body panels only. Literally hundreds of small coach building shops around the world produced bodies locally in numbers large and small. A company like Holden in Australia may be well known, having built many thousands of bodies on a dozen marques chassis over most of a century (as well as full manufacturing/assembly!)! For every company like Holden? There are a couple dozen smaller companies, many producing bodies for only a few years. Quality ranging from fantastic to barely tolerable. Hundreds of these companies are largely forgotten.
I read a lot! And retain much of what I read. Over my many years in this hobby, I have run into mentions of a dozen or so small producers of coachwork all around the world! They have been everywhere from Southeast Asia, throughout Europe, Africa, South and central America, Japan, and even a far corner of New Zealand! A model T friend has a nice model T Ford sedan custom bodied in the 1920s in Denmark (if I recall correctly?)!
Literally hundreds of those companies and their work are pretty much forgotten. There are likely more than a thousand cars such as yours that may never be known from whence it came? Not being million dollar cars, they need to be taken largely on their own merits. They are what they are, and represent themselves and hundreds of similar cars long since lost to time and the elements.
Your car looks very similar to the common Chrysler bodies of that few years. But it is not exactly the same as standard American production. You are very fortunate to have a few pre-restoration photos showing the car with the unusual top and windscreen treatment. That pretty much establishes the treatment as being from the car's early life. When the car was a few years old, a common older import car would not have been worth a significant modification for a relatively minor upgrade? The general panels closely resemble the American bodies for those years. But they are not exactly the same.
Is it possible that the chassis was imported (to wherever?) with the major stamping panels? And then a local coachbuilder modified them and completed the body? I would consider that to be likely?
It is interesting to note, that except for the four-door sedan, model T Ford bodies for 1926 and 1927 in America were largely all steel, panels and framework! Exported cars shipped to Australia were chassis and body panels ONLY (for all but a few special orders). The bodies then in Australia were completed with WOODEN framework! The 1926 and 1927 model Ts in Australia, if an original import, will be wood framed while a recent import will be steel framed. They look alike, even sitting side by side. But under the skin they are very different!
Side jaunt. Altering the windscreen and door posts for a slanted windscreen is a simple trick without the wood in place! There is a way using an acetylene torch to slowly shrink and reshape the previously stamped piece to accomplish that. I have done it myself several times, both in altering available windshield frames for an original custom body that had lost its original frame, or in repairing damaged stamped pieces. I am not quite good enough to be consistent on my quality, but some times have succeeded in an alteration that couldn't be seen even prior to painting! Well done, the only visible sign would be a slight discoloration of the surface of the steel. A bit of sandpaper, painting, a decade or two? It likely wouldn't be seen at all!
If the body is being assembled and partially built by a local coachbuilder? The windscreen post stampings would be altered, and the wood being cut and finished locally simply cut to fit.
Yours is a wonderful car! Even if some of its history remains a mystery.
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I do have a bit o' Irish n Scottish in me ancestry!
And in an effort to drift away from images best left to not even the imagination?
It has been way too long since I have had a green antique automobile (I will never count the 2001)!?
The Studebaker was repainted very close to its original green! A very good friend began the restoration. Then I bought it and did the rest! (Please forgive the whitewalls. They came with the car when I bought it.)
The original accessory body boat-tail model T roadster when I was restoring it, I found one very small protected spot of original paint underneath the original windshield post! It was a medium dark green. I did ALL of the restoration on this car myself from what was called "unrestorable".
I really wish I still had both of them. Both of them were driven a lot while I had them, often two to three hundred miles in a single day!
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By the way, CatBird, thank you for posting that link! I enjoyed what Jay had to say about his incident, and how he so casually said it was his fault.
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While I do tend to agree with Gunsmoke about links without explanation? I usually ignore them unless a couple people I know make positive comments first.
Way too much just outright garbage on the internet! Too much badly written (for lack of a better word "crap") produced by clueless fools that know nothing about which they write. Too many badly formed opinions by people that do not understand even obvious realities in front of them! ( I rarely go to msn because they are terrible that way!)
This particular piece is published by Hagerty. So while not an "in depth" article, is mostly Jay Leno's words, and interesting given the limited connection most of us have with the man! And yes, I too have met the man, and had some significant length conversation with him on one random occasion! (We talked about his Bentley for about ten minutes before I realized who he was! Hey, it was an antique automobile! I don't waste my time trying to meet celebrities!)
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I loved the movie "Duck Soup"! I was never much of a fan of their later movies. They became too pat and formula written. The early films were produced and performed on stage before the best laughs were worked out and then put onto film. My all-time favorite Marx Brothers movie was their first talking comedy, "The Cocoanuts" (also had the best musical interludes which I very much enjoyed!). "Horse Feathers" and "Duck Soup" follow close behind. Every time (I am not kidding!) I see a photo or read a mention of "Ethyl" gasoline? That silly Groucho quote runs through my head!
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nacmlamerikx, I don't believe that you can send PMs until you have been posting for some amount of time or number of postings. So, likely you cannot send Graham Man a PM for some time yet.
He might be able to send a PM to you? I don't know for certain. If he can, he could send you a direct email and then you could contact him directly.
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I may be wrong? But as I recall, the first Golden Hawks did not have the supercharger. Very rare car, manufactured for only a short time.
Years ago, I got to see (a sad sight?) 1956 Golden Hawk number two, complete with the letter from the factory proclaiming it as the second Golden Hawk off the assembly line! Unfortunately, the car had been badly stored in a damp barn for a couple decades, and suffered badly from it. The fellow that had it, wanted ten thousand dollars for it because of being number two. He had it for sale for several years, and I eventually lost track of it.
If it hadn't been for the terrible storage, the car was fairly low mileage, and very original!
The early Golden Hawks had the big Packard V8 engine! A true MUSCLE car! But they handled poorly, and could get into trouble on curves at high speed because of too much weight too far forward. They were virtually unbeatable in stock car drag racing in the 1950s, even making life tough for stock Corvettes ten years later! As I recall from a Studebaker expert I knew years ago, Studebaker's "fix" for the weight and handling problems was to replace the huge Packard V8 with the smaller Studebaker V8 with the blower/supercharger setup which weighed a lot less, but had "almost" as much total horsepower.
I would love to have any decent Studebaker Hawk series car. However, if I could have what I really wanted? I would want the Packard engine early 1956 version!
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2 hours ago, Joe Cocuzza said:
Is that weird or ?????????
No, it is NOT weird! A lot of us are that way. It is part of our genetic heritage. It is a remnant of our "hunter gatherer" instincts.
I still fight it, often! Life treated me quite badly. Unfortunately, for reasons beyond my control, I had to sell all the cars I had spent years getting and working on in plans to keep and enjoy for the rest of my life! All I have left is a half a dozen leftover projects that I should have sold cheap years ago. But I kept them because I couldn't get the money I had to have and knew they were my best chance at ever replacing any of the cars I had to sell. So, with enough projects to keep me busy for twenty years restoring them (as if I even have that long?)? I STILL keep seeing projects I want to seriously consider buying! Hey! I could probably scrape up that three thousand dollars somehow? And then I could spend few days cleaning it up, fix a few little things, enjoy doing so? (Fact is I haven't been able to spend more than a couple hours working on my model T in six months! How in the h3!! would I spend any time on some pile of junk I do not need?) With four projects I really should finish, one thing I do NOT need is any more projects!
But still. I WANT to go look. I can't help thinking about it. There have been a half a dozen good deals near enough that it could be done! But I have to tell myself NO!
Now, go out into the shop and work on that Pierce Arrow!
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One of my longest time best friends (passed away too young about ten years ago!) had a 1925 Lincoln seven passenger sedan. I drove that car for hundreds of miles myself, mostly at night (he had a fall asleep issues and knew his limits, I had insomnia and could go forever!)! Wonderful driving car!
I also helped him rebuild the engine a couple times. The first rebuild had several problems because a modern machinist screwed it up. They are not difficult to work on, but they cannot be set up too much too tight. The "fork and blade" is a sort of bushing over bearing arrangement, and MUST be set up properly!
He drove the car a lot, and drove it hard.
Jack Passey sure loved the Lincolns! He had a lot of them over the years. Most didn't get driven much because of the number of them he had. Some, he drove a lot! And several times, he would buy a Lincoln (often a model L) on the East coast, and then drive it all the way across the country to get it home. On a few occasions, he would buy two, using a tow bar, tow one Lincoln home with the other pulling both! (I have seen photos! And heard the stories!)
Properly rebuilt mechanically and they are great automobiles! If the engine and other mechanicals aren't worn out? An easy rings and valves could be a great car for gentle touring for many many wonderful miles and years! Or? Sometimes one doesn't get lucky? That is just a fact of life, and part of this wonderful hobby!
I love this car! It brings back fond memories. I enjoy looking at the pictures every time it gets bumped back up again!
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That is a wonderful look at an important point of our history! For most of a hundred years, mechanical motive power had been almost exclusively steam engines. Other than burning to create steam, gasoline related chemical power had become practical only about twenty years earlier. Electric power had been played with, however practical battery technologies were just getting going in 1he 1890s.
That first decade of the twentieth century was the battleground time for practical power supremacy between the three major portable sources. And for a hundred years since, gasoline has reigned supreme!
That will of course change, at some point in the future for the better. And hopefully a few more times yet again! When? Only future historians will know.
A wonderful piece Walt G! Thank you for sharing that.
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I am no model A expert by a longshot! But I believe this is what was called a "Business Coupe" originally. A friend has considered wanting one. Although they sold quite a few of them originally, most survivors were modified into the more popular "Sport Coupe" without the oval corner windows. Most business coupes did not originally have the rumble seat, however it was an option for them, so may well be original to the car?
The Mitchell overdrive is very popular with the model A crowd. They actually manufactured a range of overdrive units for many antique automobiles and other special uses. They are not era correct, but were made to be somewhat inoffensive, and not require major modifications. I am not sure when they were made, but I think during the 1970s through 1990s? They may even still be available? I don't know.
Model A people tend to like to drive their cars, and the overdrive gives them a better sustained top speed and eases the engine's burden of being pushed too much.
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I might have a use for the shorter one? Any idea what it would cost to ship it to California 95949?
UPS would be best? USPS around here stinks! They have lost a dozen packages in the past year! We have two currently missing right now!
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This is the "Parts For Sale" section. You might have a better chance of getting the responses you need posting under the "Pontiac Flathead Owners" questions and answers area?
Try here;
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Road testing Woodlites
in General Discussion
Posted
Finally had a few minutes to watch the video without interruption! Wonderful! Love the lamps, beautiful car! Loved the sounds. The whole thing!
Thank you.