wayne sheldon
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Posts posted by wayne sheldon
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Great responses! I agree most likely a generic replacement for a common Studebaker hubcap.
When I got my 1925 Studebaker standard six (criminy that was almost fifty years ago!?), it needed some hubcaps. The first thing I found was two beautiful New-Old-Stock generic hubcaps for it! The face pattern was different than this hubcap. The ones I had had in place of the boxy "S" was two rectangular boxes that mimicked the boxy "S" on the real Studebaker hubcaps. Otherwise, they appeared to be an exact match. Certainly, Studebaker would have had no reason to use fake logos on a genuine hubcap manufactured by or for themselves. So it must have been a generic replacement. I showed them to a few Studebaker experts, and they told me they had seen ones like them before and that they were after-market replacements.
I never did use them on my car. Before the car was ready for them, I found enough genuine and easily repairable original Studebaker hubcaps. I sometimes wish I had kept those two after-market hubcaps. I let them go with the car when I needed to sell it a few years later. But they were sure nice looking!
The OP's with that different face pattern is likely an after-market cap from a different company? There were a couple other cars using somewhat similar size and shape hubcaps. Perhaps these were hoped to be workable for some other car as well?
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I don't care if it does have a "Horseless Carriage" license plate (only for cars up to 1922 (or 16 cylinder don't ask why?)). The style of top, windshield, high radiator and hood and firewall as well as front fenders all say it is a 1924 or 1925! And the door hinges suggest that it is likely a 1925!
Decent looking model T though!
With the Ruckstell and the brakes? The price is not too high? Maybe a bit ambitious, but I would not be surprised if it sold for that $9000.
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Coupes, coaches, two-door sedans, opera coupes, Victoria coupes, and on and on have been driving some people crazy for nearly a hundred years now! Advertising types, Madison Avenue certainly has not helped to clarify anything!
I don't think there can ever be a real consensus on what the various terms mean. At least not in any universal sense. Their application seems to change every decade or so.
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1915 is a strange year for Studebaker! They changed models midyear. The so-called "real" or "true" 1915s were manufactured from Autumn 1914 though about May of 1915. Then they introduced the "1916 model" early, or about June of 1915!. The silly thing is that they only made that model for just over six months! So, literally NONE of what Studebaker called a "1916" model was built in 1916! They introduced the next "series" which they did not refer to by a model year during December of 1915.
Later, in late January 1916, Studebaker sent letters to dealers and some owners telling them to NOT refer to the recent models by "year model", using a "series" designation instead.
Therefore, the EARLY 1915s are considered the "real" 1915s, the later 1915s should be called "series 16s", and all 1916 calendar year built Studebaker automobiles are "series 17s". However, MOST people do still call the series 16s "1915" cars because of the HCCA designation involved.
Since the "true" 1915s and the series 16s are significantly different, you should be clear about what you have as most parts are somewhat different!
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The cream colored touring car with red wheels is a Rambler, about 1912. One of the last to use the Rambler name before they became the Jeffery for a few years, after which they became the Nash until the 1950s.
The photo isn't clear enough to be sure about some of the other cars.
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15 minutes ago, John_S_in_Penna said:
Do the wind wings help to protect from rain, as well as wind?
About as much as a too small umbrella! But yes, they do help.
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Well, I got out, and made it back! My long steep driveway I shoveled the length of three times in four days (beginning early made it a lot easier in the long run!) was the easiest part of the whole five mile round trip! The unplowed short private road we are on was the worst part of the whole drive with a whole lot of slippin' and slidin' and "toboggan" runs in the Expedition (NOT my idea of fun!)! The highway and city streets weren't bad, still narrow in places with snow piled high on the sides. The two shopping center parking lots I had to go to were only partially plowed and jammed packed with hundreds of cars and people trying to stock up between the storms! The gas station was filled with people like me filling large gas cans for generators. But I think I might be able to get through a few more days now.
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Seventeen years here on the Western slopes of the Sierras (just over 2000 feet elevation). First time I could not get out and on our third day of it! Power just came back on less than three hours ago, almost three full days on our generator! Another round expected this coming weekend. I ran out of emergency gas yesterday, but we (my wife!) found a kind soul willing to bring us five gallons. I walked out and met him walking in carrying it! He had a more aggressive four wheel drive than ours and he couldn't do the quarter mile on our road either!
The sun has been shining all day today. Maybe I will give the road another try soon?
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9 hours ago, nzcarnerd said:
From a facebook post. Is the car identifiable?
It might be a 1913 Studebaker, last year for gas lamps on them.
Also note, the driver can see the thermometer in the Motometer! As it should be!
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THAT is one great looking set of side curtains on that runabout!
This thread is making me feel the need! Guess if I ever can get the top done for my 1915 T model Ford I will have to go the extra mile, and get or make side curtains for it!
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A "supposedly" 1915 model T Ford runabout. Whether it is a real one or not would require close inspection of many details since so very many later Fords were back-altered to pass as earlier models. Since the windshield hinges appear to be 1917 or later? The car may likely be not genuine.
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2 hours ago, edinmass said:
Something wonderful……….just like me! 😂Must be the 1917 White!
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You have been missed! Along about January (was it one year ago or two now?), some security issues forced the admins to make changes to the sign in procedures. User name can no longer be used for the purposes of signing in, instead your attached email address has to be used to sign in. In addition, some added restrictions to your password were made necessary. Once signed in and updated if necessary, your old user name should be okay if you wanted to go that route?
Nice car! But not in my marketplace.
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Hey there Hans1,
I cannot tell if the OP's owl's head is mounted on the Motometer or not (given the angles of the photos), however it is on the wrong side. K8096's photo shows it the right way.
The whole purpose of the Motometer is to be able to read the thermometer! Putting the owl's head over the thermometer makes that impossible regardless of headlamps or light refraction though crystals or anything else!
The following rant is not aimed at any poster on this thread! Just at the hundreds of people out there that do not get it!
There are indeed two faceplates inside most common Motometers. Another very common mistake is people put one faceplate under the front glass showing the name (Boyce or marque name), and the thermometer markings plate on the back side of the Motometer COVERING the thermometer such that the thermometer CANNOT be seen to be read! THAT is WRONG!
I have said this many times here, and other places. BOTH faceplates go on the front side of the Motometer! The name/marque faceplate should face forward toward the front of the Motometer. The thermometer markings faceplate should be behind the name/marque plate facing to the back of the Motometer toward the driver's seat of the car. In that way, the thermometer markings can be seen as reference points for the thermometer, and the thermometer itself can be seen as the plate is supposed to be in front of, or ahead of, the thermometer. BOTH faceplates are installed TOGETHER! Many people insist on putting the thermometer between the two faceplates! THAT is WRONG! I don't care how many hundreds of people assemble them that way! I don't care how many hundreds of photos are scattered around the internet showing them that way. It always was wrong. It will always be wrong.
Also Hans1, You are quite right about that translucent disc does belong between the two faceplates! SOME of them were a sort of isinglass. I suspect mostly earlier ones from the early 1920s had the isinglass discs inside. I have had a few with those. A lot of them, I suspect most from the mid through the late 1920s had wax paper discs inside between the two faceplates! I have had more of those, and even have kept a few original such wax paper discs just for "show and tell". The wax paper ones had the Boyce name and some minor information printed on them which when they were assembled was turned so as to not show in the sight hole in the faceplates. The sight hole is the warning zone suggesting that the motor is too hot! The translucent disc is supposed to help highlight that.
Over the years of use, most of the translucent discs have developed a hole in the area exposed to sunlight and UV. Sometimes just moving the disc around slightly can put a nice area of the disc in the window (sight hole). Sometimes there isn't a big enough area left without the printing on it to use the original disc that way. In those cases, I simply use a fresh piece of wax paper borrowed from my kitchen. It has the right look!
Thank you Hans1!
Again, the real main purpose of a Motometer is to be able to read the thermometer and monitor the engine's temperature! ANYTHING, whether added for decorative purposes, or in how the Motometer is assembled or installed that hinders the DRIVER from seeing the Motometer and its thermometer from the driver's seat is not correct!
That should be enough out of me for today?
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A 1921 Model T touring car that was owned for many years by two different good friends usually had its side curtains up on the car! I rode in (and sometimes drove) that car for many many miles with the side curtains on it. I enjoyed them that way.
For many years, the 1915 Studebaker touring car I had I kept the side curtains on it most of the time. Usually, if the top was up, the curtains were on it. If the curtains weren't on it, it was because the top was down. I liked it that way, and never had trouble with fogging when using the side curtains.
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Boyce manufactured and sold most of the Motometers most people are familiar with. A few other companies made similar temperature measuring meters for automobile radiators ("Arrowmeter" was one). "Motometer" (spelled at least three different ways) was a trademarked name and Boyce used different spellings in advertising at various times.
Boyce, as well as several other companies made and sold a wide variety of items to dress up the common Motometer. These included diving girls (or men), various birds, airplanes, various dogs, club insignias, and many other things.
And by the way? Your owl's head is on the wrong side of the Motometer. It is supposed to be on the front of the Motometer, NOT covering the thermometer on the back! While somewhat decorative, the primary reason for a Motometer is to keep an eye on the engine's temperature! Automobiles in those days did not come with a temperature gauge. While engines were usually fairly reliable, the engines temperature could give early warning of potentially serious (or expensive!) problems. The thermometer is SUPPOSED to face back so that the driver can see it from his seat! And one does NOT cover that part of it up with artwork!
I stressed that last part because so many people today insist on putting their Motometers on backwards!
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I do think that is funny! I do so little work on metric stuff, and yet somehow I have broken almost every 10mm socket I had! I ended up going to a second hand junk and tool store and bought almost every used 10mm socket they had. I don't know why they break so easily? Probably something to do with too big a duty on too small a bolt head.
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Well, they really don't do much for me (too new!), and I am certainly no expert on them. And I don't have much of an idea of what this one would be worth? However I do know a few people that think the 1932 Ford is the greatest thing on Henry's green Earth! We have chatted about them a number of times, I have sat in on several conversations involving a couple people that knew these cars very well.
One thing I do know. "Proper" 1932 Fords are as rare as the proverbial hen's teeth! There are a dozen minor details that got changed early and throughout the 1932 model year. Very few 1932 Fords have all those "right" details. One of my mentors was restoring a real original 1932 roadster over fifty years ago, however it had been tampered with over the years, and believe me, he knew every wrong detail on that car! He had no delusions about its place in the 1932 hierarchy, he knew everyone else also knew every wrong (by months!) piece in the car!
Just how "right" this car is? I have no way of knowing. However that a few of those particular details are as they should be is alluded to in the description. IF (big IF!) the car is really "right"? That will make a big difference in just how much it could sell for!
And by the way? All chickens have a small tooth on the end of their beak when they hatch out of their eggshell. The "tooth" helps them break through the shell and falls off a couple days later. So, one could argue that "hen's teeth" really are not that rare? However, the proverbial "hen" is no longer a newly hatched chick and as a "hen" does not have teeth.
Sorry for the silly drift.
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That is a really nice open face Motometer! I have one almost identical to it myself. In fifty years, I have had about twenty Motometers, and only the one open face one. I don't think I have seen more than about a dozen open face ones up close and personal in fifty years. A longtime friend has one on his very nicely restored and era correct model T racing car, and I have seen a handful of others on other cars over the years. The rest of the few I have seen at swap meets.
Most people aren't familiar with them. The one I have, I bought off eBay for less than what I had paid for much more common later ones (and I was/am a bargain hunter usually buying cheaper ones and fixing them!). When it arrived I was very pleased with its nice condition, yet nobody else bid it up beyond the point I was willing to pay! I was planning on using it on one of two pre1916 cars I had, but then I had to sell them.
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NOT a 1915! Somewhere about a 1919 to 1923.
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Thank you TR_63 for your reply! I may have been in this hobby a long time, but I am always still trying to learn more.
The open face meters were also one of the earliest styles marketed, and came in several sizes from about the size of the later midget meters on up to ones about the size and general appearance of the Senior Standard, except thinner and without glass or bezels. After the Senior Standard was marketed, the open face ones were generally marketed as "truck and tractor" models. I have seen copies of Boyce advertising from about 1920 showing them that way.
I am not sure when the midget and junior meters with glass front and rear first went on the market, however I think it was a couple/few years before the larger Senior (glass front and back) Motometers hit the market.
I love nickel era cars, and love the look of a Motometer front and center!
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TR_63, I have been playing with these things a long time. But I never knew a specific name to separate the two major styles of the larger Motometers. "Standard" and "universal"? But which is which?
Following is general information for people not really familiar with Motometers.
Your "Haynes" is a style that began about 1917 or 1918, and came in many slight variations in size and weight, from quite thin up to somewhat chunky! From more than a few feet away front or rear, they look alike. The bezel rings, glass, and the inner plates are "mostly" interchangeable, although I have seen a few variants in the thickness of the glass. I have seen a few of that style with wreathed bezels, but not many.
Your "Buick" one I think came about a couple years later, but I am not sure exactly when. Wreathed bezels are much more common on these than they are on the "Haynes" style Motometer. However, most Motometers had the plain bezels.
Both styles were common throughout the 1920s.
I mentioned earlier that the face plates between these can be exchanged one way. The plates are cut differently. The "Buick" one's plates can fit and look good in the Haynes' Motometer, however the "Haynes" plates generally will not fit or work in the Buick's Motometer without some significant modification. The screw positions are the same, and the bezels are different, although I have seen a few Motometers with incorrect bezels used.
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It doesn't look like anything I have ever seen on any American cars. I have seen a couple of European cars with something similar. I don't know if he took out any patents over there?
Patent law is a bizarre specialty, and something that has been abused to the point of absurdity. Some patents are intended to cover a general idea. Others get more specific.
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One of the cars I had many years ago, the only Motometer I had was for a Buick (the car was not a Buick). I took the face plate out. turned it over and painted the back side with flat black. I put the Motometer back together showing the flat black on the front side. It looked fine.
Later, I picked up a Boyce senior size standard face plate and swapped it into the Motometer. A couple years later, a good friend bought a nice Buick that had a standard face plate, so I gave him the Buick plate which he left the flat black hidden inside and assembled to show the Buick name which was undamaged.
I don't know about the reproduction Motometers. But the original ones had two face plates that went in the front side of the Motometer. One, had the thermometer markings on it which varied by models and years, it was placed in the front of the Motometer facing back. The other would have either one of several standard Boyce face plates, or the automobile marque plate placed in front facing forward.
Over the years, Boyce manufactured several unusual models. However most models after about 1919 were either the senior (larger size) in one of two basic styles. Or they were the junior size, usually of one basic style, however there were a few somewhat unusual styles.
The face plates in the two senior styles were not the same, however, one style's face plates could be used in the other style meter, but NOT visa versa. (I wish I had some pictures to share?)
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Side curtains on early cars
in General Discussion
Posted
There are so many variations on the so-called California tops, there really is no simple answer. I have seen several such cars up close and maybe a dozen others in really good photographs. Most of the ones I have seen up close or in photos did not have roller shade type side curtains, although I have seen a couple like that. I don't have good pictures of the cars I have personally seen up close (was really never that good with cameras?).
Several of the cars I have seen up close had wooden framed real glass windows that hung from rods run lengthwise inside the top! A couple had them held so that the side windows would swing up and attach to straps near the center of the fixed roof. There they would stay out of the way until needed when a simple flap would extend down outside the door or body side to cut down the draft.
Another car I rode in once also had rods run inside the length of the roof. Except this one had all the wood framed side windows slide to the rear of the car where they nestled inside the fixed rear section of the top! The stack of the side windows took up some space back there, but not too much. I have also seen a couple California Top cars that had the rods inside the roof, however had the framed windows removed and kept out of the car for the season.
Some of the after-market fixed top conversions had fixed windows attached to the body sides and doors, such that the door sections would swing open with the door when opened. Sometimes they had some sort of sliding arrangement to lower the side or door windows. And some of them were not all that good looking! Especially some of the ones made for model T Fords!