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Scott Bonesteel

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Posts posted by Scott Bonesteel

  1. Scott:

    Very good info. Can you post pictures? When I get back home (volunteer fire repair @ the Butte fire) I'll post what we have. 

    Thanks for your time.



    These fires are really bad this year. A hole town was consumed by fire. Pray for our fir fighters and victims.

    Dave--Would be glad to post whatever I can that would be helpful.  If there is one particular item in my long winded post about HCL/KCL wheels that someone would like posted, let me know.  Here is a 34-35 with the tapered end bumper and just a random pic of a Commercial Panel that, like Lucky Strike Green, has 'gone to war'.  Looks like the military, as would be appropriate, preferred 'artillery' wheels.  For any other photos I will have to wait for the weekend because of work this week.  Take care with those fires up there Dave. 



  2. OK, went through my literature collection on the 33-first series 35 Dodge Commercial Sedans and Panels.  I think the safest assumptions about wheels are as follows:  33 had wires but others were optional; 34 had wires but others were optional; first series 35 had artillery wheels.  I base those assumptions on mainly the following three Dodge sales brochures, but this information is consistent with other sales literature I have: 


    --January 1933 Form No. CI, Commercial Sedan sales brochure.  Doesn't list type of wheels for the standard 5.75/17 tires but clearly they were wires.  Lists "EXTRA EQUIPMENT" as including "600/16 Air Wheel tires with wire, wood or chromium-spoke steel wheels."  While I don't have any literature from 1933 that shows pictures of the "chromium-spoke steel wheels", they are pictured on several Commercial Panels with that description in a January 1934 Form K-6 'Dependable Trucks for Department Stores' advertising brochure and they are clearly steel artillery wheels.  I don't have any sales or other literature for HCL Commercial Panels.  I certainly have never seen any and would love to know if they ever existed.


    --April 1934 KC/KCL Form K-8 Commercial Sedan and Panel sales brochure.  Lists standard wheels for the standard 5.75/17 tires as "wire wheels".  Lists "EXTRA EQUIPMENT" as including "600/16 Airwheel tires with wire or chromium-spoke steel wheels".  A somewhat earlier brochure from March 1934 directed at 'Laundries and Dry Cleaners' shows numerous Commercial Panels, all of them with wire wheels.


    --May 1935 KC/KCL Form K-30 Commercial Sedan and Panel sales brochure.  Same "EXTRA EQUIPMENT" as in 1934 but only steel artillery wheels listed as standard.  The Ross Roy Handbook from March 1, 1935 lists for the KCL Panel "five demountable steel artillery wheels"  with the available option of "20-inch steel disc wheels" for "greater road clearance".


    My best guess on the customer's mystery Panel is that it is a 34 KCL or first series 35 KCL, but that is not based on the wheels.  You can just see at the far left edge of the photo the end of the rear bumper and the tip is of the narrowed type found on 34 and 35s, as opposed to the squared off end certainly found on 33 HCLs.  Per the March 1934 'Laundries' brochure listed above, which has on the cover page one of the extremely few photos that show a rear bumper on a KCL Panel, square end bumpers were still around in March 34.  In the customer's photo, far right side, you can see a small portion of the front bumper and it looks, at least to me, to be the 34-35 type bumper, which I think is just slightly narrower than the earlier square end models.  Finally, there simply were many more 34 and 35 KCLs than there ever were of 33 HCLs, so pure numbers indicate KCL rather than HCL.  My $2.95 worth of two cents... .  SMB

  3. I would agree with Dave, not the bigger 1 ton.  The splash aprons on the 1 tons are significantly higher and the truck sits higher.  Fenders across the 33-early 35 are the same.  As to wheels, as above, those are all over the board and I have seen original photos/Dodge advertising with all types, including artillery wheels with 34-style caps on these.  Having researched these for years, this is either a 33 HCL, a 34 KCL or early/'first series' 35 KCL.  The only way to really tell would be to get the serial number (HCL or KCL prefix) or a photo of the dash.  33 HCL and a large number of 34 KCLs have the 33 Dodge car type dash, a single contained unit, squared off ends, located in the center of the dash.  In late 34 the parts books show a production change to what I would call a '35-36' type of dash, with the three individual round gauges located roughly in a triangle in the center of the dash.  This was continued throughout the remainder of 34 and through the 35 KCLs that are 'first series', i.e., with suicide doors.  There is a variance in even those, some having a glove box and some without.  I have not been able to determine what significance, if any, there is to that variance.  Although the truck production numbers are not particularly clear in providing an exact 'year break' in the serial numbers on the KCLs, 34 versus 35, my KCL panel looks like it is a late 34 with the second type dash with round gauges and a glove box.  Attached photos show my KCL (awaiting me finishing my 34 PE...) and photos of the two different types of dashes.  If the customer can recall (at his/her young age) what the dash looked like or can find another photo, then you might be able to dial it in more closely.  Finding ANY of these is not easy.  Have fun! 





  4. I also have in the past used Liquid Wrench with great success.  However, if you have an old can of it lying around, you might want to read about what is in the stuff.  Good product but not something you want to get on or in you.  Couldn't figure out how to paste it but there is a very informative court decision just published from the court in Alameda County, California, David Johnson v. United States Steel Corporation.  It discusses the presence of benzene in Liquid Wrench and how long term exposure (plaintiff tore down engines for a living) can lead to cancers such a leukemia.  Obviously many of the things we all work with in our hobby (asbestos brake linings, etc.) can be harmful and some good common sense is probably sufficient.  However, being informed also doesn't hurt.  Again, I couldn't figure out how to paste a pdf on this site but if you Google the case name you should be able to pull up a copy of the decision.  SMB--OK, figured out how to paste it, see attached

    9-3-15 Johnson v. U.S. Steel Corp. No. A142485.pdf

  5. Numbers don't show in my part books but that is not a surprise.  First and third photos are of a 34 Dodge, Passenger side, with horn wire hole.  Fourth photo is of a 34 Plymouth, also passenger side, without the outside horn wire hole, so could be a PE, PF or PG.  Fifth photo looks like a 33-34-first series 35 Dodge truck or perhaps a 33 passenger car.  Neither of the numbers show in any of my Plymouth or Dodge parts books but they are definitely in the right numerical range for 34 Mopars.

  6. Nice sidemount cover. I would think this was 33 due to the brass trim instead of nickel on the emblem and the stamp you can see on the 4th photo indicating it is for a 525-17 spare. I have a matching one if anybody is interested in putting together a full set. Would have to move the emblem as they are both driver side but that is no big deal. Photo attached.


  7. If it was me, I would slide a wood block between the brace and the inner door panel, drill 2 quarter inch holes in the inner door panel, take the wood block out and clamp it up and plug weld the two of them together with my MIG.  Probably the closest to a spot weld and won't give you another bump in the door panel to transmit through the upholstery.

  8. Ok, Steve as a follow-up to the above, I went through and looked at my spare set and at the one in my 34 PE sedan (which is the same as the one in Chris' photo above, with the riveted edges), my 34 PE convertible (which is the one shown in the earlier photos I posted above) and the ones on my 34 Dodge DRXX coupe. The PE sedan is an early model (about the 200th unit out of the Los Angeles plant) so I would assume it is the closest to your 33 PD. It does have a tapered wood block but it was toast when I got the sedan so I replaced it and as installed I can't get a measurement on it. The PE convertible and the DRXX both have a slightly different unit (as shown in my earlier pictures) with a square track unit and a flat block underneath as opposed to tapered. In any event, the dimensions are as follows: WOOD BLOCK, 1 1/8" wide, full 1/4" thick, 12 1/2" long, oak. Holes are for 5/16 NC bolts on 11 3/8" centers. TRACKS: 2" wide, 15/16" thick, 12 1/4" long. If you are mounting up your seat I assume you would have something about 1 3/16" thick, bolted to the bottom of the seat frame. You can see the different handles here, the black cast one (similar to Chris' broken one) on the riveted early unit, the nickel knob on the 34 PE (both my spare and the one in my convertible) and the 'ring' type in the 34 DRXX. The DRXX is the latest one, note the connecting link has been turned perpendicular to the floor, while all of the others are parallel to the floor. SMB






  9. Chris--Maybe this will help.  These pictures are from the inside passenger door of a 33 Plymouth convertible coupe, the one that provided the window frames I sent you.  The top is connected with two round-head screws as shown in your diagram.  Although the inside door panel has been cut away, you can see the remnants of what looks like two rivets, one on each of the outside ribs of the supporting piece, that look like they were installed about 1/2" above where the cut is, at the door panel bead.  Looking for the inside door panel but can't seem to find it.  SMB





  10. KCL is right, what you see in the photos that looks like sheet metal is actually a thick felt strip that is tacked to the plywood and folded over the corner where it drops into the sheet metal floor to stop squeaks and probably wind-proof the seam.  Will send you some measurements and close up photos this weekend.  SMB

  11. Then again, I have to think back to when I bought my first 34 Plymouth, a 34 PE 4-door sedan, in 1973.  Nobody wanted it because it wasn't a 34 Ford.  Didn't matter that it was dual-sidemount, trunk rack, dual horn equipped (and all of it still there).  The 34 PE convertible I am building now is built from the remnants of 3 separate cars which 'serious restorers' didn't want because they were too far gone (attached is a photo of one of them, which contributed its top irons, rumble seat lid, etc.).  In short, while I agree with the criticisms of somebody who chops up and then cobbles together what was a nice restorable or otherwise rare car with no sense whatsoever of history, proportion or style, some of those are available because those of us 'serious' collectors didn't see fit to save them.  Not everybody can afford a matching numbers 69 Z-28 or a 48 Packard Custom 8 convertible (both of which I love, by the way).  Let's all give thanks that at least these guys (or girls) are in a hobby/pastime that is generally worthwhile and certainly better than what a lot of folks spend their time and money on.  OK, I'm off my soap box... .  SMB



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  12. Steve--Here are a couple of photos of the seat tracks and floorboard in my 34 PE convertible, which is an early production model (it has the early style grille shell). All of this stuff is original from the factory and I believe should be the same in your PD. Note the support blocks mounted on the underside of the floorboard. There is another, tapered wood block (some kind of hardwood, looks like oak) between the tracks and the floorboard. The tracks themselves mount directly to the underside of the seat frame. The two seat tracks are connected to one another by a piece of sheet metal 'channel' with a hole in each end so that the two tracks work in unison even though there is only a hand control on the driver side. I have seen 3 different types of handles, one just a one-piece forged steel handle, another one with the nickel 'knob' insert like is shown in the pictures, and a third one as described above, with a nickel 'ring' for a handle. Working during the week but this Saturday or Sunday I will be working on my 34 and will take a couple of more detailed photos and send them your way. I do have a complete set as a 'spare' which I will also shoot you a photo of. Not particularly interested in parting with it but would be interested in a trade for any convertible-specific parts you might have. Looking in particular for a top piece (where the rear view mirror attaches) of the windshield frame and the pivot bracket (the cast piece that rivets on to the channel steel for the B-pillar and has a hole for the large bolt to pass through that the top irons pivot on). However, will consider any 33-34 convertible parts you might have to trade. Hope this helps. SMB






  13. OK, did some digging in 'Group 21', the section of the parts books dealing with the transmission.  Checked my 34 Dodge and Plymouth books, as well as the 33 Dodge and Plymouth 'Master Parts Lists'.  All of them agree:  33-34 Dodge and Plymouth all used the same gaskets, the large one for the rear is #600356 and the smaller one to the front (which the books refer to as 'Gearshift Rail Cover Gasket, Front') is #601567.  The ones on that 'Best Gasket' website look about right, nice resource.   Confirmed my 34 has a two-piece cover, still looking to see if I can find a spare 34 box or cover.  SMB

  14. Let me check, I might have one. If I have one it would be a 34, I will check my parts books to see if it is the same. P.S. Post some pics of your convertible coupe, love to exchange info with 33-34 convertible owners. SMB

  15. Couple of items:  First, correct that those heaters are gasoline fueled, get hot real fast, but can be dangerous.  Can't imagine why anyone (but a Model A Ford driver) would want a gasoline line running just above one's feet. (I think that is why it is called a 'firewall'...).  The one Dave shows is a South Wind manufactured unit.  They are still manufactured and can still be purchased new.  On the 'panel' v. 'sedan delivery', technically correct, sedan delivery is the single rear door model.  I believe Dodge never used that term, however, choosing to call it a 'commercial sedan'.  Photo attached of original 1933 ad.



  16. Dave--OK, I never thought I would part with it once I found it, but ask your customer if he would be willing to trade for my 34 Dodge DRXX coupe I bought recently, couple of photos attached that were on my prior post. As you know, DRXX is quite rare, only a couple of thousand of them made. Understand if he/she is not interested, but it doesn't hurt to ask. Hope your move is going well. SMBhttp://forums.aaca.org/uploads/monthly_10_2014/post-89602-143142770958_thumb.jpg

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