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Scott Bonesteel

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Posts posted by Scott Bonesteel

  1. The screws I have seen on 34s are exactly that, #6 x 3/8" slotted pan head screws. On further review of the part numbers listed above and actually going down and looking at the darn things, some of the 34s do have 'studs' on the cowl protector strip. The 142594 pan head screw checks in my 1929-1939 Plymouth Master Parts List as exactly that. However 104449, while listed, is listed as a "oval head rivet, split", 9/64 x 3/8, which doesn't sound right for even the radiator shell, much less the cowl. I found on my 34 Plymouths, as well as on a 34 Dodge humpback, both screws and these 'nails' or perhaps 'studs', pictures of both of which are below. I would guess these are the 'cowl protector strip drive stud' as that describes them exactly. They have a flat head and are not exactly a threaded nail--they look like a large upholstery tack that has been 'pinched' mid-shaft to provide a self-threading bump of sorts. Probably cheaper than threading them. Closer to nails than to rivets or screws. Shaft is about 1/2" long. Hope the pictures help.

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  2. Keeping in mind that my experience is mostly with 34s, every one I have ever seen has the nickel split rivets on the radiator shell welting but uses small, pan head slotted sheet metal screws on the welting on the cowl that screw through the welting into the cowl. This makes sense because it would be simple, during original construction at the factory (which is usually what controls how things are built), to rivet the radiator shell because the tool could be held on the edge of the shell and crimp the back side. Not so with the cowl, where to do so would require two people, one on the inside of the cowl and one on the outside. Therefore, easy to screw through the welting into the cowl, through the pre-drilled small holes along the welting installation line. I will shoot you a couple of photos later tonight and check my parts books--I will bet they list a cowl lacing 'screw' and not a rivet. SMB

    Those covers are at the body shop. I will photograph as soon as I visit again. I thought sedans had them as well.

    Also Erick, thanks for these informative photos. I know the hood lace, against which the hood rubs, is attached with nickel plated split rivets on the front. Your photo shows what looks to be split rivets also on cowl? This makes sense to me. All my Chevies use split rivets on front and "wire on" on the cowl. The difference is the Chevies have a loop with a bolt that draws up and tightens the "wire on". The Plymouth has no way to do this on cowl that I can see. Split rivets look to be correct, any other input on this?

    Thanks, Chris

  3. Tom and Dave--

    Checked all my part books. Trunk rack brackets, right (612782) and left (612783) are listed for 'coupe' in 'enamel' finish. They are shown as being on Plymouth PC coupes, US built, after #1804333; 1933 Plymouth PD coupe; 1933 Dodge DP coupe; 1934 Plymouth PF coupe. Looks like you have just the right set for your coupe. SMB

  4. And to REALLY CONFUSE THINGS, here is a set of purportedly 33 Plymouth trunk rack brackets currently on Ebay, supposedly from a sedan. Completely different from all the above versions. As I indicated in my prior post, there are numerous versions listed in the parts books. Absent casting or parts numbers, hard to tell exactly which one is appropriate.

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  5. Interesting that the support bars are different than the ones I posted for Tom, probably because the main bracket is configured differently. Tom's is a 33 so he should probably see you about the support bars rather than use the dimensions I posted from my 34--clearly the locking pin hole is in a different position and the curved bar appears to be longer.

  6. Tom--Here is a photo of the 'curved link' bracket and a diagram of its dimensions, best I could do. The link, like the straight one, is 3/8" thick stock, 7/8" wide. Using the letter and number designations on the drawing, these are the other dimensions:

    Hole 'A'--7/16"; Hole 'B'--11/32"; Hole 'C'--3/8". Hole 'C' is where the bracket attaches to the rack. Attaches with a 3/8 SAE x 1" bolt, with a nut and starwasher.

    Other dimensions: 1. 7 3/8"; 2. 6 5/8"; 3. 5 1/4"; 4. 1 5/16; 5. 1 3/4"; 6. 7/16"; 7. 7/16"; 8. 7/8". SMB

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  7. Dual sidemounts were, as far as I am aware, always an option on the commercial vehicles, at least as far as the commercial sedan and commercial panel (humpback) were concerned. Examples: The January 1933 Sales brochure for the "New Finer, More Beautiful Dodge Commercial Sedan" lists "six wheels mounted in fender wells" as available "EXTRA EQUIPMENT". The April 1934 sales brochure for the KC and KCL lists the same "EXTRA EQUIPMENT". The May 1935 sales brochure for the KC and KCL has similar language, "six wheels with spares mounting in fender wells". While none of those show a left (driver's side) mounted spare, one is shown on a 35 (first series) KCL advertising brochure I have, with another pair of left-sidemount KCL panels shown in a January 1934 Dodge "Dependable Trucks for Department Stores" sales brochure, the panels apparently just having been delivered to a Philly department store called Dewees. The Ross Roy Comparative Handbook for 3/1/35 lists for both the KC and the KCL lists a "Six Wheel" extra equipment option with "extra fender well and tire lock" for $10 if you wanted 5.25/17 steel spoke wheels/tires or $30 if you wanted 6.00/16 steel spoke wheels/tires. Finally, pages 176 and 177 of the "Dodge and Plymouth Parts Buyers Guide, A Catalogue of Original Factory Parts", Chrysler Corporation publication D-3532 with prices effective 11/15/35, lists both left and right side welled fenders for the HC, HCL, KC and KCL--$13 each, choice of enamel or primed. How times have changed! My 34 KCL humpback has a standard, right side spare with no evidence of ever having a driver's side spare. SMB

    Got any pictures of left side fender mounts? I don't think dual fender mounts were an option on commercial vehicles.
  8. Tom--Hopefully this will simplify rather than complicate things. Attached is a series of pictures of the trunk rack on my 34 PE sedan, as well as of another rack and bracket set I picked up at a swap meet last year. I think you will find that the 2 holes at the front of the bracket are different diameters, one of them smaller. That smaller hole is for a locking pin or 'screw' as the parts book calls it to lock the rack in place when it is 'up' without a trunk on it. The ends of the two brackets, one straight (the one to the rear) and one curved (the one to the front) are attached to the support brackets and to the rack with bolts. In my pictures you can see I have substituted a pin and cotter pin for the small screw (easier to remove, no tools required on the road). When it is removed, the trunk rack can swing down flat to have a trunk placed on it. Don't know if you have the four brackets, but the straight ones are 3/8" bar stock, 7/8" wide and 6-1/4" overall, with the holes 5-1/2" on center. I'll make you a drawing of the curved one if you don't have it. Two things: The number of combinations of racks and brackets across 33-34 is staggering but the Plymouth ones are general the same and the Dodge ones different, due to the shape of the rear of the Dodge body 'ducktail' on the 34s. The 33 support brackets, much like the spare tire holder, bolt into the vertical flange of the rear cross-member as opposed to the 34s, which bolt through the top of the cross-member. Some have the supporting cross-rods above the panel, some below. However, I believe the racks themselves and the 4 swiveling brackets, are the same, Dodge and Plymouth, 33 and 34, with the sole exception being the boss at the top which is either for the Plymouth shield or the Dodge Wings. Second thing, forgive the sawdust all over everything, I was cutting up some plywood in the garage this past weekend... . SMB

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  9. Not 34 Plymouth. The rear quarter windows are too wide. Plymouth also had opening rear quarter windows but they were narrower. In addition, although somebody's cousin is right in the way, I think you can see that the rear panel is starting to slope outward. The 34 Dodge has a duck-tail type rear panel, not cropped short like the 34 Plymouth shown above in Leif's photo. From what you can see, if it was a 34 Plymouth I would think you should be able to already see the panel bending in or perhaps even the lower body detail line. Although 34 Plymouths (at least the PE and PF models) also had the 'dual function' front door window vents, car is definitely not 34 Plymouth. I'm thinking 34 Dodge although I am not familiar enough with 34 Chryslers to rule them out. Anybody for a Desoto? Attached pictures, in order, 34 Dodge sedan rear and my 34 Plymouth PE 4-dr.post-89602-143142320766_thumb.jpg

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  10. OK, took me awhile, but here are the pictures of the seat tracks and floorboard. Both are original 34 Plymouth. The tracks are slightly different from the 33 tracks your pictures show but I have a set identical to yours that were obviously originals in my 34 PE 4-dr sedan, which is a very early production (by the body number and it has the early style 34 grille shell) so I assume they were left over 33 parts. Those tracks are the same length as the 34s in these pictures, they mount to an identical seat frame, so the mounting dimensions are probably the same. The rear mounting bolt is 4-1/2" from the rear edge of the floorboard. As stated in my earlier post, this places the seat right up against the top well when the seat is all the way back on the tracks. PS, I have a 525x17 sidemount cover that is probably 32 or 33 if you or anyone else is interested. Doesn't work with my 34s. post-89602-143142313278_thumb.jpg

    Chris--Will yank the seat out and shoot a couple of pictures and post them Saturday. SMB

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  11. This is a spare tire cover emblem from a 34 Plymouth. The small stud below helps keep it from rotating, the upper part came with a brass grommet type shaft (hollow) that was bent over at the factory to secure it to the sheet metal spare cover. They usually are gone when they have been removed from the covers unless someone has been REALLY careful. The silver trim says it is 34, the fact that it says 'Motors' instead of 'Corp.' means it is 34 and not 35. See attached picture of the one on my 34 PE. Not a grille emblem, those are flat on the 34 with a single square boss with a threaded hole in it. Not a trunk rack emblem, those are about the same as the grille emblems except with a very slight curve to them, not as curved as the spare tire cover emblems.post-89602-143142274936_thumb.jpg

    The emblem has a curve to it.
  12. Terry--Thank you for the input. I actually framed and matter the print and as originally found, it was in a small, period frame and glass, without a mat, mounted on very thin backing. There was no border whatsoever and nothing regarding the printer or any other lettering. If it had a border, it was trimmed off before it was framed long ago. I carefully attempted to lift the edge of the print, which is on very thin paper, and it was clear there was nothing on the back. It is a true lithograph. Like you, I really like the image, I just wish I could identify where it came from. Perhaps it is lost to the ages. While I note the wings on the figure, the outfit still looks to me like an early motorist--I am very familiar with flying garb of the time and this looks to be way too loose and the hat/head covering is nothing like anything I have seen on pilots of the period. Thanks again. SMB

  13. OK, somebody must recognize this one. Picked it up about a year ago, was advertised as a "WWI Pilot" when it clearly looks like an early motorist in a duster, cap and goggles. It is an original lithograph on very thin paper with nothing on the reverse. I have never seen another one like it and, obviously, it has no lettering to help identify it. Early ad for road flares? You got me, I just love the image.post-89602-143142271263_thumb.jpg

  14. Chris--Will yank the seat out and shoot a couple of pictures and post them Saturday. SMB

    Scott,

    I hope my package tray front turns out as well as your's did.

    Yes, the cowl and firewall will be painted a glossy black.

    When you get a moment could you post a photo of your floor board where the seat tracks bolt to? This will help me locate the holes I need to drill for mine.

    Thanks, Chris

  15. Chris--Car is looking great, you are moving along much faster than I am on my 34. On the door dovetails, I don't have any but Dave at Dodge City in Jamestown apparently has some. On the package tray, my metal man fabricated the tray on my 34 based upon the photo of the red 34 further up in this thread and following the curve on the back of the seat frame. We left it moveable (attached with sheet metal screws temporarily, to be welded when finalized) and I have just finally located and trimmed it. Used the dimensions I had, plus those in the AACA Dodge forum on the convertible 34 that is being built there, which match up with the ones you have. As you can see from the photos, the positioning leaves enough for the top, including the header bow, to fold into the well. In addition, with the front of the well located where it is, when the seat--which is installed on the original floorboard, in the original mounting holes--is pushed all the way back (i.e., in the last notch), the seat basically snugs up against the well. Probably as close as I am going to get it. Keep up the good work, your 33 is looking great. One comment, I think the black under the hood (on the front of the cowl) is more of a gloss or semi-gloss, at least that is what I have seen on the original cowls I have seen. Plymouth club guys are probably the best authority on this one. SMBpost-89602-143142269775_thumb.jpg

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