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Scott Bonesteel

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Posts posted by Scott Bonesteel

  1. As I indicated in my private reply and as ply33 indicates, foreign Plymouths only for 33 and 34 roadsters. The ones in the states are 'convertible coupes' like my 34 PE or Chris in Texas 33, roll up windows like what the Ford guys call a cabriolet. Plymouths (and Dodges) convertible coupes do have a fold down windshield like a roadster, unlike most other cabriolets, where the windshield pillar is an extension of the body sheet metal. I have attached two of the few pictures I have of a Plymouth roadster, I believe this is a 34 Australian version. If you look at the top bows (and I am assuming these are originals, I don't know), there is no true 'B' pillar like in the convertible coupes (which is needed for the window frame to roll up against), the pivot point being further to the rear of the car. The third picture is my 34 convertible coupe, so you can see the difference. In short, the top bows would not interchange. None of my part books show any roadster parts so no help there. Good luck on finding a set of those unless you can hunt in Australia. I would suggest you contact someone 'down under'. 33-34 convertible coupe top bows are nearly impossible to find and I would wager that roadster top bows ARE impossible to find. Post some pictures!!post-89602-143142981756_thumb.jpg

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  2. Now that it's home I can start to find out what it actually is, over time it's been cut about a bit but most things can be mended.

    Can you identify this rear?

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    Late model rear end for sure, see the tube shocks instead of the lever shocks. Looking at the side profile of the cab I again note that there will be a mis-match with the 33-style cowl and the 34 PE long hood. Who knows... . SMB

  3. As indicated, those two pieces are found on 33s and 34s (the other parts in your photos are from a 33) go on the lower front corner of the door jamb, tacked into the A-pillar wood trim and screwed with one slotted sheet metal screw into the floor steel. Photo of one installed in a 2-door sedan is attached, the small black item at the corner of the door. These are also reproduced and hard to tell from the originals.post-89602-143142843661_thumb.jpg

  4. Dave, I know you are a Dodge guy but I was wondering if you know of any plymouth resources. This 34 roadster has a serial number -woohoo! ! 3009270. it also has a tag on the firewall -30319cc. don't quite know what that one is. There is another tag on the firewall but I don't see any numbers on it. can you point me in the right direction?

    I see that Dave has provided you with the serial number run for 34s. The 3009270 on the door jamb plate is the car serial number, which should match the engine block number if the engine was never changed. The '3' series of serial numbers is an indication that the car was built in California (Los Angeles) rather than in Detroit. The other number on the firewall plate is the body number, with the 'CC' standing for convertible coupe. In contrast, a business coupe would have had a 'BC' suffix. The other tag on the firewall is the manufacturer's plate, which would have been red with lettering on it (although I have seen some early 34s with black plates) and stating Plymouth, Division of Chrysler, etc. These are almost always washed out (they were just painted, not stamped or engraved) and are the same for all 34 Plymouths. Very good reproductions are available, although they can be a little pricey. A photo of one is attached. One final number you may not have seen, if you look at the top of the firewall on the drivers side, next to the coil hole, there should be another number stamped into the metal. This is found on many coupes and convertibles. My 34 convertible has it, as does another firewall I have from a 34 convertible. My understanding is that these are basically convertible body numbers, and they run consecutively from 33 through 34, which makes the number run only about 8000 total. Let me know if you have any further questions.

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  5. OK, having looked at all of the above, here are a couple of comments about why I would conclude this is a Dodge pickup cab that has been 'converted' to a Plymouth. First, the body tag is PD two door sedan. However, a two-door sedan would have had bucket seats in it. The problem is not with the bench seat there now but with the floor cross-member just ahead of the seat. Every 33-34 two door I have ever seen has brackets on that cross-member for the front pivot for the two door sedan bucket seats, so they can swing forward for access to the rear seat. If somebody was trying to get a better ration sticker with a truck there is no reason they would go to that detail. Second, the rear top corner of the doors is a dead giveaway to me that this was originally a truck cab and not a conversion from any type of car. The trucks have what this have: A rounded upper rear corner on the door, with the rain gutter following it around. All of the cars, as well as the KCL panels, have a squared off corner on the top rear corner. Again, no way someone would have gone to that amount of trouble to convert one of these. I will bet that upon close examination you will be able to tell that somebody swapped out the dash in this one. Interesting debate guys.

  6. OK, got a better look at the photos you had in your last post--looks like somebody has been doing some serious fooling around with this one. As per my prior response, cab looks like 33-34-early 35 series Dodge truck cab. The top rear corner of truck doors are rounded off and that is what you have, following the rain gutter. All of the 33-34 Dodge cars and even the KCL panel has a squared off corner, so I would seriously doubt that this was converted from a sedan. Particularly with the belt pattern and the bead on the B pillar, pretty sure this is an original Dodge truck cab.

    Hood is 34 Plymouth PE, 114" wheelbase, nothing else looks like that. Front fenders also look like 34 PE, they have the skirts on them and they are the longer skirts, so it is not from a short wheelbase PF or PG. In addition, the hood would be way too long otherwise. Those marker lights are not stock but I have seen them on some foreign 34 PEs and there is a guy in the Northeast (of the US) that used to have a couple of 34 convertible coupes with them so who knows. Note that the rear of your hood does not match up with the cowl vent area. That is because the 34 has a much wider cowl vent and cowl vent area than the 33s. Yours is definitely a 33 cowl. Who knows how that dash got in there, I agree with the posts above, looks like mid-30s Buick.

    Finally, the running boards look like 34s as they are wider than the 33s. What is interesting is that they look like they fit nicely with the rear fenders, which are clearly truck fenders (which have a 90 degree flange to mount against the bed sides as opposed to holes in the top lip on all of the sedans, coupes, commercial sedans and panels--similar to how the rear fenders attach on your 33 coupe). One might speculate that this is one of the rumored 34 Plymouth pickups that may have been made--there was an article about that in a Plymouth Bulletin from many years ago. If I recall, the conclusion was that they were never made, but who knows. Having played around with these cars since the early 1970s I have concluded that the more you know, the more you realize how little you know. Would be interested in seeing (1)what the front frame and suspension looks like when you get it home and (2) what a close inspection tells you about the dash, i.e., if you stick your head up under there, can you tell if it was grafted in there. Have fun and keep us posted.

  7. Ian--OK, catching up on a couple of questions. Attached, probably in a couple of posts, are various photos on the various topics above. DRXX firewall tag photo is attached, also showing 'BC' for business coupe. Note that the firewall itself is also stamped "491xx", which I can only assume it was the 491st (out of 2500 built) DRXX business coupes. I have seen similar number stamps on 34 Plymouth PE coupes and convertible coupes, number sequences that do not seem to correlate with either the body number or the serial number. On the issue of the window garnishes, found a nice old contemporary photo of a DRXX and you can see that the garnish is narrow, different than the DR (which has the breaker window thumbscrew), which comports with what the parts books show, that being a different part number for the DRXX window garnishes. Have included a couple of photos of my door panels and garnishes, as found, as well as one shot down the window slot, showing the 'stops' for the DR-type windows, which also comports with the parts books stating that the doors are the same part number.post-89602-143142799284_thumb.jpg

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  8. If there is no serial number on the passenger door jamb, is there a 'Briggs Body Number' plate on the firewall? If so, all PE 4-door sedans had numbers that started with a '600' prefix.

  9. Wheels look like later, circa 37 Mopar. Both the 34 PE (114" wheelbase) and the 34 Dodge (117" wheelbase DR, DRXX; 121" DS) had artillery wheels, each with a different pattern. The Plymouth wheels have more of a 'hole' configuration, with the 16" wheel having 10 holes and the 17" wheel having 12 holes. Dodge 34 rims have more of a raised spoke look to them and have a reinforcing piece around the hole for the hubcap. On both, the hubcaps snap into an opening in the wheel. The center section of the wheels is actually made of two parts, an inner and an outer piece, sandwiched together. My experience with the Plymouth wheels is that they are prone to bending and cracking around the bolt holes. 35-36 artillery wheels, at least on the Plymouths, look basically the same with a hubcap on them (although the stripe configuration on the hubcap is slightly different, the 34 stripe being closer to the edge of the cap). The 35-36 rim center is one piece, however, with clips riveted on to hold the caps. See the attached pictures. Attached photos of two 34 Plymouth coupes and a 34 Dodge convertible coupe, showing the artillery wheels.

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    Thanks for your input gents, be interesting when I get it home to find out who's gauges they are, someone PM me yesterday saying it looked like 34/35 Buick. The wheels are on PE hubs but I thought they should be steel artillery. What would be the Dodge variant of the PE regarding wheel base, PE is 114".

    Thanks

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  10. I took a rag and a little bit of Meguire's polish/cleaner, buffed a small area and rubbed it clean, all by hand, once it dried. Polished up quite nicely. Paint is the original Golden Beige Poly. A good solid weekend with a clay bar, some wax and some elbow grease and I think it will look great. Thanks to Dave for the water pump numbers. On the window garnishes and the headlights/lenses/reflectors, my 34 Dodge parts book seems to show that the window garnish is unique to the DRXX while it uses the same interior panels--guess they were not that picky about the garnishes matching the door panels. The headlights, lenses and reflectors are all apparently unique to the DRXX, or at least different from the DR and DS.

    That is a good straight car, Scott - and you must still be pinching yourself! I have a soft spot for the 34 Dodge but don't know that much about them. There are others here who are pretty knowledgeable so I expect them to come forward with answers to your questions.

    Does the paint polish up or will it need redoing? Would be nice if it could be kept original. Sounds like you are the right guy for this car!

    Ray.

  11. Hello all--As my avatar shows, I have always been a 34 Plymouth PE guy (despite having owned a 34 KCL panel for years...). I simply could not pass this one up: 34 DRXX business coupe, purchased from the family of the original owner and garaged all its life. Pictures show how straight the darn thing is. Unmolested, basically all stock, original DR 218. Came out of Northern California and is basically rust free. Attached photos show it when I picked it up a little over a month ago (yes, they are still out there!). While I am very familiar with the subtle differences between the various 34 Plymouths and the specifications for a 34 DR, this DRXX has some differences that I need to clarify. Somebody out there must know the answers to these questions:

    --Doors on the DRXX have just the single glass as opposed to the dual-function with windwing found on the DR. This car has window garnishes without all the curves and the deep skirt. Basically look like a 33 Dodge or Plymouth with a very short, straight skirt and without the cutout for the vent 'shift lever'. Is this correct? Seems like the DR garnish would be incorrect because it has the hole for the windwing thumbscrew.

    --Headlights are not the elongated ones with the ridge on top I have always seen on DRs. They are Stabilites, a little bit stubbier and without the top ridge. A sealed beam conversion has been done. Do they take the same lens and reflector as the DR? I know, for example, that the cheaper 34 PF and PG Plymouths had a different lens than the more expensive PE and I would suspect that this 'cheapo' model Dodge might have the same. Headlight stanchions are the same as the DR but have blocking plates for the horn wires.

    --What is the upholstery pattern on the doors? Seems like the pattern with the fancy top scroll to match the DR garnish molding would be incorrect, but that is what it has. Haven't taken them off but if you look in the top of the window slot you can see that some of the stops for the DR-type windows are there, without the thumbscrew mechanism. The door panels have the DR-type ridges on them, which look somewhat strange as there is no hole or thumbscrew for the wind wing.

    --While not (I don't think) DRXX specific, what water pump does this 34 DR 218 take? All of the replacements I see are 35 and up. Perhaps they fit but could use some help on this one. Want to keep this one as original as possible but I'm too old to do this more than once. Thanks in advance for your help. SMB

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  12. That is a rear trunk ('boot' to y'all) emblem from about a '37. Note that it says 'CORP' instead of 'MOTORS'. Use of 'CHRYSLER CORP PRODUCT' did not appear until 35 on Plymouth emblems. Might look nice but not correct for your 33. I think I agree with the prior posts to the effect that those holes were probably there from a later added license plate. Or maybe somebody put a 37 emblem on there, who knows at this point. SMB

  13. I would like to know if the window frames on the 1933 PD convertible are stainless steel or chrome plated? thank you Erick
    I believe they are actually a steel frame with a stainless shell crimped over the top. Or they are in fact chromed steel. I have a NOS or very early takeout 33 Plymouth convertible coupe window and frame assembly, picture attached. While it looks like stainless steel, it holds a magnet. If you look closely at the inside edge of the channel, you can see that the edge appears to be crimped over, perhaps over a steel core. Chris has a set of 33 frames he got from me which do not have the glass in them so he can probably give you a better idea.

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  14. Engine and drivetrain all there and seems to be free. Last run about 3-4 years ago but needs the radiator re-done and a new water pump. Came from the family of the original owner who have had the car since 34. Has about 76,000 original miles on it, with only about 500 since 1961 when it was pretty much retired to the garage--has been in covered storage ever since. Upholstery has been redone, I believe in the early 1070s, in a roughly correct pattern but the rest of the car is untouched and original. Even has the spare wheel lock on the rear spare, under the hubcap (on the lug nut) that has the original Omega 'bent key' that matches the ignition key. I have never seen one of these. Will try to get the rest of the car cleaned up (I literally only hosed off the front end and dried it before taking the above picture) next weekend and will take some pictures to share. Nice original car that should not take too much to get it back on the road. Wasn't really looking for another car (trying to get my 34 PE convertible back on the road...) but this one was too nice to pass up. Best as I can tell, while there were about 15,000 DRXX models built, all in Detroit, only about 2000 of those were business coupes. SMB

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