58L-Y8

Hi Vermontboy That's a good point, wonder if Seagrave bought not only the engine tooling and equipment but also the service parts supply along with it as an ancillary business.

Hi Kirk The best sources are these books, others will cite their favorites: Packard, A History of the Motorcar and The Company, Edited by Beverly Rae Kimes, published by Automobile Quarterly. The Classic Era by Beverly Rae Kimes and the Classic Car Club of American The Coachbuilt Packard and The Custom Body Era by Hugo Pfau The aforementioned www.coachbuilt.com is a good on-line source, though the books give context to the culture that gave rise to these art-on-wheels masterpieces. If you have a penchant for stellar engineering, magnificent design, bespoke craftsmanship within their respective era, the Classic and coachbuilt automobile will fascinate for life! Thanks for the photos, it's an absolute stunner! Is it your Packard or owned by a customer?

Hi vintagerodshop The Packard factory catalogued a Dietrich convertible Victoria in the Models 833 and 840 Individual Custom lines only. The Deluxe 845 list only 5 passenger Sedan and 7 passenger Sedan-Limousine as factory installed body types. Deluxe 845 Convertible Victorias would have been customer ordered at the Custom Salons. Whether Rollston or Waterhouse, they are the most elegant and extravagantly luxurious of Packards for those years.

Hi Trimacar Yes indeed, some of those self-anointed old car experts of yesteryear came up with some crazy tales. From what I recall about him, if he were still with us, you could show him your 160's engine, point out how it differed from the Pierce and he'd still argue he was right! He definitely was one who wasn't to be persuaded with facts........!

This one, a '41 160 Model 1904: http://wilmington.craigslist.org/cto/4818284129.html

Hi Trimacar Thanks for the answer, I've seen Seagraves with their modified version of the Pierce Twelve but can't recall any with the straight eight. That might be because I just missed the few left that have them. Seagrave must have bought the tools and dies for those engines very cheaply. One reason I ask was an old-time collector here years ago swore the Pierce straight eight engine tooling was bought by Packard to create their 356 ci engine for 1940. I have no idea how he got that idea but it was just one of the choice bits of "inside" knowledge he was glad to retell.

Love the club sedan, such nice proportions! BTW, interesting Packards in the background. Please tell us about them.

Reading late company history named Seagrave as the buyer of the twelve cylinder engine tooling, built the engine until the late 1960's. So, the question is, did another company buy the straight eight engine tooling at the 1938 auction and build engines with it?

Seeing these concepts makes me wish Edsel and E.T. Gregorie had more time and resources to concentrate on filling out the Continental and Custom model lines with elegant custom styles, even if only a handful of each were built.

Anyone who dismisses an old car because it's a four door does himself an immense disservice. That outlook overlooks better than half of all the rich automotive history represented in that body style. For those who primarily equate 'worth' with return on dollars invested, I'd recommend they look elsewhere for a more satisfactorily remunerative hobby........ and leave the old cars alone for those who truly understand and appreciate their intrinsic value.

Better they should have given a program such as this a try rather than continued as they did. Waiting for the market to completely kill off any chance of revival when all was lost and no financing could be had was a lousy business strategy. Thanks for giving us a look at what should have been.

Pinin Farina, along with other Italian coachbuilders, did not seem to have a design feel for large cars. Almost without exception, their efforts in that direction come off as awkward, unattractive, even amateurish. If the Jacqueline was built with the objective of garnering further coachbuilding for GM after the last of the 1960 Eldorado Brougham production, perhaps they simply should have ask Bill Mitchell for designs he selected from the various studios worthy of being built, had chassis shipped to them as blank slates. If they had done so, we might have had a series of worthwhile Pinin Farina 1960's GM concept/dream cars in addition to those built in-house.

I knew these suggestions would generate discussion which was the original purpose, as well as suggest ideas that might contribute to the show enjoyment. We've all been to meets that become set-in-stone, are almost interchangeable year-to-year. They become stale and eventually participation falls off. While I doubt if Hershey is in any danger, a little mixing it up every once in a while keeps things fresh. As far as the spaced-parking suggestion, leaving enough space between so doors on each car can be opened without danger of contacted the car next to it would help not only the owners but participants move among them. The diagonal and spaced parking tried out in DPC initially would be a good test case whether it can be accomplished and if folks like it. For HPOF, merely suggest to car owners in their registration packets that they park next to another car built within ten years of their car's model year. Let them work out the logistics as best they can. No hard and fast rule, just let their intelligence take over and organize the decade grouping. Hope these will be considered and tried if it can be done without major disruptions of what is a pretty fine show now.

A real time capsule! And so rare! Hope to see it at Hershey in HPOF. Quick, someone buy and preserve this treasure before a despoiler obliterates it for a quick buck.

Hi As much as I enjoy the Hershey show annually, I offer the following suggestions for show car parking practices that might make it even more enjoyable. Each is made with the objective of making each car more visible and accessible for everyone to see, photograph and move more easily among without fear of coming in contact with the next car. 1) As show cars arrive, park them with space for another car between the previously positioned car. This practice could go forward until enough arrived to start filling in the empty spaces which would then begin. 2) Diagonal parking initially in the HPOF and DPC Classes in addition to the above. Presently, cars group closely together leaving large empty spaces which should be utilized so each can be enjoyed more thoroughly. 3) Suggest to HPOF and DPC participants to park with other cars contemporary their car, not necessarily sorting strictly by years but loosely by era. Perhaps this would all be like herding cats and impractical but I hope some may be considered and tried to see if they would work. I think owners and participants would enjoy the results. Steve

Hi Kenneth I'll ask the fellow who has them to dig them out, try to get photos for you. Steve

Hi Lovely car! No doubt Fleetwood would have gladly built such at the time if so ordered. It's a pleasure to see a boat-tail done the right way i.e. with proper surface development. The complex, lofted surfaces shows the coachbuilder has an English Wheel and was skillful using it. As you may be aware, a number of Classic roadsters with missing rear decks have been restored as boat-tail speedsters by someone who didn't understand those surfaces and did them with simply flat sheet metal with minimal arcs. There is a Graham-Paige 835 that looks particularly terrible. Enjoy your handsome Cadillac V12 Speedster! Steve

Hi I will bring one NOS 1957 Clipper left front fender to Hershey Space GCC34 if interested, message me to have it brought. Thanks! Steve

Hi I will bring one NOS 1957 Clipper left front fender to Hershey Space GCC34 if interested, message me to have it brought. Thanks! Steve

Hi Will have miscellaneous 1956-57 Lincoln parts at Hershey GCC34. Thanks! Steve

Hi We'll have a 1954 supercharger removed from a car years ago at Hershey GCC34 for sale. Thanks! Steve

Hi I will have the following NOS Thunderbird parts at Hershey, space GCC34 in front of the Giant Center: NOS tailight lens, left and right for 1967-69 Thunderbird, part numbers C8SZ-13450-A and C8SZ-13450-B Rear Bumper Guard Kit, Part No. C9AZ-17984-A. Thanks! Steve

Hi Will be at space GCC34 in front of the Giant Center. Thanks! Steve

Hi Omitted the site location before, I'll be at GCC34 in front of the Giant Center. Thanks! Steve

Hi I will have the following NOS Thunderbird parts at Hershey: NOS tailight lens, left and right for 1967-69 Thunderbird, part numbers C8SZ-13450-A and C8SZ-13450-B Rear Bumper Guard Kit, Part No. C9AZ-17984-A. Steve