JV Puleo

Is there any way to search inside a thread? My own thread now has 96 pages so finding a particular picture is extremely time consuming even when I know it's there.

You might also consider free entry for pre-war cars. The simple fact is that local shows have become the gathering place for late models, hot rods and resto-mods. As someone who has no interest in those I wouldn't bother to take an early car...but those are the cars that, more often than not, excite real interest in the spectators. I've completely lost interest in local shows for that reason and I am certain other owners of earlier cars feel much the same. I have no idea what the demographics are in your part of Texas but here in New England there are still many early cars that rarely see the light of day, partly because the owners are simply not interested in being lumped in with the muscle cars and hot rods. As Christech above points out, at the least separate the cars by era so that if any pre-war cars do show up they can be grouped together. If space is limited it may be impossible to break parking down into narrowly-defined eras but at least separate the original cars from the modified ones and assign a small area to the earlier cars.

I like the basic idea ... to encourage community involvement but making it work so that everyone understands that anyone could win might be a challenge. Anything that implies that one car is "better" than the others is likely to generate hard feelings. If awards are deemed necessary, I would stick to those that can't be challenged on the basis of the car itself.

Some time ago a member of this forum related a story of a show that did just that. The Mayor asked his secretary to pick the winner...she picked one of those VW/Mercedes/Gazelle contraptions which made virtually everyone furious.

I think both John S and Walt G have made some very good suggestions. Judging at a local show is simply impossible. I've been in old cars for 40 years and I wouldn't dream of trying to judge anything from the late 30s on and not many of the cars earlier than that. If you must give awards, make them the sort of thing that no one can argue with...like longest distance driven, oldest car etc. Dash plaques...I have an envelope full of them. I never look at them and the only reason I save them is because the artist that did them was an old friend. I've never attached one to the dash and won't. Music...if you must have it, make it soft and put it over in a corner where the folks that don't care for it can ignore it. If it's so loud you have to shout to be heard by the guy next to you it's nothing but a detriment. I've literally driven by local shows with loud music including one held last week literally within walking distance of my house.

During WWI W.O. drove a V8 Cadillac. He enjoyed taking it to the RR factory where he'd point out that it was quieter than the RR cars...they did not have much sense of humor about that.

Early engines, especially those with aluminum crankcases were painted inside and out. This was to seal them because the castings were often porous. I'll be sending my aluminum crankcase to a local place that does vapor degreasing and a sealing technique that features a resin forced into the casting under pressure. This is a current industrial process because many modern aluminum castings are so thin that they are porous despite the advances in metallurgy since the early 20th century. I've no idea how important it is with a cast iron case but a friend who regularly built racing engines always did it.

The English PI was considered over the top when it was new. The original owner collected Louis XIV furniture and wanted the car to reflect that. In a closed car I prefer fine fabrics in subdued colors...real wood trim and a minimum of garish plating. In an open car I'd prefer high quality leather.

I may be off the air for a few days. I'm going to work at home tomorrow and over the weekend but, having made this square hole, I had an idea for a slightly better technique. I've ordered two 1/2" end mills and they won't be here until next week but I see no reason to hurry this job since I am close to getting it just about perfect.

Moving on with this piece, I finished it today. It's easily the best yet. It did come out a tiny bit too big - not enough to prevent it from being used but not quite what I'd wanted. It is, however, the spare and I think I now have enough experience to go on to the finished pieces.

I think I'd look into the Ross pistons first. Since you have to buy pistons in any case the difference in price may not be significant and it would solve all the fitment problems. The Mitchell also used that "extra ring to hold the pin" system. I think it was fairly common. Remember, this was before the invention of the oil-control ring so they saw the extra ring as an "upgrade". The floating pins are an advantage in that you don't have to deal with pin locks that can fall out...think Buicks of the period. The teflon plugs are readily available. My only question about them is "how long do they last". I say that because they are commonly used in racing engines which have a very short running life. I've never seen any reference to their long-term viability. You can also turn them out of aluminum. That was suggested by British authors Morgan & Wheatly. Their book, "The Restoration of Antique & Classic Cars", is long out of print and probably at odds with a lot of the "show-car thinking" today but contains many valuable tips regarding mechanical restoration. Needless to say, they were interested in driving old cars...a trailer is never mentioned. And...I find it impossible to do any job to a lesser standard on purpose...not just with cars. That doesn't mean everything I do is the best, it isn't, but its the best I can do. Besides, you have time on your side. I wouldn't see the Metz as the end but rather the beginning. As practice for eventually doing a bigger and more powerful car. Maybe even one of those that is all paint and bling with worn out or butchered mechanics.

I don't like sounding too critical but that reminds me of my one and only experience with giving a brass car engine to a machine shop. The man in charge had a sterling reputation but he did a number of things that I now shudder to think of. His reasoning was "it's only going to be used for parades" or some such idea. He had no conception of anyone actually driving a brass car any distance. I've said this before but it bears repeating..,this was the experience that convinced me that I had to learn to do it myself if I wanted the sort of job I felt comfortable with.

.025 could be fixed just by surface grinding. That's not very much but I like the idea of using the Metz rods. You'll have to take some measurements of the wrist pins but you should be able to make any wrist pin. Model T pins are fairly large...the number I remember is .750 but I've never had any interest in Fords so you can't take anything I say about them seriously. What size are the Metz pins? The length is immaterial...only the diameter counts.

Porosity was a significant problem with inexpensive cars at the time although more so with aluminum than cast iron. Iron casting technology was very good but, in my own case, the gentleman who bored the jugs told me that there was a significant difference between the two, one being quite a bit denser than the other. I have some reservations about modern insert bearings so I'd be curious to hear comments by someone who has put a lot of miles on a car so equipped. The "bent hairpin" cranks of the time flexed quite a bit and the Babbitt layer on inserts is very thin. I would never use them on main bearings but I'm wondering about connecting rods. If the inevitable crankshaft flex does not effect the rods then it should work but the thicker Babbitt of poured bearings is probably still preferable as it absorbs the flex without wearing through the surface.

Yes. The two piece valves I'm familiar with are very obvious. I'd go with a .312 reamer. If the stems are a little tight use a 5/16 barrel lap to open them up.

The two extra holes are for an antique valve grinding tool. (I have one) I doubt it has anything to to do with how they were made but the oldest valves usually have them which is why I asked. If you carefully wire brush the heads you ought to be able to see the interface where the stem was screwed in. The Mitchell valves could be either. I think mine are one piece but I know of a case where a piece came off one and was driven through the water jacket of a Mitchell from the inside. I found several half-heads in my REO when I took it apart so I'd be very careful. As to new valves, I have the name of a company that can furnish them by size so replacing them should not be a problem. Depending on the size, I may even have some. You need head diameter, stem diameter and length. Sometimes you have to get them a bit long and shorten them or, if the head diameter is a bit off they can be ground or even turned using carbide tools. These were stainless steel valves. The stainless used for valves is very tough to machine but it can be done. I prefer grinding them. A spark test should tell you.

Are those two-piece valves, made with a cast iron head and steel stem threaded into it? That was done because cast iron had far better heat resistance than any steel then available. However, they are a something of a risk. The head can break off and, in at least one case I know of, literally be driven through the piston or cylinder wall. In my own case, my first brass car, a 1910 REO, had two broken valves so this isn't a rare problem. The safest thing to do is to replace them with modern valves made in one piece. That flaw in the cylinder wall may be the result of a valve failure. I have the same feeling about working on original parts. It's far more relaxing to make something when you know that if it doesn't come out right you can do it again.

I'm still fiddling with the square holes and, quite frankly, taking my time. I've also a lot of work going on at the house and that really has to take top priority while the weather is good. Today I set up the "not quite perfect but usable" cross in the fixture. I spent a lot of time experimenting with putting in slightly smaller corner holes and eventually gave up. Even with a smaller end mill there is a gap where the corner hole meets the 1" hole in the center. You can't drill them because the drill needs to be supported all around and the 5/16" ind mill I tried was not stiff enough. In the end, I went back to the 3/8" end mill I'd used previously but in this case it's a roughing mill. If my previous experiments are any gauge of what I'm getting, this hole will be slightly undersize. The idea is to make the square with the roughing mill and finish it (enlarging it by about .010) with a finish end mill. So far, it's coming out best of all my trials so if this works I'll take a chance and do the finished pieces.

You might make a custom puller...a piece of tubing and a find thread bolt. If that doesn't work I'd say bore them out. The one thing you have to avoid is putting any stress on the block since cast iron is so brittle. What is the problem with fitting the Model T pistons to the rods? I presume the wrist pins aren't the same size but that should be solvable with bushings. I imagine Model T pistons are about the cheapest available so I'd use them if possible. Also. these early cars usually had the wrist pins locked in the connecting rod. That isn't necessary or even desirable although it was the state of the engineering before WWI. You could bush or bore your rods to the Model T size and use full floating wrist pins.

That's pretty bad...but at least you have a backup. I'd look into putting a sleeve in the questionable bore. Chances are they will all have to be bored in any case. Running on dirt roads without an air cleaner was very hard on them. All of the brass cars I'm familiar with had badly worn bores. Does this engine have removable valve guides or were they cast into the block? My own car had them cast in...a cheap expedient at the time and one that invariable takes some work to correct. In my case, the valves had 1/2" stems so I simply pressed in new valve guides and will use valves with a 5/16" stem. If the numbers don't work out you may have to bore the original guides. Needless to say, all this is much easier when the block is out and stripped so now is the time to discover these things.

I know of a very prominent museum where the former curator regarded all the cars as purely static displays. Under no circumstances were they to be run, much less driven. When he retired the new curator took a different approach and enlisted the support of volunteers to get the cars running again. It was one of those I was talking to. He was very nice and forthcoming but it was obvious from our conversation that he had very little knowledge of brass cars – nor did any of the other volunteers. So, in the interests of getting them to go they were turned over to a group of well-meaning and enthusiastic amateurs. This might work if the museum is full of 60s and 70s muscle cars...it won't work if you are dealing with high end pre-war cars.

That isn't the point at all. Most of my cars have been "junk" by the standards of this forum....so much so that if I'd started here rather than coming to internet forums after 30 years experience I'd have given up before I even started. The point is that museum cars are usually a huge question mark. The whole point of the museum is how the artifact looks...the mechanical aspects are usually ignored and, as a result, many are in need of serious work. How many of these museums have a staff that is ready and willing to diagnose and fix serious mechanical problems? In this case, it was freely admitted that the "volunteers" regularly turn the engines over, probably by hand. So, we can, at least, be sure they aren't stuck but does anyone know if they run...or how well if they do? I appreciate that we differ on this though. I don't have much respect for the uninformed buyer. That, of course, is exactly what the auction company wants. I make my own decisions really don't give a damn what anyone else thinks. I'm sure there are plenty here that think my "floor sweepings" Mitchell (a very apt description of it) is a colossal waste of time and money but it serves my purposes. Years ago I had a chance at a 1906 Lorraine-Dietrich, a very good French car. It was complete and running (sort of) and, in the words of the in-house mechanic who worked for a previous owner "was the most worn out car I've ever seen." I didn't get it...it was purchased by a doctor who promptly took it apart, realized he'd gotten in over his head and offered it for sale...for twice what he'd paid for it. I don't think this sort of event does our collective interests any good at all.

I'm in total agreement with 1912Staver. Ed's exposure to the market far surpasses mine...and, I dare say, most everyone on this site. Do I agree with him 100% of the time...no, I don't. But even when I disagree I place a high value on his insight. In a market where practically nobody does their own work any more the constant complaints about what it costs to have someone else do it become tiresome. Why does the person who can drop $100,000 on a pre-war car think that the person who can actually sort it's problems should work for a pittance. My observation is that all "museum" cars should be approached with caution. Would I buy one...yes, I would. Would I pay top dollar...not likely. You simply don't know what you are getting into. It could be great, or a turd with a fancy paint job. I don't think the general public thinks that way. Their assessments are all superficial, based strictly on appearance and I've little sympathy for the buyer who eventually finds he's bought a worn out rattletrap with nice paint.

Probably because you wouldn't dare write the sort of descriptions auction companies thrive on.

What does that look like on the outside of the crankcase? If the mill isn't a universal you can make a fixture, like the one I made for tapers on the axle crosses, to hold the dividing head. Setting the angle is easy. [edit] I see it is a universal so that's about 10 hours of work saved. That would not be an easy gear to make but I'll bet its readily available from Martin or Boston Gear.