65VerdeGS

Come to think of it, on my '65 I can remove the key when the car is running. Is this normal for a '65? Everything else works as it should with regard to the ignition key. What would cause the lock cylinder to allow the key to be removed while the car is running?

Hi David, Sorry to say, I don't think All American Classics will have any fenders for you. I was in Portland over the Valentine's day weekend and went to All American to scout their yard for Rivi parts. I spent quite a while walking around and was disappointed to see not a single first-Gen Riv in the lot. In years past I did see up to 5-6 early Rivs in their yard, but not this time. I may have missed one hiding somewhere, but doubt it as I spent quite a while there and asked at the front counter and the grumpy guy extracting parts in the yard. They have two junk yards - a main large one and a smaller fenced-in compound behind the front office. Here's where they keep the Corvette hulks and other presumed higher valued wrecks. You have to ask permission to go into the inner compound, which I did. No Rivs to be seen there either. I did however take this pic of a fairly complete '66 Toro that was there: If you're lucky they may have gotten in a '65 Riv since I was there, so do follow up with them. I think the '65 front fenders are different from the '63-64. Did you know that? I'd hate for you to buy the wrong fenders thinking they will fit your car! Good luck with your search.

Update - Last night I finished installing the new water pump. I used a torque wrench to ensure all bolts are tightened to spec. Getting the pulley, hub, and fan on to the water pump hub was fun. First time I put the pulley on backwards (it was getting late) 🤪. Putting it on right took rather less time. While I was at it I cleaned up the valve covers, gas deposits from dual carbs, degreased all around and ensured all wires and electrical connections were good. By now it was almost midnight, so I went to bed. This morning I refilled with coolant - yes, I used a 50/50 mix of tap water and undiluted antifreeze. Car started right up. Went to examine water pump.... To my chagrin I saw the small puddle forming again atop the timing cover 🤢 - Drat! Then got the idea to try some radiator stop-leak, what the hell, nothing to lose, right? So I drained the coolant and dissolved a canister of powdered AlumaSeal stop leak (this in a tube of brown metallic flakes) into the recovered coolant and re-filled the radiator with the new mixture. I started the car and as it ran I saw that leak slowly got less and less. Took the car for a drive to fully warm up the engine and circulate the coolant with the leak stop. After about 15 minutes checked again and NO LEAK! I'm pleased the leak appears to have been plugged, at least for now. I'm under no illusion that the timing cover won't leak again, but hope to get a few miles out of the car before having to tear into the engine again. At least I know I have a good water pump now!

Hi Winston - I see why using hard water might cause problems. Best option would be to use premix, but I already have a jug of pure antifreeze on hand. Here where I live the water is naturally soft, and anyone I've asked (including mechanics) just use tap water when mixing with antifreeze for the cooling system. Not looking to start another debate, but in case others want to know, the advice to use distilled water isn't unanimous: https://community.cartalk.com/t/distilled-water-for-radiators/13173/3 https://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/distilled-water-or-soft-water-in-radiator.717615/ https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/distilled-or-tap-water-for-your-radiator.1150373/ https://www.hyperlube.com/blog/blog/why-you-should-never-use-distilled-water-in-your-cooling-system/ "Just for kicks, like Route 66"

Thanks Winston. Good to know! I'm curious - what would be the reason to use distilled water in the cooling system? I'll admit to always have used tap water before. Maybe not a good move. Next I'll need to find where to buy tap water around here.🤒

Update - I got the new water pump on last night!: Quick questions: How tight should the pump bolts be tightened? The shop manual says something like 13-26 ft lbs. But, if I don't have a torque wrench, how tight is that? I cinched up all the bolts by hand with a ratchet, but not too tight. Should I be worried about how tight they are? How should the heater hose to water pump be routed. Does this lie on top of the other stuff in the space between the passenger side valve cover and the intake manifold? I forgot to take a photo before disassembly. It looks like the hose to the water pump could go underneath the other hose and then come out on top. On Winston's 401 engine the hose to the water pump sits on top. Should this be the same on a dual-quad 425? When refilling the cooling system, do I need to get distilled water? I live in the Pacific Northwest - land of soft, pure water. What harm would it do to use my tap water? Thanks for your help,

Thanks Winston, Bernie and others who added their know how. I'm going to replace the old water pump with a new 5-vane one I have on my shelf. I'm also going to replace the heater hose, just to eliminate potential problems. Today I painted the new water pump with Buick Green POR-15 enamel. First time I used this stuff. Pretty thick, but flows nicely when applied with a brush. Last question: Can I use this stuff to seal the water pump gasket? Is this "Gasket Maker" to be applied to BOTH sides of the water pump gasket? Can I also use it on the long water pump bolts that go thru the water jackets in the engine? I want to prevent any source of new leaks, of course! If this isn't the correct sealant, what should I use? Finally, should I use Anti-Seize compound on the water pump bolts? Thanks again for sharing your expertise.😎

Hi Winston - Here are some pics of the water pump area. First shot was taken when I first noticed the leak. The other two pics are of the water pump that I removed from the car last night. I'm now suspecting that the leak may have come from the heater hose connection. There certainly is a lot of 'crud' on the hose connection. The 3rd shot shows where coolant has run down the outside of the water pump beneath the connection. Maybe the Corbin clamp on the heater hose slowly worked loose, allowing coolant to seep into the timing cover 'valley' in behind?

Hi Winston, Boy I would be ecstatic if stop leak did the trick! What sort of stop leak would you use? Bars-Leaks fluid, or the pellet type? How much should I use? Any merit in trying to wedge something in the gasket area? I can reach inside the block to feel the mating surface of both block and timing cover. Would 'gooping' some sealant in there to cover the joint from inside do any good? What would you use? Thanks for your help!

Hi Kevin, Here are the photos. This fist one was taken when I noticed the leak last week. Notice coolant puddling in the 'valley' on the timing cover, above the fuel pump. The coolant dribbled down over the water pump. When the motor was running I mopped up the coolant on the timing cover and restarted the engine. The coolant was soon again visible on this same area, making me think it was coming from the junction between the timing cover and the engine block: This second photo was taken after I removed the water pump. As you can see, the gasket between the timing cover and the engine block looks 'wet' and somewhat eroded: Your thoughts?

I'd appreciate some advice on a coolant leak my '65 Riviera just developed. My car has its born-with 425 dual-quad engine. It was rebuilt about 12 years ago. I drive the car regularly, but only put maybe 1,500 miles on it per year. I've owned this Gran Sport since 1983, so we have a long history together.Last week I noticed coolant dripping down from the front of the engine from around the water pump area. I assumed the water pump had failed. Over the weekend I sourced a brand new water pump from NAPA and set to install it last night.All went well until I got the old pump off and upon examining it further noticed nothing seemingly wrong with it. There was no coolant coming from the weep hole and the bearings had only very minor play.While comparing photos I took of the leaking area before removing the water pump, I realized the leak was probably coming from the top passenger side of the timing cover. The coolant pools along a 'valley' formed by the webbing in this area of the timing cover, then drips down onto the water pump, as shown in this photo:This second photo was taken last night, after I removed the water pump:I'm guessing the coolant is escaping from the gasket between the engine block and the timing chain cover.So, to my questions: Is it common for the timing cover gasket to fail, at this location? Or, is the leak due to something else wrong with the timing cover? Looking at the front of the timing cover, it seems to be in pretty good shape, clean with no corrosion damage evident. But, maybe that's not the case where it meets the block. Is the leak coming from the gasket, or from the bolt. The bolt was not loose when I checked it. What should I do to fix this? Are special tools required? If it's the gasket that has failed, can I shove something in there to stop the leak? Or would it be worth putting in some coolant tablets or "Bars Leak" to try to plug the gap? Thanks for sharing your knowledge, and advice.

Thanks to guys like Tom we now have access to quality reproduction parts. When I got my '65 in 1983 there was almost nothing reproduced for these cars. We've come a long way since then so it's easier to restore these cars we love with correct reproduction replacements, or at least as reasonably correct as possible.

Hi Daryle, Can you post a photo of your original package tray, and a pic of Clars tray for comparison? I'm considering replaing the package tray on my '65 and wonder how similar the Clarks tray is to the original. Do I assume correctly that you have to paint the Clarks tray to match your interior? Thanks

Thanks Chimera for sharing the article. It wrongly cites the base engine size as 425 cu.in. Nice looking black on black '65. It will be interesting to see how much this car brings at auction later this month.

I'm confused - why does the '66 dual quad valve cover have a separate oil fill cap in the middle of the left valve cover? The '64/'65 dual quad motors only have the breather cap at the front. To add oil, you remove the breather cap and pour it in there. Why did Buick go to a separate oil fill opening on the '66 dual quad motor? Also, did ALL '66 dual quad left hand valve covers have that 'bump' or dip? This presumably to clear the A.I.R. pump. But I understand A.I.R. was only mandatory for cars sold new in California in '66 and '67. Did Buick use the bumped valve cover in all dual quad equipped cars, even those sold in states where AIR was not required?

Hi Winston, Great story on the '65 Riv your Dad bought brand new. I'm sure that car is out there... somewhere. Perhaps one day you'll be reunited with it. I've always loved 1st Gen Rivieras painted white. Very classy. Happy New Year!

Good story Winston. Is your dad's car the '65 you own today? What options did your dad special order from the factory? Love those old car stories...

My guess, and a guess only, is that Buick changed to the larger Gran Sport emblems at the end of '64 to make the car more identifiable on the street. The GS option was almost $300, a fair chunk of change those days, so bolder brand identification was likely tried to boost sales. The UAW began a nationwide strike against GM on Sept 26, 1964, just as the new '65's were introduced, including the new Riviera Gran Sport. Here from a New York Times article published that day: The strike halted domestic vehicle production at General Motors, which had been turning out about 16,100 cars and 2,600 trucks daily. The company had produced about 300,000 of its 1965 models, which were introduced in dealer showrooms yesterday. About 125,000 of its 1964 models were still unsold at the dealers. A spokesman said General Motors dealers would probably run out of 1965 models in about 12 days and all cars in 18 to 20 days. This GM strike lasted until October 25, 1964. Perhaps the Buick marketing managers kept busy coming up with ways to spur sales once production resumed after the strike. Bolder branding of the Riviera GS was probably a result, including the larger "Gran Sport" emblems.

Actually, that pedal is called the "Parking Brake". It is not really intended as an emergency brake, but of course can help bring the car to a stop in an emergency. However, note that our Rivieras are 2-ton vehicles, so don't expect a single set of rear brake shoes without hydraulic assist to stop the car very quickly. The braking system of most cars is designed so the front brakes carry about 70% of the stopping force, so the rear brakes, while better than nothing, aren't going to be very effective. How do I know? I had a total brake failure in my '65 Gran Sport in 2014 when driving home from the ROA meet in Monterey, CA. I was doing 70mph along I-5 entering Portland, Oregon when my brake pedal went to the floor - NOTHING!! A brief flash of panic ensued and then I thought - "What can I do"? I first shifted down from Drive into 2nd, using the engine compression to slow the car as I exited the freeway. The off-ramp led uphill, so I had a further assist from gravity. Once the car had slowed to about 30mph I dropped her into 1st. Only then did I judiciously apply the parking brake (AKA emergency brake) to bring the car to a full stop, luckily in a gas station! I determined the cause of brake failure to be a pinhole in the brake line running above the rear axle, as the MC was bone dry. I simply filled the reservoir back up, pumped the brakes and Back in Action! I would lose fluid with each brake application, but managed to get home to Vancouver BC by refilling the reservoir periodically. Another very handy use of the parking brake is while driving in snow. If your wheels lock up going downhill on a slope and the car starts to slide sideways then use the parking brake to lock up the rear wheels only. This will enable you to maintain directional control of the vehicle because the front wheels will continue to roll. I used that trick more than once to get me and the Riviera out of trouble in snow/ice.

Actually, that pedal is called the "Parking Brake". It is not really intended as an emergency brake, but of course can help bring the car to a stop in an emergency. However, note that our Rivieras are 2-ton vehicles, so don't expect a single set of rear brake shoes without hydraulic assist to stop the car very quickly. The braking system of most cars is designed so the front brakes carry about 70% of the stopping force, so the rear brakes, while better than nothing, aren't going to be very effective. How do I know? I had a total brake failure in my '65 Gran Sport in 2014 when driving home from the ROA meet in Monterey, CA. I was doing 70mph along I-5 entering Portland, Oregon when my brake pedal went to the floor - NOTHING!! A brief flash of panic ensued and then I thought - "What can I do"? I first shifted down from Drive into 2nd, using the engine compression to slow the car as I exited the freeway. The off-ramp led uphill, so I had a further assist from gravity. Once the car had slowed to about 30mph I dropped her into 1st. Only then did I judiciously apply the parking brake (AKA emergency brake) to bring the car to a full stop, luckily in a gas station! I determined the cause of brake failure to be a pinhole in the brake line running above the rear axle, as the MC was bone dry. I simply filled the reservoir back up, pumped the brakes and Back in Action! I would lose fluid with each brake application, but managed to get home to Vancouver BC by refilling the reservoir periodically. Another very handy use of the parking brake is while driving in snow. If your wheels lock up going downhill on a slope and the car starts to slide sideways then use the parking brake to lock up the rear wheels only. This will enable you to maintain directional control of the vehicle because the front wheels will continue to roll. I used that trick more than once to get me and the Riviera out of trouble in snow/ice.

Thanks guys for your comments on valve cover gaskets. Sounds like cork or rubber will work. I might try the Fel-Pro rubber ones this time, for a change. Cheers,

Anyone have a recommendation for valve cover gaskets to use on a 425 Super Wildcat engine? Mine has the stock aluminum valve covers. Presently the car has cork gaskets, which are starting to leak. I want to replace the gaskets, and refinish the valve covers. But wonder if there's a better valve cover gasket to use than cork. I've seen silicone rubber w/ steel core type gaskets (Fel-Pro) used to good effect on small block Chevy engines. Is there anything similar available for nailhead motors? Thanks,

The front grille on my '65 is in good shape, no broken tabs and the chrome is still bright. But, 54 years on the silver paint inside the fins needs repainting. I don't want to remove the grille from the car to refinish it. I removed the grille once. That involved a lot of cussing, so I'm not eager to risk damaging the grille or the surrounding paint to repaint its insides. Has anyone repainted the silvering inside the grille while it's still on the car? How did you go about it? Lastly, what rattle-can paint is the correct match for the OEM finish? Thanks,

Nice car, well bought. It does look a bit 'jacked up' at the rear. Maybe due to new springs, or air shocks pumped up?