1912Staver

And an unrestored one in the metal. Not particularly graceful in my eye.

I agree with JV about the body. A later creation in the style of about 1910. Mind you the stock bodywork on a 1913 Case is somewhat slab sided with a boxy cowl and moderately unattractive to my eye. But the Cars are well built and popular within Brass Era ranks. Here is a catalog illustration of a 1913 Case 30.

My biggest obstacle is space. With the emphasis on dry workshop space. I actually have a reasonable amount of mud. Life in the rain forest. But neither the wife or I like this property and have been attempting to move for a long time. House has some serious problems, a bit like your PA parts cars. It really needs the oldest 1/3 bulldozed and rebuilt with a proper foundation. But the estimates we have received are close to $500,000.00. Around $100,000 of that is the significant upgrade to the septic and well that would be a city mandated condition of a substantial renovation. It really only makes sense to sell this place to a developer and rebuy a different place with a existing , decent house. Construction costs in this area are out of this world. The regional price bubble is always one jump ahead of us. The local newspaper pointed out a shocking fact last week now that the latest property assessments were mailed out. Average family income is right around $85,000.00 / year. And the average single family house went up $300,000.00 this year alone. Just the closing costs and property purchase tax end up being a little in excess of $100,000.00 Everyone is waiting for the bubble to burst , wife and myself included. Even renting some shop space is extremely expensive . I have seen several 25 or 30 x 40 or 50 buildings in the corner of someone's farmyard for rent. But they are all asking $2500 / month and up. And most don't want people doing car work. So I pick away on small things I can manage in my basement workshop.

The auction car you show has a really odd top. I suspect it is an owner made modification. Fixed rear 2/3 and removable panel over the front seat ? I have never seen that style top on a McLaughlin before. Actually when I look at it closer it looks like only the center part is fixed. The front part looks like unsnaps, and I think the rearmost part can still be folded down.

If there is one car vs market price I don't understand it is the Fiat Jolly. More money than a Morgan +8, or Lotus super 7, for what ?

I am glad you said it so I don't have to. But yes, the kids have changed. When I retired from my Ship job a few years ago I thought I would renew my teaching credentials and be a Teacher on Call a few days a week. But part way through the process I reflected on what I saw in my sons school, he was in grade 12 at the time, and asked myself if I really wanted to get involved in the school system again. After a lot of soul searching I finally decided the stress and aggravation really was not worth the return.

It sure has that Stewart Warner look to it. But it seems to be an independent Co. Interesting and unusual. I don't recall seeing one before.

If they are nickeled brass castings they are most likely McLaughlin. U.S. Buick's used top irons of the same general shape and function but in steel. The Cage valve 6's anyway, not sure about earlier or later cars. One of the ways McLaughlin turned the middle class U.S. Buick 6 into a somewhat up market car in Canada. Also nicer wood dash boards on the Canadian cars rather than the plain steel ones used on their Buick counterparts.

I was briefly a HS shop teacher, 1989 / 90 time frame. The programs were still in pretty good shape, particularly woodworking. But the operating budgets were really starting to get thin , especially in the rural, remote locations where most of the jobs for new teachers were located. Most of the kids had quite a bit of interest , this was early in the video game era and before smart phones. But a fair number of difficult cases as well. They often took up a lot of my time with little to no good coming to anyone. Even then the focus was shifting away from the traditional trades and toward what was at the time termed Technology Education. Lots of vague , well intended learning goals, but little most students were ever going to make a living at. Sort of a glorified sweat hog science class without the math and physics. After a year of full time out in the boonies, and a term of teacher on call back in town I finally ended up back at my old Ship's Engineer job. Both had their good and bad points , but I could make a decent living as an Engineer. Teacher on call was slow starvation and would have gone on for several years unless I was willing to accept a permanent posting in the outback. Some of the automotive programs around me are still doing reasonably well , but it ends up being a ton of work for the teacher. The reality of underfunding makes everything 10 times harder. I always thought the Gov. agency in charge of the Shop curriculum was making a mistake shifting away from traditional skills. But at the time the thinking was that part was best taught in a Post Secondary setting. Expensive programs best targeted at people entering, and involved in the trades.

These points are not lost on me. There is without a doubt a significant minority of Canadians who have done very well over the last 20 years . Unfortunately I am not in that group. My main interest in this thread in the first case is that if these sort of cars are only of value as salvage of perhaps 20 or 25 % of their parts , the remainder being scrap, then they would theoretically at least be in the financial reach of those of us of more average means. And perhaps an alternative to the usual sort of " gray porridge " cars that are becoming the standby of the middle class and lower , Canadian { and American of course } old car owner. A good many average Canadian's are slowly { or quickly depending on your circumstances } loosing ground to the either truly out of whack housing costs , and / or the comparatively high tax, and cost of living vs generally so - so wages or retirement income that is the current reality for many of us. The thought that one might get a starting point, high quality car at a affordable price makes a nice fantasy if nothing else.

I should have known, a good network of scouts are a big piece of most success stories.

Heck, that's only 2000 miles each way. Practically next door. I was thinking you had something close to Massachusetts in mind. I hear there are lots of good cars just sitting in sheds in Nova Scotia.

Hopefully they are back east. Far enough away that even if they were free they probably wouldn't make sense for those of us out here in the far west.

The Peace country is reasonably remote even by British Columbia standards. As late as 1940 there were only about 8500 people spread over about 46,000 square miles. No doubt there are still a couple of gems in hiding , but a bit of a needle in a haystack. I used to work with a guy who was seriously into the steam traction engine hobby. A substantial number of the big Canadian Prairie traction engines ended their working days running saw mills in the Peace Country in the 1930's and 40's . He told me there were several people who hunted for traction engines and parts quite extensively in this area in the 1950's , 60's and 70's. But any good vintage cars they came across were often purchased as well , either for their own collections or to be sold to help offset the engine hobby cost. So hardly an untapped resource .

I figured you were already aware of this. All in jest of course , but please try to avoid harvesting Canadian cars. Those of us up here still foolish enough to try have an interest in the hobby are are scraping a barrel that has been picked to the bone for 50 years now. Gets pretty discouraging as the decades roll past.

I am sure this has occurred to you already Ed. But wouldn't at least some of these lost cause for restoration purposes sedan's still be viable as the start of a vintage tow truck or similar conversion ? Both myself and Matt Harwood ; and no doubt several others on the forum, are fans of such vehicles. A nice, long W.B. chassis. And turning a big sedan body into a truck like cab has to be way less work than rebuilding a badly deteriorated sedan back to stock form. Also the restoration standard for a working commercial conversion is substantially lower than for a classic car restoration. The cars were generally close to junk yard condition when converted in the first place. Some of the less than pristine sheet metal you are currently binning would be quite usable on a service vehicle conversion. I am a big fan of the later 1930's, 1940's , 1950's, GMC 6 engines, 270, 302 etc. Reasonably common and good parts availability. A 30's PA base with a GMC is still " vintage " enough to be in the spirit at least of a in period commercial conversion. Just throwing this out there as a possible way of keeping vintage steel out of the bin.

Looks interesting. That's a pretty remote area of the province. And rather sparsely populated. It's been picked over reasonably thoroughly from an early car point of view over the years. But in general terms the 1930 and up cars were usually of little interest. So no doubt still a few " finds " out there. Other than the value to the TV production, if you are using a helicopter to retrieve a 34 Chevy coupe that has sat next to a swamp for decades you have probably spent something like 10 times the value of the relic on the recovery. But that's show biz. P.S., I noticed on utube one of the comment's mentioned the crew of this show had " helped themselves " to vehicles on a friends private property. It might look like wilderness, but the land is often privately owned. Due to the climate a good number of the owners are only part time residents . But that doesn't mean every old vehicle is abandoned and up for grabs to anyone willing to drag it out of the bush. It probably would not make good TV, but the air spotter really would have to have a map showing Crown Land vs private property. Cars on Crown Land are probably fair game, but getting permission from a private owner can be a very drawn out process . Many times even after all the leg work to contact them they are either going to tell you to get lost or will want an unrealistic amount of money for rusty old tin. Then there is the sometimes anything but straightforward process of sorting out the paperwork. B.C. is easier than a lot of what I am hearing about U.S. titles. But still several hoops to jump through. Reality vs reality TV.

If your carb is as small as I think it is, this is the sort of machine I would expect it to have been fitted to. A circa 1905 Motosacoche. These were quite popular, and a number of other makes made quite similar machines. Mostly a heavy duty bicycle , with a 200 C.C. engine.

Yes, with the plating motorcycle is quite probable. But the question now would be O.E.M. or aftermarket ? It does look quite small, so probably a rather small engine. Could you post a similar picture with something like a tape measure tape near the carb to give us a sense of scale ?

I think what you are really saying Ed, is that the shortage is not the cars . But rather the most limiting things in many / most of our lives. Time, space and money. Having all three seems to be an increasingly rare thing.

Time does fly. I had just met the woman who became my wife a few months before Expo. We visited Expo a few times over the duration of the fair. Times were very tight for us. I was working as a mechanic at the time but saving every nickel possible so I could finish school. Future Wife was doing similar so she could attend Nursing School. But we had my rat bag old MGA and enjoyed life as much as we could. Still have both the MGA and the wife. Wife is in reasonably good working condition, MGA needs a good go through.

Of the PA's you posted at least one of the owners is still alive and active in the hobby.. But the current Vintage Car Club of Canada roster does not list him as owning a PA . He may still own it but just not list it anymore. He does still have a number of very nice cars. Last time I was talking to him he mentioned that he was selling off some of the older cars as he was finding them not as enjoyable to drive as he got older. He did however just buy back a remarkable, early { 1915 era } speedster conversion of a top tier U.S. prestige make that he sold 5 years or so in the past. One of my favorite local cars. I posted a photo of it in PFindlay's thread on surviving British Columbia pre- war cars.

No I don't understand. Like I said, I live in an area 1/2 the size of Europe { Western Canada } ,where the number of classic cars could probably be counted on a couple of person's fingers and toes. So things like your parts inventory are completely beyond my experience.

Not just a type 57 , but rather any model of Bugatti. I know it's a matter of 2022 supply and demand, but for many cars any part is almost a treasure. What makes these PA's so undesirable ? Top quality car, quite limited production. Known for decent road manners. Why are some cars ; perhaps not even as worthy in an apples to apples comparison , potentially rebuilt from a wheelbarrow of junk and a shovel full of rust ? And yet a reasonably complete PA 12 sedan is only worth salvage . With what , 70 % of the car ending up in the scrap bin . The current , much more deteriorated car seems to be about 85% scrap. Is the sedan body , Classic car market segment that depressed ? Up here in an area where any Classic is a very rare thing I don't get a good read on the hobby . 98% of the cars I encounter are very bread and butter. The other 2 % are owned by the 1 %. I don't personally desire to own a PA sedan. But they do seem in my eyes to be very worthy cars. If I won a lottery I would be looking for a Kissel like Ron Hausmann's current project. Although I suspect he found the last one. Concours restored cars do very little for me. It would only be Ron's starting point that I would be interested in. Do a minimum of what is necessary to be structurally sound and dependably road worthy. Ed, your treatment of Great White is my ideal ! And just enjoy it . Different strokes. P.S. , at least Ron is providing a great series of photo's of his car and all the details of its construction. If nothing else I can see just how they are built . Its the nuts and bolts, castings and forgings of these cars that fascinate me . Not the chrome , paint and leather.

Looking good ! I have very fond memories of the Bug Eye's / early sliding window Sprites and Midgets of my youth. I have been looking for another one for a few years now, but they seem to have dried up in my area. At one time they were almost as common as VW beetles. I still have a good quantity of mechanical parts stored away , more for my wife's Morris Minor convert and my Buckler basket case. But eventually one will turn up. There was one back in the summer { rough but intact $500.00 project car }, well out of my area . About a days drive into the British Columbia interior. By the time I mulled over whether it was worth two days of driving someone else snapped it up.