56Chief Posted September 4, 2016 Share Posted September 4, 2016 I am interested in feedback on what is best for a garage find regarding a 1956 Pontiac Chieftain Catalina. This particular car has sat in storage since 1974 and until August of 2016 was untouched. It has slightly more than 35000 original miles and all original right down to the brakes and tires. The tires are in amazing condition as the original owner removed them and put them into his house under cover. They look like new yet...unbelievable. Bought new in Michigan and made in Pontiac, the original owner recently passed away and his surviving spouse sold me the car. The interior is still in showroom condition (no mice). It is a two door hardtop with the automatic transmission. The two tone paint has cracked as lacquer will do over time. It was stored smartly by using jackstands on the frame, draining the radiator, fuel and brake lines. the owner waxed the dash and chrome in the interior. The wax still remains as I have not removed it yet. The car is a unique piece of history in my evaluation. Should I clean it up and leave the paint and chrome as is, work through brakes, fuel system and engine to make drivable or what? The tires are made by Gulf and have no cracks. I put air in them today and no leaks. There are no cracks between the treads or on the sidewalls. How long do tires last? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted September 4, 2016 Share Posted September 4, 2016 (edited) Pictures please -- this car sounds incredible! If it were mine, I would "first, do no harm". Go through a methodical recommissioning of the car's various systems (engine,brakes, cooling, steering/suspension,etc.) beginning with an inspection to identify the components which require replacement or rebuilding so that you can build a parts list. Since this car appears to be so original and so loved by its original owner, do whatever you can to keep it that way. Careful cleaning and restoration of the original finishes should yield terrific results. Anyone can tear-down a car to its bones and refinish/restore to 'as-new', however, much rarer is a car such as yours which is really just as it was built -- because it hasn't been molested. Paint cracks/checks. minor chrome pitting, rubber cracks, etc. only reinforce the honesty of the car. This sounds like the type of vehicle that should be thoroughly photographed and inspected to document the way that these cars were built for reference by others whose cars are nice, but not nice enough to leave alone without some degree of restoration. My dream would be to find such a car some day -- congratulations and enjoy this car for what it is! Oh, and as nice as those tires look, I would not recommend driving on them given their age (not more than 30 mph)! But -- I would definitely put them on the car once at the show/meet and use them for display purposes. Edited September 4, 2016 by EmTee addition (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GARY F Posted September 4, 2016 Share Posted September 4, 2016 I agree with EmTee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
56Chief Posted September 5, 2016 Author Share Posted September 5, 2016 Thank you both for reaffirming what I believe is the right thing to do. Here are some photos to give a sense of what condition this car is in. The photo you see in a cement block garage is where it sat covered up since early 70's. The photo of the car in the street is when it saw first daylight and going on to the flatbed. Photos in the finished garage is my home where I keep it as I formulate a plan. The trunk photo is just how I found it when I opened it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
56Chief Posted September 5, 2016 Author Share Posted September 5, 2016 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 That thing is a time machine! The paint in the trunk and the interior (dash, wheel, headliner) are ridiculous! What a gem! Once it's all cleaned-up, this car will be killer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
56Chief Posted September 5, 2016 Author Share Posted September 5, 2016 I am still in awe at the fact the so called "barn finds" do exist. I've only seen examples on TV with American Pickers or occasionally on line. Would you clean up the chrome with 000 steel wool? also, I know nothing about the transmissions in this vintage auto. I did bore scope the cylinders and there was no rust inside. I have WD40 sprayed in each and letting them soak for a week or so before I hand turn the engine over. I'll take some photo's of under the hood. It too is amazing with the firewall being clean and having the factory crayon marks all over it. The only items missing are drivers mirror, wiper arms and the battery. I spotted them all on a shelf in the former owners garage on Saturday when I went after the tires and rims. His garage is a true case of hoarding with stuff stacked at least 4 feet hi. When she starts cleaning out the garage in the coming weeks I will be able to obtain those items. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kornkurt Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 (edited) Looks like a nice car, however the seats are not original. That black vinyl is not correct. Also, Gulf tires were never original equipment tires. Looks like a rare find, but not quite as original as it appears. Also, please look at the style number on the firewall and let us know if it is a 56-2737 or a 56-2737D. Edited September 5, 2016 by Kornkurt (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
56Chief Posted September 5, 2016 Author Share Posted September 5, 2016 Good information. thank you! The style number on the firewall is 56-2737D. The seat vinyl could they be covers? Both front and back have the same color. They have the cord edging that goes around it as if they are a production type of cover. The carpet I'm guessing is original as it has the surging that is in tack and it matches what is in the trunk. On the tires, that adds up with there being a lot of tread remaining. What does the style number tell us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
56Chief Posted September 5, 2016 Author Share Posted September 5, 2016 You nailed it KornKurt. They are dark blue covers. The original covers are underneath as I pulled back on the vinyl. From what I see the originals look great. I will pull the covers off completely to see what's underneath altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
56Chief Posted September 5, 2016 Author Share Posted September 5, 2016 Thank you again for pointing out the seat covers were not original. Here is what I have found after removing the front seat covers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kornkurt Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 In 1956 Pontiac made the Star Chief which was the top of the line, then they made the Chieftain 860 and the Chieftain 870. The 860 was pretty bare bones and the 870 which yours is had more chrome and deluxe features like the Deluxe steering wheel and the hooded tail light bezels the same as the Star Chief. The D after the style number means it is an 870. You should rebuild the fuel pump with today's materials that are not affected by ethanol. I have these kits available for $69.50. Also, I would recommend joining POCI, the national Pontiac club. They have a great monthly magazine, many local chapters, tech advisors etc. Bring this car back to life and you can drive it anywhere with no problem keeping up with the traffic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 I was hoping those dark covers were just seat covers. That's perfectly in-line with the original owner's MO! People with similar cars would love to see those factory assembly line chalk marks and over/under spray captured in photos. I concur with Kornkurt -- POCI is a wealth of information and it sounds like in your case this will be a two-way exchange for sure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kornkurt Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 .My '56 still has the grease pencil writing on the firewall also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GARY F Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 You are a real winner with that find. as for the chrome I use 0000 steel wool with liquid polish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
56Chief Posted September 6, 2016 Author Share Posted September 6, 2016 Thank you gentlemen for your knowledge and suggestions. I will join the POCI to continue this journey unfolding. Kornkurt your 56 Pontiac is absolutely beautiful. Thank you for sharing that photo! Regarding the fuel pump, I would like to purchase the kit from you. Just let me know how to do that. Also, is there a carburetor kit out there that you recommend? I purchased 0000 steel wool and plan to start working on the bumpers tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 On 9/4/2016 at 9:43 PM, 56Chief said: ... His garage is a true case of hoarding with stuff stacked at least 4 feet hi. When she starts cleaning out the garage in the coming weeks I will be able to obtain those items. When you go back to collect the remaining pieces be sure to comb through the garage to the best of your ability. Better to find the original pieces (that you've already bought) than to have to find them elsewhere later. Also, ask about any documentation that may be available (e.g.. service records, receipts, registration papers, etc.), including those oil change stickers in the door jamb. If the family has any old photos of the car they'd be willing to give you (or allow to have scanned) that would be great -- anything that helps 'tell the story' of the car. My '64 GP was bought new by a shoemaker in NYC. In addition to the folder of stuff I got from the 2nd owner is what appears to be a wooden pattern heel for a shoe that is in the console storage compartment. The 2nd owner that I bought the car from found it there and told me that "it belongs with the car" and I agree -- it's going to remain there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
56Chief Posted September 6, 2016 Author Share Posted September 6, 2016 What you describe as the known history of a car is exciting to myself. Those personal effects like the wooden pattern heel kept as a personal effect of the owner gives your car that much more character or the fact you can trace it back to the original owner. I like your idea of asking the surviving wife for any documentation. I'd guess somewhere in this overpacked garage there is a box or folder with all those receipts and possibly manuals. What is even more ironic, my uncle who is a retired state farm agent insured the car up to the day it was parked. The certificate is in the glove box and when I brought it up to his wife, she said they started their policies with him in the early 1950's. I too am a SF agent and put antique coverage on the car. My family insured the car since day one and continues to do so today. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 I agree, the car's history is really part of the car. I have a letter in the glove box of my Riviera that the person I bought the car from says was there when he bought it, purportedly written by the wife of the original owner. Its going to stay with that car as well, even though I haven't gone back to trace the line of ownership (yet, anyway). Since you can still talk to the surviving spouse, it certainly can't hurt to ask and I would think it would reinforce the feeling that the car has gone to a good home! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poci1957 Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 As a new 1950s Pontiac owner you are fortunate to so quickly meet Kornkurt who is one of the most experienced parts people in the Pontiac world (Hi Kurt!) You should immediately go to www.pontiacsafari.com for a gold mine of manuals, articles, and photos all generously posted for free(!) by a friend of mine who is the POCI 1956 Technical Advisor. I second EmTee's credo to "do no harm" and proceed carefully without damaging anything while you clean and preserve the car. The brown pattern rugs are not original but if there is carpet or a mat underneath it may be, post a good photo. The reddish-brown trunk mat IS original, carefully preserve it. ESPECIALLY BE VERY CAREFUL with the blue plastic shrouds on the sides of the drivers seat. They are very thin and fragile, impossible to find and yours are as good as originals get, it might be worth removing them for safekeeping while you work on the car. The old Gulf tires are not original or valuable except as a display curiosity, as EmTee said they are OK to drive around the block but should be replaced before driving at speed. Your originals were 7.10 x 15 in black or with about a 2 1/2" whitewall, probably BF Goodrich or US Royal. You can buy authentic reproduction bias ply tires or new wide whitewall radials from www.cokertire.com . The jack in the trunk appears original (also hard to find) and hopefully you found the jack base and spare tire too. Your wheel covers are also original. The automatic transmission was robust (you can use Dextron III fluid) and parts are easily available by mail, although a local rebuilder will likely be hard to find if needed. Get an owners manual and factory service manual, both readily available as reproductions at www.amesperf.com and www.pontiacparts.net and other sources. Good luck and post any questions here, we are always happy to help, Todd Crews POCI 1957 Technical Advisor 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 I'll betcha that like the seat covers, that brown, patterned rug is covering the original carpet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poci1957 Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 1 hour ago, EmTee said: I'll betcha that like the seat covers, that brown, patterned rug is covering the original carpet! I bet it is too and if it is in good shape that is a real rarity. As are those seat skirts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
56Chief Posted September 9, 2016 Author Share Posted September 9, 2016 The carpet is indeed covering the original flooring type mat. it is like new front and back. I took a few photos as I removed the covers off the back seats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poci1957 Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 Outstanding looking seat. Show us the flooring too when possible, thanks. Ps--be careful working around those plastic seat skirts, taking them off may be a good idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kornkurt Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 Fuel pump kit, call Kurt 641-648-9086 Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
56Chief Posted September 13, 2016 Author Share Posted September 13, 2016 Thank you sir. I will call you tomorrow to order. On another note, do you know where I can purchase two brake cylinder pistons 15/16 p/n 1409124 and four each at 1 and 1/16 p/n 1409125? I am rebuilding the brake cylinders and the pistons are corroded. the cylinders are in great shape with no pitting inside. I polished them up using a small hone and all that is needed are pistons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
56Chief Posted April 10, 2017 Author Share Posted April 10, 2017 its been seven months since updating progress on the Chieftain. Progress has been slow and selective on specific areas. I've rebuilt all the brake cylinders , had the drums turned to clean up the surface rust, and was able to continue in use the original drum pads since they have half life left. I found an original OEM muffler to replace the one on the car (it is split at the seam). From the original owner, I found the owners manual, mirror, wipers, and original spare tire along with the car's ID card showing on it punch marks on the model and options(never seen one before). I purchased a carb rebuild kit and need to call Kurt for the Fuel pump kit. Now that warmer weather here in southwest Michigan has arrived, I plan to take the steps to prepare the engine for starting. (hope to have this done my May 1st. Any suggestions on how to pre-oil the engine? also, the carburetor has never been off and still has bright cad plating on it. Can that look be kept once disassembled, cleaned and rebuilt? Should I change out the transmission fluid and rear end gear oil? Thank You! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
56Chief Posted April 11, 2017 Author Share Posted April 11, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontiacfarmer Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 nice <3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 (edited) Thanks for the update - sounds like you're focused on the right things. I'd pull the plugs and add a little Marvel Mystery Oil (or even plain engine oil) to each cylinder and spin the engine by hand to spread it, then let it sit while you address the fuel system. Given the carb is as nice outside as you say, I'd hesitate to pull it and dump it into a bucket of carb cleaner. I think if it were me I would pull the top off and take a look inside first. If it looks clean, I'd fill the bowl with carb cleaner and let it sit. I'd come back later and dry it out then add some gasoline and put it back together. If it looks crusty, I'd remove it and disassemble the big pieces and clean them by hand and blow-out with compressed air. If the accelerator pump is leather I'd soak it in gasoline and re-use it. I would probably pull the distributor (after marking the timing orientation) so I could look it over on the bench. Clean the points and check the shaft turns freely and bushings aren't shot. Oil the shaft and reinstall the distributor. Check the condition of the cap, rotor, plugs and wires. Anything oily (plugs) or green (ignition) should be replaced. Either hook up an external fuel supply, or drop the tank and clean it out before attempting to run the engine. Blow out the fuel (hard) line and replace rubber ones (ethanol will kill old ones). When ready, spin the engine with the starter (plugs removed) until you confirm oil pressure. Then re-install plugs. I wouldn't change transmission fluid yet, just check the level and add some Dexron III if needed. I'll bet it fires right up! Edited April 15, 2017 by EmTee typo (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
56Chief Posted August 6, 2017 Author Share Posted August 6, 2017 We are ready to breathe life into sleeping beauty. Thank you EmTee for a thorough list to follow. Yesterday we put the battery in and applied power for the first time since 1972. Amazingly all the lights, turn signals, radio worked. We filled her with Prestone and filled her with 10w30. Oiled the cylinders well and hand turned the crank with plugs out. Next hit the starter and allowed the oil pressure to come up. It did so in short order. I installed new plugs and gave the carb a small amount of fuel. We cranked her over and good sounding even compression on all cylinders. It would not fire though. I pulled the coil and ohmed it out finding the secondary is not in range of the limits. Installed a new coil and tried again. No spark. Installed a new condenser. No spark. I have 12 volts on + side. I removed the resistor and cleaned contacts. It looks good. Any advice on the next steps??? It is sooo close:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1956322 Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 How dirty is the cap and rotor.. Pretty sure you mentioned it but I'll mention again.. File the points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
56Chief Posted August 7, 2017 Author Share Posted August 7, 2017 Good suggestion. I will file them. I cleaned the rotor and polished the tip with 2000 grit. The cap I cleaned each contact point. Is it possible to ohm out the coil wire to see if it is bad? I ordered a new GM rotor cap and resistor since they are original from 56. I figure it is something simple I'm just not seeing. Thank you for offering your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1956322 Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 Sure u can ohm out the coil wire.. Unlikely for it to be bad.. My money is on the points.. If they haven't been touched since being parked they'll be bad in the sense of having a film on the contacts.. Or rusted.. Filing them when probably get it to spark for you but I'd be replacing them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
56Chief Posted August 7, 2017 Author Share Posted August 7, 2017 I just ordered a new set of correct nos points on eBay. I dusted off my dwell meter and will be waiting for them to arrive. Thank you for confirming what is the next step. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 I agree - points could be the issue. Try filing them or replace. Did you verify voltage at the + terminal of the coil with the key in 'run' position? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
56Chief Posted August 9, 2017 Author Share Posted August 9, 2017 I do have battery voltage of 14 at the + terminal on the coil with the ignition on. I hope it is the points also. I should have the new set Thursday. I posted pictures of the carburetor when I took it apart. Overall it looked very good. There was a little crud in the bottom of the float chamber but that was it. I had to free up the butterfly shaft on the bottom of the carb; however that only took an hour after soaking with penetrating oil. The Fuel pump is leather like you said and I soaked it leaded fuel before I put it back together. The needle was something I've never seen before. It has a black rubber I'm guessing face that seals up against the seat. Not pointed with a rubber tip. I resused it because it still was plyable and in great shape. I soaked the bowl with carb cleaner and it came out looking new. Something else interesting, the fuel tank was full of what I would guess as fuel with heavy stabilizer in it. I drained the tank into three five gallon buckets and it is perfectly clear with a solid red tint. It smells like white gas but I have no definite idea what the material is. The tank is spotless inside so the chemical did its job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
56Chief Posted August 10, 2017 Author Share Posted August 10, 2017 The new points and rotor cap arrived. I installed them and fueled it up with 93 octane with lead additive. Here is what happened. See the video attached. IMG_3570.MOV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1956322 Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 For some reason your video won't play for me.. So what happened?!! Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1956322 Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 Got it to play... Awesome!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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