Ron Green Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 Here are a few pictures of the ongoing restoration. It has turned into a much harder project than I anticipated, and allotted time for. Figured it would be a piece of cake considering the other vehicles that I restored...............wrong! Currently at a little over 1,000 hours plus way to many $ (as is always the case). It is entered in the Gettysburg spring meet however it may not make it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Green Posted April 24, 2009 Author Share Posted April 24, 2009 It had to be painted twice as for some strange reason it fish-eyed real bad from the last coat of clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Green Posted April 24, 2009 Author Share Posted April 24, 2009 Never ending ongoing assembly and detail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Green Posted April 24, 2009 Author Share Posted April 24, 2009 And more. hopefully wiring will be all but complete this weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Wolk Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 Great project. Ever see the movie, "The Money Pit"? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 Mr. Blandings Builds His Dream House (1948) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Green Posted April 27, 2009 Author Share Posted April 27, 2009 Dash before, during and after. Or as I like to say:One wire hook up , 2 wire screw up, 3 wire *%#@ up, 4 wire drag up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Green Posted April 27, 2009 Author Share Posted April 27, 2009 Fresh juice. Eight 6 volt batteries for 12 / 24 / 48 volt speeds at 38 MPH max. A neck wrenching 3.5 HP. Also a picture of the main forward /reverse contactor, speed contactor and solenoid, or as the wife say "that clicky thing". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Green Posted April 27, 2009 Author Share Posted April 27, 2009 In trim mode. It is somewhat unusual to find one of these with the correct bumpers which were made from the previous owner, however they had to be completely redone as they were in bad shape. Re-popped correct decals and carpet were also installed over the past weekend. Hopefully vinyl top and head-liner this evening. Hoping to throw the juice to it next weekend however I need to rebuild the contactor as I broke a 3 cent part cleaning the points. Purchased a new electrical rated fire extinguisher this morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 Rides? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Wolk Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ron Green</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Purchased a new electrical rated fire extinguisher this morning. </div></div>Good thinking. Great project! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talarico8447 Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 Nice work! I'd rather be driving your citicar then these smart cars I see in my town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Richard D Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 Real nice work. After you get it running you might look into replacing that "clicky thing" with a modern SCR power controller. Much more efficient, stepless speed control and no more clicky noises. Back in the 1970s high power SCRs were very expensive.Regards,Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Green Posted April 29, 2009 Author Share Posted April 29, 2009 I do have a new 650 amp Altrax controller along with a variable speed pot for the accelerator pedal. This will eliminate the troublesome relays, reduce controller heat, eliminate blown fuses, along with making for smooth driving ability. The jerking between the 3 existing miro speed switches (18/24/48 volt) connected to the accelerator pedal will be eliminated. The existing forward / reverse contactor, speed contactor and solenoid will reused. These Altrax controllers are rather expensive, almost the same cost as they were back in the day they were a new factory release for these vehicles. I want to get this thing up and running again, do some tweaking and troubleshooting (always have something amiss), then install the new controller. My wife plans on taking this car when finished and the Altrax will make it much easier for her to drive. She never did like the or jerking action or sound of the "clicky thing" when we drove it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nearchoclatetown Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ron Green</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> She never did like the or jerking action or sound of the "clicky thing" when we drove it. </div></div>Ron, when she said she doesn't like the jerk are you sure she meant the car? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 You just made my day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Green Posted April 30, 2009 Author Share Posted April 30, 2009 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nearchoclatetown</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ron Green</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> </div></div>Ron, when she said she doesn't like the jerk are you sure she meant the car? </div></div>You know the more I think about it, I'm not sure! I'll post some more pictures next week. Carpet, head-liner, vinyl top and most of the decals are now on. Having issues with re-popping the hubcap decals as it is a 4 color done on chrome backing which is chipping somewhat. Scheduled for the weekend are installation of the roll bar padding, completion of the rear wiring (motor / contactor), 48 volt battery charger, battery wiring, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Richard D Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 Hi Ron,I did not realize that you had this car in running condition. How long have you and the Mrs. had it? I remember reading about them in Popular Mechanics, or Popular Science. It did make the cover picture if I remember correctly.Best Regards,Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Green Posted May 10, 2009 Author Share Posted May 10, 2009 Hi Richard, We bought this critter almost a year ago out of Pittsburgh from a friend from the Amphicar club. Though it was running and looked ok it needed a good going over, which made my wife, bother and many friends shake their heads, as they knew what was ahead for the Citicar. I just can’t seem to leave my fingers off something I buy; it needs to come apart. I am currently trying to get this together for the Gettysburg meet. Have more photos to post when I get time. Playing hooky from work tomorrow to install the windows. Projects today include installing the onboard battery charger, connecting the batteries up, wiping down the undercarriage and adjusting / bleeding the brakes. Saturday was spent installing the roll cage padding (what a pain), finishing up the contactor (clicky thing as wife says) wiring and installing the accelerator pedal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nearchoclatetown Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 Ron, if it looks as good as the Amphi it will be first class! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Green Posted May 12, 2009 Author Share Posted May 12, 2009 I try my best.Photo of contactor wires (for motor terminals / relays / solenoid) and rebuilt contactor installed. Looking for someone that can make and install new points onto an existing heavy copper point plate. New ones are unobtainable and existing ones will need attention one day. Sixteen points total between the forward / reverse and speed contactor. When switching over to the Altrax controller (someday) you still need to utilize the points.Also picture of onboard 48-volt Lester battery charger. Wife name cor "Lester" go figure. You can also see the new black artificial grass carpet just like the factory original. To the left of the charger is the accelerator pedal which is connected to the 3 miro switches (pot box) via a rod. These switches control the voltage allowed to the contactor thus the vehicle speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Green Posted May 12, 2009 Author Share Posted May 12, 2009 Pictures of the new vinyl roof (less the molding clips, tonight's project), buffed out original rear window and new custom made front windshield. Was lucky to find the correct and exact window mounting rubber. This pictures also shows the re-popped factory decals. They are made or reflective material so the flash bounced off the decal unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Wolk Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 Great job, very professional.I have lots of silver contacts from circuit breakers and lighting contactors that I've salvaged. What size do you need? They are simply silver-soldered to the copper and filed for a perfect contact patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Green Posted May 12, 2009 Author Share Posted May 12, 2009 I will measure them in the near future however they are in the neighborhood of 7/16 round by 1/8 or 3/16 thick. There will be a fair amount of tolerance acceptable in the replacement contacts as the contactor bridge has plenty of adjustment available. Thanks for the compliment and the offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Wolk Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 Why not resurface the old ones? The contacts don't need to be thick at all. It's more about surface area contact than thickness. The best thing to use is a points file. You resurface both areas at the same time and end up with a perfect mating surface. Back to back sandpaper works well, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Green Posted May 13, 2009 Author Share Posted May 13, 2009 I did sand, file and clean all of them however a few are to the point they are close to being even with the plate, so they are all but gone. A few are like new. This car has a little over 9K miles as it was used at Bucknell Collage by the security department so it has a lot of stop & go cycles. I shifted point sets around where possible keeping them grouped since the forward contacts are used more than the reverse ones. I will try and take a picture of the points this weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Wolk Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 While not an 1/8" thick, a pre-'64 quarter could be reshaped for your use. If you need 1/8" you can use an old silver dollar that the date's worn off of. Coins of that era were 90% silver and would make good contacts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Green Posted May 13, 2009 Author Share Posted May 13, 2009 Here is a picture of a well used contactor that I downloaded from the internet. On the tall tower to the right, on the top, you will see 2 ribbed shaped points (left one is easier to see). This has a point attached to it along with a point attached to a plate directly above it. Unsure how I would attach a new point to these different style mating surfaces? Possibly drill a hole smaller than the new point and braze it in from the back side? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Wolk Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 I would think that silver solder would be the better application. If I'm understanding the contactor correctly the grooved parts are actually the back of the contact mounting point. They are made of copper. I see a raised circle above it. That appears to be the upper silver contact that's soldered to its copper base. It's most likely connected to its copper base with silver solder. The top of the grooved part would have the opposing silver contact. You simply heat the assembly cherry red and push the contact off of its mount. They normally stay stuck to the copper base until you push them. Or, you can simoly grind it flat and solder another contact to it.I wouldn't use brazing rod as it's mostly copper and has a higher melting temperature. You could melt the base before the brazing rod melted.Those contacts don't appear to be thicker than a quarter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Wolk Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 I have 8 contacts that are exactly 1/2" in diameter. A silver dime would be 11/16" in diameter. If you don't have any a coin shop would sell you worn coins for 2-3 times face value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Green Posted May 13, 2009 Author Share Posted May 13, 2009 Thanks for the input. You are correct silver solder would be better than brazing. This is good to know as I can't weld or braze worth a $#%. I may have some silver dimes here somewhere. There is rumor that 2 of these critters are sitting in a junkyard an hour from here so I may make a trip and buy up their contactors if there in ok shape. I may also shake down some electrical friends that are hoarding some silver contacts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Wolk Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 If I understand that assembly correctly the tall device is the reversing contactor and the other the power contactor, correct? How is speed controlled? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersix Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ron Green</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Pictures of the new vinyl roof (less the molding clips, tonight's project), buffed out original rear window and new custom made front windshield. Was lucky to find the correct and exact window mounting rubber. This pictures also shows the re-popped factory decals. They are made or reflective material so the flash bounced off the decal unfortunately. </div></div> This is probably a stupid question but what is under the vinyl top. Sheet metal of the body or is it similar to the insert tops of the 30's? It's difficult for me to see the roof before the vinyl top was installed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Green Posted May 14, 2009 Author Share Posted May 14, 2009 Barry, the tall contactor is forward / reverse (up reverse & down forward). Factory originally had them operating the other way but found there was less wear going forward if coil pulled down. The other contactor in called the speed controller (SP-1). The 8 batteries are wired in parallel and in series and divided into two packs of four, providing 24 volts in each pack. The car uses 24 volts from each pack in parallel for the first two speeds and 48 volts in series for the top speed. The speeds are changed by changing the voltage through the use of an accelerator's three micro switches. As the accelerator is depressed, current will flow from the two packs of batteries wired in parallel which produce 24 volts. In the first speed the current passes through a nichrome ribbon resister (under the car in rear) which cuts the amperage load and permits a fairly smooth take off. The first position has a top speed of 11 mph. Depressing the accelerator further will activate a solenoid in the contactor box which bypasses the resistor and increases the speed 23 mph. The car remains in a parallel circuit mode using 24 volts from each pack of batteries. The third speed changes the current from 24 volts in a parallel circuit to 48 volts in a series circuit. To reverse the car a toggle switch on the dash is used to change the current flow to the opposite direction.Here is a picture of the point set up I pulled from the internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Wolk Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 You can see from those photos that the contacts are simply silver soldered in place. You'll need the heat of a mapp-gas or acetylene torch to dislodge and re-solder the contacts.Interesting arrangement for speed control. No range between settings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Green Posted May 14, 2009 Author Share Posted May 14, 2009 Larry there are no dumb questions. The entire body including the top is made out of a material called "Cycolac", which is an extremely thin type of plastic (not fiberglass). It will crack simply by looking at the Citicar the wrong way. They have also been known to crack at the windshield pillars if loading onto a trailer. SSince the vehicle is riveted together stress cracks tend to show up. I countered this by drilling the rivet holes a whisker larger to allow for a tiny amount of play and expansion (not loose though). Riveting this vehicle together was like building an experimental airplane. Even the taillight chrome housing, rocker moldings, etc were riveted. I had to buy a pneumatic rivet gun as my right hand was starting to look like Hulk Hogans. I beefed up the areas prone to cracking with fiberglass underneath prior to painting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Green Posted May 14, 2009 Author Share Posted May 14, 2009 No range between speeds and it is jerky at best, even though the owners manual says you will become an expert at controlling these miro switches. At the end of production they came out with a different style of controller that eliminated these switches and provided for a variable type speed control. I have this set up but requires a total rewire of everything that controls the motor. I will wait to work the bugs out of everything than tear this portion apart and redo. This will drive the wife nuts as she is ready to drive this thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Wolk Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 I used an air impact with a proper tip from Airparts set on low pressure. Worked great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Green Posted May 26, 2009 Author Share Posted May 26, 2009 Picture of the roll bar padding. What a royal pain in the a$$ this was to find, custom cut, figure out the right glue to use, etc. Used pictures of the original installation to install the new. Also a picture of the seat. The bottom had to be custom made and matches the original and the seat backs were in decent shape and reused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Green Posted May 26, 2009 Author Share Posted May 26, 2009 Picture of the refinished steering wheel which was in good condition. Only needed scuffed and painted. Also a picture of the contactor (clickly thing) cover which are fairly rare as many times they got tossed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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