Guest Stevie_G Posted December 25, 2006 Share Posted December 25, 2006 This has been covered before on the mail list but I thought I would introduce the topic over here.What master cylinder has been used?The parts house guy says the difference in 67-68 Riv master cylinders is the size of the line nut but, I seem to remember somethng about a difference in Brake Booster manufacture affecting the master cylinder used.I have a few people saying that a proportioning valve is not needed however, all the late sixties trucks and muscle cars I've converted over to disc had proportioning valves from the factory with four wheel drum brakes.I'm leaning towards the proportioning valve from an A-body if I can't find one from a full size car.How much difference is there between a P/U prop valve and a car Prop valve? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 Stevie,You are correct; there were two different brake boosters which came on the first generation Rivieras. You could either have a Bendix or a Delco/Morraine. The brake lines are the same, the difference is in the lenght and diameter of the push rod which comes off the brake pedal. The later dual master cylinders will match unit for unit i.e. Bendix to Bendix - Morraine to Morraine. There's a great tech article on the ROA website by Jim Cannon that has part numbers, measured drawings, etc. to help you make the conversion. It's a good safety measure.Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96roadmaster Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 Ed, can we get a link to that writeup? My '64 Riviera is at the shop right now awaiting this conversion, but I can't find any information about it anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim63riv Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 Hi!The link is at www.rivowners.org and the tech tip article is in the "members only" section. You will need a current(?) Riview for the login and password to access this section. The article details out a 63 retrofit, but a 64-65 is easier as you don't have to plumb in a new hydralic brake switch like you do on a 63. I did this swap on my Blue 63 about 3 years ago now and it is very straight forward. Get a 67 Riv DRUM BRAKE master cylinder. The booster push rod is adjustable, but mine fit just fine as it was. The original 63 master cylinder uses an o-ring to seal the booster vacuum at the master cylinder, make sure you use something to seal this up or you won't have power brake assist. You will need a brass T-fitting from a 67-70 Riv or full size Buick to split the front lines, other GM cars may fit as well. I did not use a proportioning valve but I could install one if I felt it was needed; an adjustable aftermarket one would be my first choice, a used one from a 67-70 Riv with drum brakes would be my second choice. This is an excellent time to overhaul or replace the wheel cylinders and replace the rubber hoses and steel lines too. Carefully bleed the brakes, check for leaks and take a test drive! I started at 8:00 Am and was done and roadtesting by 2:30 PM the same day.Take Care,Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 Depending on what your final outcome is, you might want to look into one of the disk brake conversions for the front. Check out the one from Scarebird www.scarebird.com for their adapters. They take the rotors and calipers from a 71 - 76 Riviera and everything bolts to the original spindle.Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96roadmaster Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 Thank you Tim for the ideas. It definitely gives me the courage since it sounds easy enough. I'm also having a mechanic friend add a helping hand as well. I'm also having everything replaced in thw whole system, since the car was in storage for a number of years and I don't intend to take chances with this beauty.RivNut, I thought long and hard if I want to go with the disc brake conversion, but I'm very reluctant to part with the famous Buick aluminum finned drums. I know I can get better performance from the discs, but I'm trying to keep the car visually original. My only deviation will be the master cylinder, and that's just in the name of safety.I'll post pictures when we convert it in a couple weeks! <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stevie_G Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 How do you identify the Bendix vs Delco?Is the name on it or is it the part number.The parts guys I'm working with only know that "One has a bigger nut than the other on the brake lines". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96roadmaster Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 I just ran into the same problem. My car is believed to have the original master and booster, yet I could not find any markings on either of them to indicate if I have a Delco-Morraine or Bendix.If it's hard to explain, I can take a picture and post it here.Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bc65riv Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 ditto on the question of how to identify whether it is a bendix or delco/morain booster on a 65? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_kbm Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 I had the same situation on a 65 Cadillac. I was told the booster on the bendix was black and the booster on the delco was silver. The picture of the master cylinder was also identifiable in the shop manual. The delco had a bracket and a bolt holding the top on and the bendix had a a washer and a bolt holding the top on. I don't know if this is the same on a Buick.kbm345 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 I got the same basic information some time ago about the colors being different. I understood that the original Bendix were painted black and the Delco-Moraine units were anodized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96roadmaster Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 I couldn't find anything on my car showing Delco or Bendix, so I just went ahead and ordered the Bendix (50% chance is good, right?). I should have it by the end of this week, and I'll compare it to the one in the car. I'll report back my findings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stevie_G Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Just to follow up, we ordered the dual master based on the length of the shoulder that goes into the booster and it worked out fine.Dad is cruising with his dual master and feeling much better about life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Stevie,Great to hear from you that everything worked out well and your dad is enjoying his ride again. I'm glad to hear that you decided to keep the drum brakes. It's also nice to hear from someone AFTER they've sought advice and let everyone know that the information they recieved was of some value. So many time you give advice but you're left in the dark as to whether or not the outcome was successful.Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkbuick75 Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 Had the same issue in June when the master cyl on my 69 started getting mushy, 1 week before our scheduled leave for ROA Nats this year in Galena--- Napa does carry both master cyls-- probably will have to order- 2-3 days. Yes, the Delco master is silver- once you get the old master off the booster and out of your way you can read the "Delco Moraine" name stamped vertically into the face of the booster-- the writing is located alongside the left side of the master (closest to the engine). I "guessed" on the first master I ordered @ NAPA because when I opened the hood the booster was silver, and not the "goldish" anodized color. Got home after 2 day wait for part and took everthing apart and to my dismay found /saw the "Delco" name after I took off the old master. Went back to NAPA and re-oredered the correct one. However, I did panick that he New order would not come in time. I checked a few of the other chain parts stores and was lucky enough to find AutoZone had one in stock. Hard to believe, but the master cyl interchanges with a late model (96-98??) Honda. Auto Zone was also half the price of NAPA. I did keep the new Reman from NAPA as a spare, just because I never heard of the reman co that was on the box from AuoZone. Laying the 2 boosters side by side (Delco & Bendix) they look identical. So the difference must be internal in the bore sizing or rod travel. (My Guess). So far, so good- no problems to report and just returned from BCA Nats in Flint with car last week. Still stopping!!! Hope this info is of help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cannon Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 I do not have time to repeat the entire conversion instructions here. But I will tell you that the difference between the master cylinders is the depth of the hole in the master cylinder piston that the push rod goes down into. One is about 1/4 inch deep and the other is about 1 inch deep. Take your existing MC off and see how deep the indentation in the piston is. Then get the new dual MC that has the same depth indentation. Tube nut size is not important. (Get a new parts guy -- the one you have is a moron.)As Ed mentioned, you must put on the big (square cross section) o-ring on the neck of the MC before installing into booster or you will have no boost. This is the most common error made. If you can not find a new one, carefully move your old one over to the new MC.Also connect front port on MC to front wheels and rear port to rear wheels. Do not reverse them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now