CRCAIN Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 The steering wheel on my 1949 Packard 2382 has an excessive amount of free play. This can be quite disconcerting with any irregularity of the road surface as the front wheels tend to wander and veer suddenly to the side. The front suspension has been overhauled with new king pins, upper and lower pins and bushings. The linkage does seem tight with no free play when the front wheels are moved with the car on a lift. My mechanic says the problem is in the "steering box" (gear?). Does this sound possible or likely? If so, can it be corrected by adjustment or is an overhaul likely? Aside from the steering wander the car drives great. Any help/suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Thanks,Charlie CainTexas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbdoc Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 Charlie,Sounds like you need to send that steering gear out to Steer & Gear in Columbus, OH and have it overhauled. Adjusting the gear and installing radial tires will help somewhat, but driving it will still be a challenge -- especially in the rain!Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFranklin Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 Find a shop manual and see if there is any adjustment available to mitigate the slop. My Plymouth did the same and I was able to adjust it out. Also recheck the alignment to make sure there is some toe-in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest De Soto Frank Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 You can check the steering box for excessive play by lightly turning the steering wheel in one direction (use a finger tip) until you meet resistance, then turn it back the other way until you meet resistance, noting how much the wheel turns; if there is more than two inches of wheel travel at the rim, that is excessive play...Now get a helper to watch the pitman arm on the bottom of the steering box, and again turn the steering wheel between the two points where it meets resistance: if the pitman arm does not show signs of movement until the steering wheel meets resistance, or the pitman shaft looks like it's wobbling in its bearing, then the wear is in the steering gear itself... if the steering gear leaks lubricant at the pitman shaft, that is an indication of a worn box...The relay-rod pictured in my '35-'49 MoToR's manual shows that it has the old-style ball & seat joints, with a screw-type end-plug: make sure the balls are not worn egg-shaped, the springs are not broken and that the plugs are adjusted correctly ( screwed-in tight, then backed-off just until the cotter pin can be installed)...Also. double-check the tire pressures up front, and condition of the tires...I would not tweak any adjustments on the steering box itself unless you're deaad sure that's where the slop is, and know the recommended adjustment proceedure: incorrect adjustment can cause binding/accelerated wear to the steering box...Use the same "helper method" to look for any lost motion at the relay rod, idler arm, tie rods...Generally speaking, bias ply tires are more prone to "react" to tar-strips and other variations in the road surface, but if the car suddenly "heels over", that suggests excessive play somewhere...Does the car track straight until the tires hit uneven pavement ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
52deluxe Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 oh my 52 packard there is a adjustment on the steering box to take up slack. i forget exactly where it is but its 2 nuts on the same shaft, losen one so you can turn the other. check your shop manual if you dont have one ill try finding mine or my old motors manual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrbartlett Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 I had excess play in a Ross steering gear and took it to place that specialized in rebuilding truck steering boxes. I assumed the play was in the gears themselves, but that wasn't the case. They used a welding process to build up the pitman arm shaft and then turned it down to factory specs and pressed a new bushing into the box itself. While at it they cut a groove in the bushing to hold a rubber o-ring, so I can now run oil in the box instead of heavy grease. What a difference. The play is gone and the wheel is easy to turn.They said that a worn pitman arm shaft and bushing will give the wheel excess play, while at the same time making it hard to turn.In addition, on my box the steering shaft ball bearings ride in an adjustable race; yours may be the same. I replaced the steel balls and had the races cleaned up on a lathe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRCAIN Posted September 7, 2006 Author Share Posted September 7, 2006 Thanks to everyone for your help. I will check out the things you have suggested. The Packard does have bias ply tires, but I don't think that is the problem. I have a '48 Buick also with bias tires and I don't experience the wander and veering on uneven pavement.Yes Frank, the car does track OK on smoothg pavement, altho with very minor steering wheel pressure there is a great deal of slop in st. wheel. Other than that, it is a very nice car. I will endeavor to get the problem corrected, because at times it feels downright unsafe. Thanks again to all.Charlie Cain49 Packard48 Buick56 MGA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest De Soto Frank Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 I'm glad to hear you're concerned about it and want to make it safe !When I first got my '48 New Yorker back on the road, it had nearly 1/2 revolution play on the steering wheel... <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />Turns out there are rubber insulator bushings in the two-piece pitman arm that had disintegrated... I made my own replacements at that time, but boy what an improvement !!!Good luck ! <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest juandigital Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 CRCAIN, My 51 Packard 200 has the same issue right now. Im wondering have you figured out the problem yet? Everything feels tight up front, I have adjusted toe, camber and now I am experimenting with caster. As for the the steering box, I too thought perhaps I had excessive play or lash in the gears. packardinfo.com forum has the orginal manuals online (free). I followed the manufactures procedure for for tightening everything up however the problem is still there. There wasnt much play to begin with. I also changed the kingpins. I am also running bias tires. On the flat smooth road its fine, but any dips or bumps and it gets real squirrely, and its more of a side to side than up and down motion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 Cars of that era commonly had 3 or 4 inches of play at the steering wheel. Partly because the wheel was so large in diameter, partly because of the way they were built.If you adjust the steering box follow the factory manual exactly. I have had the sad experience of adjusting out free play in an old steering box, then the box wore out in about 2 months.You should also check the bolts that hold the box to the frame, if they work loose your steering will be sloppy.Did you get an alignment and fill your shocks with jack oil? These 2 things can transform your Packard's ride and steering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest juandigital Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 I have replaced the front shocks with new. For me its not so much as play in the steering, as like I said, that has been removed. Everything feels tight when the car is on jacks. Its just when I drive it down the road, and I hit a bump or a rut in the road, the wheel jerks and changes direction causing me to constantly correct. Im going to make a few more adjustments to the caster and see what happens. Could it be the bias tires are really that squirrelly? I love the look of bias but man, its scary to drive! I have swapped front and rear wheels too, no difference. Ive also checked the rear end while on jacks, nothing seems loose. Thanks for your help!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jim_Edwards Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 Bushings, bushings, bushings! And maybe a tie rod end or two! Before assuming a steering box issue eliminate the more common reasons for steering slop.Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest juandigital Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 For the most part, I have checked the bushings. While the preload was off the suspension, I checked the upper and lower control arms for and lateral movement. Everything felt tight. As for the tie rods, is it possible that they would feel tight with the car jacked up but actually be bad? Is your car hard to control with bias tires? Thanks again for help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jim_Edwards Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 (edited) For the most part, I have checked the bushings. While the preload was off the suspension, I checked the upper and lower control arms for and lateral movement. Everything felt tight. As for the tie rods, is it possible that they would feel tight with the car jacked up but actually be bad? Is your car hard to control with bias tires? Thanks again for help.If properly inflated for the vehicle bias ply tires should not be a factor. I have vintage cars with both bias ply and radial tires and on dry pavement one is about the same as the other most of the time. In the nearly twenty years I was driving before radial tires came to be in this country I never recall bias ply tires creating noticeable slop in steering.Unless you jacked up the front end of the car and got both wheels off the ground it's almost impossible to determine if there is any slop in the upper control arms beyond noticing bushings are cracked and chunks missing from them.I would again recommend you do a close visual examination of all bushings, including sway bar and idler arm bushings if any are hard, cracked, or have a chunk out of them replace. Probably best to just replace them all at once if uncertain about their age. Once rubber bushings have lost resiliency and become hard they can't do their job. If any of the bushings on the car are over ten years old you may assume they pretty much need to be replaced. Not saying you might not have steering box issues, but bad bushings can cause a lot of somewhat elusive problems and there is no point in finding out fixing something like a steering box that didn't need to be fixed didn't eliminate the problem.Might even be a good idea to check the front wheel bearings and races for condition. A bad or improperly tightened bearing can lead one to believe there is something else causing the problem.Jim Edited March 5, 2011 by Jim_Edwards (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen_Dyneto Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 Your 23rd series Packard steering gear box has 2 adjustments for wear. First, jack up the front end and swing the wheel back and forth thru the center point and have someone watch underneath. If the play is translated into an up/down (perpendicular to the steering column) movement of the output (sector) shaft, then an adjustment will correct your problem, assuming the gear box is in good condition. Note that overtightening the adjustment can quickly ruin the steering gear box, so do follow the shop manual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Albert Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 Check the idler arm bushing , see if it will move up and down at all, my packards have had problems with the rubber bushing there, also check the tightness of adjustments at each end of the center link, and the steering box adjustment, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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