Katrina, I have to express my opinion

[Guest F14CRAZY]

Homeland Security my ass. They didn't do sheit quick enough. We're not safe, folks.

Recently, I think on the History Channel, there was another 9-11 documentary. Someone on it said "it's going to take another 9-11"

I don't like people dying but it's probably true.

[Chazzman]

Robert, a little merlot with that steak would be good... I do take note that you care...

Here is an interesting link about New Orlean from the National Geographic Mag.

http://www3.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0410/feature5/index.html

Peace and goodwill ;-)Chas

[Howard]

My exercise was not as interesting as I thought it would have been. I just wanted to see how others would have handled the situation had they been in control of the city, the state, or the Federal government. To be honest, I think I speak for most everyone here by simply saying what happened should not have happened in the USA. I really can't add anything more to this thread. I think we have said all that we can say. Let's hope for the best for the victims and help with a "hand up", not a "hand out". I will "evacutate" this thread by marking the words of George Santayana who warned that those of us who ignore the mistakes of the past will be condemned to relive them. Peace Out.

[Rawja]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If your sentiments are against the decision makers of both major parties as stated, then you did a disservice to your cause by posting the image that appeared to mock one member of one party, in the earlier posts.</div></div>

The problem with the Democrats is that they have failed to stop and in some cases have helped further the evil, destructive aggenda of the cabal that has seized control of our nation, either due to their own corruption or inadequate spine to stand up and fight for the American people.

The Republicans have "outgamed" the Democrats, plain and simple. They have set up a system where they control the public discourse by running often false or misleading stories through the right-wing echo chamber, distorting the facts and distracting the public.

I got hip to this in the mid-nineties (thanks to the internet). If you'll recall back then there were weekly "scandals" surrounding the Clinton Administration being reported on the TV, on Limbaugh, in the press. It seemed incredible to me that anyone could be committing so many "crimes" and misdeeds and yet nothing of substance seemed to happen to them. Of course, the right-wing explanation was that "Slick Willie" was just too crafty to have anything stick, but I dunno it just seemed weird.

Rush was/is in the habit of telling his listeners "don't trust the papers and TV news, they are controlled by liberals, I'll tell you what is going on in the world"

First off, ANYONE who discourages their listeners/viewers from researching or looking at the original source materials on which they are bloviating (regardless of what their political position is) should be regarded with extreme distrust.

As it turns out, the Clintons' various "scandals" were manufactured, invented, fabricated out of whole cloth. "travelgate", "troopergate", "the Clinton's murder spree", the LAX haircut, Hilllary's lesbian affairs, etc. I don't expect you to take my word for it, actually I INSIST you DON'T take my word for it. The source materials are out there and you can look it up yourself. Pick your favorite scandal, and start researching.

Note: I am not denying that Clinton had an affair with Monica Lewinsky, or that he lied under oath regarding it, which was reprehensible.

The Republicans have perpetrated and perpetuated the myth of the "liberal media", which is patently false. They will invent or twist a story, which will then be batted around from right wing media outlet to right wing media outlet, getting embellished as it goes. When the manufactured noise gets loud enough, the mainstream media is forced to report on the "controversy". If the mainstream media fails to report it, it is pointed to as "see, the "Lberal Media" is trying to supress this story" It's a win-win situation for them regardless.

Here's an easy reference source so you can watch the right-wing echo chamber at work as it happens:

www.mediamatters.org

Don't dismiss it as merely left-wing, they allow you to drill down to the original source material and see it for yourself.

For a neutral, non-partisan (though they cover much less) reference source check out: www.factcheck.org

But getting back to Katrina, here's the latest unconscionable act of the President:

By executive order yesterday, President Bush suspended the Davis-Bacon Act of 1931 within the disaster areas.

What's the Davis-Bacon Act? It sets a minimum pay scale for workers on federal contracts by requiring contractors to pay the prevailing or average pay in the region.

In New Orleans the prevailing wage for construction labor is about $9 per hour, according to the Department of Labor. In effect, President Bush is saying that people should be paid less than $9 an hour to rebuild their communities. So, on top of the devastation and lives destroyed by the hurricane, the federal government is now acting to depress the wages of those same people. Now that's EVIL.

[Jibby]

EDBSO: I think that I understand the connection, between the "gun violence", and this thread, now. It's a $1,000,000,000, difference.

Dennis Rodgers: Good for them, now they'll have to pay more, for what would have cost them less. I've heard of these situations before, even up here.

F14: I'm having to agree, because of this. It usually takes a number of fatal accidents at an intersection, and lawsuits against the local, county, or state government, to cause said governement(s), to put in a traffic light, or a green turning arrow.

Chazzman:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A big howdy from the shores of beautiful Lake Martin -- ex-owner of a totalled 90 maroon convertible with a white top. What a beaut! And what a shame to lose a 118K miles/one owner/well-maintained/excellent condition collector's item</div></div>

That blows, hardcore!

Rawja: Well you've come up with some more interesting facts... by the way, that Davis-Bacon Act, removal thingy, is totally jacked up. I guess they're trying to cut the final costs of reconstruction?

[Guest imported_Flash]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <span style="font-style: italic">Or I could be toying with you. </span> I am thinking that some seared red meat with or a Port for desert. Perhaps both would go nicely with the fermented grape. </div></div>

See Robert, one more reason I look forward to your posts. Not only thoughtful and provacative as well.

Of course my take on matters is a bit different. If congress had not spent all those tax dollars on BS, like funding the mating habits of asian snails or some other non-necessity that spineless politicians vote to get money for their constituencies or state, then there would be enough money to pay for the truly worthwhile items like national defense, border control, disaster relief etc.

I do not see the National financial responsibility to take care of those who foolishly choose high risk activities. That is a local matter, then a state matter. Poor choices by locally elected officials should not be the tax burden of the nation. This notion or idea that it is permissable to collect money (taxes)from the total working populace, then distribute it locally for individual needs is counter to my thought process. If New Yorkers paid for New York, and Californians paid for California and Texans paid for Texas and so forth, then we would have a much different social dependency. If you want to live on the coast, then pay the insurance premiums to live there. But don't expect me to pay for your loss, because of your choice. Don't expect me to give up national security or defense money to pay for your evening "view". If you want the view, then cough up the money for it, or move somewhere else.

Recently I watched as a writer was interviewed (forgot his name) who stated that his $250,000 home was re-built twice by FEMA because of damage from the ocean. He built the house there KNOWING that it would eventually be destroyed, however he was gauranteed replacement by FMEA when it happened. It has happened twice and my taxes have gone into rebuilding his home on the ocean twice. Unbelievable. He stated during the interview that if he had to have private insurance, he would not have built there. Duh!!! No sh!t.

I understand the need to help those who can't help themselves. There are numerous charities and religious organizations that specifically do that. Many many people freely donate milions of dollars to these. What I don't understand is how congress can decade after decade mis-use tax funds on pork spending, have a different set of retirement and benefits rules for themselves, have a different withholding structure on wages, and this country's financial shortfall is W's fault. It just don't fly. Hold the people acountable for their own areas, locally first, then state. That is just my view on things.

Oh and leave the 2nd amendment alone.

The above is from a long ago, long haired war protesting, staunch democrat, liberal thinking philosophy reading english literature student. But 50 years and enough real world experiences, have modified my views. I am now very thankful to our service personnel. Make an annual pilgrimage of pennance to Washington DC to pay homage and respect to those fallen and missing. Visit friends names on the VN Memorial Wall. Etc, etc, etc. and am much more conservative in my thinking.

Yes the tradgedy is unfortunate. Yes we will learn from it. However the world's history has many natural disasters where populations were decimated. Some became extinct. Some survived. Some rebuilt. Some left that area for another. It is the way of the world. Prepare or pay. It's about choices.

[Dennis Rodgers]

Dear Flash

Good input, but I must correct you on one thing. By your illustration that was not Port from Portugal but a Scottish Liquer from Scotland,Drambuie a great after dinner drink.

Dennis

[Guest EDBSO]

Today I feel good, really good.

Flash I am starting to love you like a brother. I saw the same show and was left with the same question "What are they thinking" I believe one of the homes regularly destroyed was owned by a leading journalist and he thought it was stupid for the gov't to help him rebuild it again and again and then subsidize (read make you and I pay for)his insurance payments.

There are a great many passionate, caring, intelligent people here.

A great man once said <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I really can't add anything more to this thread. I think we have said all that we can say. Let's hope for the best for the victims and help with a "hand up", not a "hand out". I will "evacutate" this thread by marking the words of George Santayana who warned that those of us who ignore the mistakes of the past will be condemned to relive them. Peace Out. </div></div> Together the future has to be brighter for all. Live long and prosper, peace out. Robert

[Jibby]

Yes Dennis, all Scots alco-mo-hol, is good. I'm Scots, I know.

I don't know that I'm passionate, and caring, but for our military personnel. Others don't care about me, so why should I care about them? Since my relatives, have fought in every war, that this country has been in, I understand, and I am passionate and caring, about our military men, and now, women.

Certain life experiences, make you cold, to feeling, but war always brings emotion to me, regardless of my coldness.

[Machiner 55]

Maybe you'll have to get out your "Krag" and go down there, eh?

[Guest imported_Flash]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Flash I am starting to love you like a brother. I saw the same show and was left with the same question "What are they thinking" I believe one of the homes regularly destroyed was owned by a leading journalist and he thought it was stupid for the gov't to help him rebuild it again and again and then subsidize (read make you and I pay for)his insurance payments.

There are a great many passionate, caring, intelligent people here.

A great man once said <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I really can't add anything more to this thread. I think we have said all that we can say. Let's hope for the best for the victims and help with a "hand up", not a "hand out". I will "evacutate" this thread by marking the words of George Santayana who warned that those of us who ignore the mistakes of the past will be condemned to relive them. Peace Out. </div></div> Together the future has to be brighter for all. Live long and prosper, peace out. Robert </div></div>

Amen to that brother.

to Dennis Rogers, the point that you missed in the Port/Drambuie post/quote was a dinner event whereby Robert (who is an ardent fan of Drambuie) consented to try some Cockburns (pronounced Co-burns) Port. It was that memory that we were alluding to. However, point well taken.

To all, fondess regards.

Flash

[Guest imported_tyrel]

Isn't there an off-topic board where you can bash the leaders you guys elected? Let's talk about Reattas.

[Guest tempest68]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Isn't there an off-topic board where you can bash the leaders you guys elected? Let's talk about Reattas. </div></div>

"I" certainly did NOT elect Dub-ya. It's those darned other 51% of Americans that did.

There are alot of other posts about Reattas here, so just go looking at them. If you dont want to read this thread, just ignore it (I ignore certain posts all the time, simply because I'm just not interested).

Gee, isnt it time to introduce another tax cut for the wealthy to get things going?

I just dont understand how one president is almost impeached simply because he had sex, yet lying about WMD to start a war where our men/women are put in harms way and delaying sending in help for days after a major hurricane while hundreds die is apparently good leadership?

EDBSO...what are the housing prices like up there?

[Jibby]

John,

If you mean Iraq/Afghanistan/Wherever, the military already denied me, because of my eye-site, and my asthma. They won't even give me a desk job, near the area, because I have to pass basic, to get there, and I won't pass basic, in my lifetime.

If you mean down in Louisiana, Alabama, Mississippi, etcetera, I have no reason to shoot people who are upset with their circumstance.

If you mean Cuba, because that quote came from the SpanAm War, I don't think there's any need, for anybody, to go <span style="font-style: italic">there</span> again. There wasn't a need to go there, in the first place.

Yours Aye,

Bill

[Machiner 55]

Since I don't know what a "Krag" is I guess I shouldn't be suggesting that you go somewhere to use it, now should I? My bad. I just thought they needed some civility down the Gulf Coast.

[Reatta Man]

Tempest68,

1. There ARE a few Communist countries left where you don't have to worry about tax cuts or who gets elected. Those decisions are made for you, and hey, the government owns EVERYTHING there--including YOU. Why don't you pick one out and see how much a Priceline one-way ticket costs?

2. If tax cuts are only for the rich 1%, then how come the Federal receipts for taxes has gone UP since the tax cuts were put into place? Is all this new money (which, by the way, is driving the deficit DOWN) coming from that rich 1% that you love to gripe about? Hmmmmm....there go those doggone facts again, getting in the way of alllllll your hate logic!

3. There are about 1,000,000 people in South Louisiana AND Mississippi who would LOVE to have to worry about how much taxes they pay on their income and their house, because to pay taxes on either, YOU WOULD HAVE TO HAVE AN INCOME OR A HOUSE!!

[page2171]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Gee, isnt it time to introduce another tax cut for the wealthy to get things going?</div></div>

I wouldn't mind another one of those "tax cuts for the rich". Apparently as an E-6 in the military I qualify as being "rich" since I benefited from the tax cuts? I wouldn't consider myself rich, but if you want to think I am rich go right ahead and keep living in your delusion.

[Jibby]

Krag-Jorgensen Rifle. Issued throughout the 1890's to the U.S. Regular Troops. All of the troops in Cuba, and those in the Philippine Occupation, and the Boxer Rebellion, used them.

30-40 caliber. Created by one Mr. Krag, of Norway. Produced, by one Mr. Jorgensen, of Norway.

[Rawja]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> If tax cuts are only for the rich 1%, then how come the Federal receipts for taxes has gone UP since the tax cuts were put into place? Is all this new money (which, by the way, is driving the deficit DOWN) coming from that rich 1% that you love to gripe about? Hmmmmm....there go those doggone facts again, getting in the way of alllllll your hate logic! </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I wouldn't mind another one of those "tax cuts for the rich". Apparently as an E-6 in the military I qualify as being "rich" since I benefited from the tax cuts? I wouldn't consider myself rich, but if you want to think I am rich go right ahead and keep living in your delusion. </div></div>

No one said that only the rich received tax cuts, just that they (and not only the top 1%) were <span style="font-style: italic">disproportionally</span> relieved of their share of the tax burden (myself included). The average taxpayers' coupla hundred dollar tax cut in a time of massive budget deficits amounts to a <span style="font-style: italic">loan</span> which you'll be paying back with interest.

Federal receipts DECLINED FY 2001-2004 the recent "increase" you refer to is against the depressed federal income levels of those years, NOT a net increase.

Lets look at federal budget deficits:

In 2000 we had an 236 billiion dollar surplus which was put toward paying down the national debt, interest on which dwarfs most other expendatures within the federal budget. In 2001 the surplus had been halved to a 128 billion dollar surplus followed by 2002's 158 billion dollar deficit 2003's 378 billion dollar deficit and finally 2004's 412 billion dollar deficit.

Source:Congressional Budget Office

The national debt now stands at 7.9 TRILLION DOLLARS.

Here's a chart to illustrate:

This year the U. S. Government spent $336 Billion of your money on interest payments to the holders of the National Debt. Compare that to NASA at $15 Billion, Education at $61 Billion, and Department of Transportation at $56 Billion.

There is no "hate logic" at work here, just straight-up mathematics. Fiscal responsibility used to be a hallmark of the Republican party, but no more.

Additionally, as previously mentioned, the census bureau released a report a week or two ago showing both poverty and income disparity continue to rise, eroding the middle class and undermining our future. This administration while admittedly masterful of the political and public relations game is actively undermining the underpinnings of our democracy which is the middle class.

You really need to ask yourself this: Am I going to take the word of the wealthy who tell me that giving them massive tax cuts helps the average tax payer? Hmmmmm.... It doesn't seem even a little bit fishy to you? When the explanation requires all sorts of convoluted logic to explain, again you should regard it with distrust.

Always check the facts.

[Guest imported_barra]

I am not an economist but I have noticed how many reattas are for sale on this forum- more than I have ever seen the in time since I joined. Match that to the number of houses that I see for sale, and not selling also. Mr Padgett remarked that the people here either have too many Reattas or too little money to buy another one. Altogether, it would seem that we are trying to sustain ourselves by selling those possessions that supply our wants in order to preserve our needs.

[Jibby]

I would agree.

[Jibby]

88ReattaJohn: Learn yerself, some history, here: The Price of Freedom: Exhibition

Also, more can be learnt about the rifle, here: The .30 Caliber Springfield Rifle of the Krag-Jorgensen Pattern

[Machiner 55]

Something to add to your collection. [color:\\"red\\"] See Attachment.

[Jibby]

Bwa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

[luftweg]

Boy has this thread digressed.... lol...

K

[Machiner 55]

April 24, 2004: The Times-Picayune reported that ?less money is available to the Army Corps of Engineers to build levees and water projects in the Missisippi River valley this year and next year.?

[color:\\"blue\\"] Meanwhile, an engineer who had direct the Louisiana Coastal Area Ecosystem Restoration Study ? a study of how to restore coastal wetlands areas in order to provide a bugger from hurricane storm surges

[color:\\"red\\"] ? was sent to Iraq [color:\\"blue\\"] "to oversee the restoration of the ?Garden of Eden? wetlands at the mouth of the Tigris and Euphrates rivers,? [color:\\"red\\"] for which President Bush?s 2005 gave $100 million.

Let's see now... should I spend money here at home to protect the folks here or should I send the money and that fellow to Iraq?????????

Decisions... decisions.........

Dubya

Excerpt from "The Other America." a NEWSWEEK article written by Jonathan Alter. Sept 19 2005 issue.

But after a decade of improvement in the 1990s, poverty in America is actually getting worse. A rising tide of economic growth is no longer lifting all boats. [color:\\"red\\"] For the first time in half a century , the third year of a recovery (2004) also saw an increase in poverty. In a nation of nearly 300 million people, the number living below the poverty line ($14,680 for a family of three) recently hit 37 million, [color:\\"red\\"] up more than a million in a year.

The poverty rate, 12.7 percent, is a controversial measurement, in part because it doesn't include some supplemental programs. But it's the highest in the developed world and more than twice as high as in most other industrialized countries, which all strike a more generous social contract with their weakest citizens. Even if the real number is lower than 37 million, [color:\\"red\\"]that's a nation of poor people the size of Canada or Morocco living inside the United States.

Hmmm... Let's see... Tax cut for the wealthy or, a..... What the hecks that other thing?.... Help existing businesses move good paying jobs with benifits offshore... no, that ain't it.....

Dubya.

[Guest EDBS0]

I am not impressed by the progress.

WHAT PROGRESS???