Drum to disk brake conversion

[Guest Frankkc1]

I am looking for some ideas as to what to use to convert my 57 Century for drum to disk brakes. I find that I am driving it far more than I anticipated (so much fun). It drives like a dream but in heavy traffic it is a bear to stop. I would appreciate any and all replies to this. I have tried every source and the companies they recommended, all to no avail. So if anyone has an idea please let me know.

Frank

[Guest]

Frank-

This is just my opinion, and I am pretty sure others just might disagree.

In many of the national magazines lately, I keep seeing this conversion as a suggested "improvement." As if the drum brakes are just a small step from constant disaster.

Leave it stock. Go through the original brake system, turn the drums, give her new shoes, and springs, rebuilt the master, etc, etc. In other words, COMPLETELY restore the original system to "as new" specs. Make sure they are all properly adjusted.

These cars stopped just fine when they were new (and pretty well used, too). Sure, disc brakes are a little bit better. ABS is a little better, too. But you're probably not out running slaloms, and doing repeated high-speed emergency lock-ups.

I don't know the availability, but if Power Brakes weren't standard equipment yet in '57, but an available option, upgrade to Power if your car doesn't have that. That would certainly decrease foot pressure required.

The conversion on such a car would be a whole lot of work, and then the car would no longer be "right." Not to mention, you just might not be satisfied with the results...

Spend the money and effort on some other aspect of restoring it to "as new" condition, instead. I drive my '33 Chevy thousands of miles per year, and it has MECHANICAL brakes (ohmyGod!), and I always seem to get stopped just fine.

Just one guy's thoughts..

[Guest John Chapman]

Frank,

All due respect to other posters... I think that if we had used to drag anchors to stop, there'd still be those that insist that chipping and painting the chain and sharpening the flukes to specs would make a marginal system acceptable. Try the following link to a BCA discussion and vendor:

1957/58 Buick Disc Conversions

Cheers,

JMC

[old-tank]

The brakes are adequate when combined with the suspension and steering. Better brakes or the perception of better brakes may inspire confidence and more aggressive driving and the dated suspension and steering are not up to the task.

Willie

[Guest norb]

I have driven Buicks for many,many years and I think they have better brakes than most cars.Turn your drums & put some good shoes on & they should be OK. Norb

[Guest John Chapman]

Arby gar, mateys!

Be that a danforth, plow, or fisherman ye be a draggin' there...?

Hard to tell from all the sparks!

We've <span style="font-style: italic">always</span> done it that way!

JMC

[heidigirl]

before converting to discs, i piddled around for years turning drums, trying different shoes, rebuilding master cylinders and anything else i could think of to improve the braking performance of my car. but, there was always the thought of a light turning against me. do i run it or try to stop? have i left enough room between me and the car in front of me?, etc. i didn't view the experience as "driving" so much as an "adventure in motoring".

from the moment i put the car back on the ground, i knew i had made the right decision. this is not a step up from drums, it is a giant leap. heavy traffic? lights turning red? i no longer give it any consideration. i just hammer the brakes knowing they will keep me out of trouble, except for the driver behind me. i have never tried to measure stopping distance, but it is immeasurably better now and the "feel" is comparable to a modern vehicle.

the one specific suggestion i can offer is to use a booster appropriate to the weight of the car, rather than the under hood space available. you can always throw the booster in the trunk.

[Guest rlbleeker]

I wish I could convert my '96 Riv is drums! Darn disks are always squeaking, pulsating, icing up in the winter and giving you that nothing.... then WAMM were stopping now effect. I've had plenty of '60s cars with drums and if in working order they are just fine. Only exception I've found is my '62 Skylark, it does not stop from 60 as well as I would like. It's not an issue of disks vs drums, simply and issue of size, they didn't put big enough drums on it. If you are doing repeated hard braking, disks do disapate heat faster and won't fade as fast. As far as I'm concerned they are not worth the trouble.

[Guest 70 Electra]

I agree that there is generally no reason to switch to discs on a collector car that is driven in a sane and responsible manner.

The primary area in which discs are "better" is for fade resistance (i.e. loss of braking performance due to excessive heat from repeated/prolonged use). They also offer improved wet performance (work well after driving through rain/puddles), and slightly faster response (linings have less distance to move before contacting rotor/drum).

Unless you are driving your car in such a spirited fashion as to be encountering brake fade, I doubt you'll see any improvement from discs.

Instead, try what others have suggested: turn the drums, get some new linings (you'll get the best performance and brake life from original NOS asbestos linings), and adjust the brakes to minimize free play when pedal is depressed.

If you are fighting physics (i.e. manual brakes on a 4500 lb car), try installing the correct 57 power booster setup.

Just my 2 cents.....

[Guest 53and61]

My experience reflects Greg's statements exactly. With asbestos linings properly arced to the drums, my 4100lb '53 stops on a dime when the brakes are dry. I once had to make a panic stop from around 70mph -- all four wheels locked and I stayed straight and in my lane. Pedal pressure is very reasonable because of the unwrapping effect of floating shoe geometry. I don't see what more brake friction offers when the wheels are locked, assuming the tires themselves have sufficient sropping friction. (ABS would be nice, though.) I drove the '53 in the Colorado mountains for years and noticed definite fading, but even in that situation I always felt safe -- you use engine braking judiciously to keep the brakes cool. Driving through big puddles does affect the '53's brake performance fairly drastically, and that's a flaw that I wish I didn't have.

[Guest John Chapman]

I'd recommend attaching that anchor line to the rear crossmember instead of the bumper... Yee haw!

JMC

[Guest rlbleeker]

That's a good point about having your shoes fitted to your drums. Don't just by remaned shoes from NAPA (or wherever) and throw them on the car. They will most likely only contact in a couple of places (at the ends) and you will not be impressed with your stopping power. I always have my old shoes refaced and fitted to the drums at an industrial brake shop. They'll label the shoes and the drums, don't get them mixed up.

[jcarter]

I converted my 57 Special to front discs this winter. I got my conversion kit from Mike Pemberton, ( the link you were given in a previous post)I just bought this car in the fall and new right away that the brakes would have to be improved for safety in todays driving invirnment.This car had power brakes and new shoes and freshly turned drums, but scary to drive. The conversion is pretty straight forward with Mike's instructions, but there are a couple of issues, ie. the drivers side vent duct that you have to sort out.If you want a little more info, reply back and I will go into more detail Jim.

[brad54]

Just an observation:

We're all used to driving new cars every day--and we're used to the way those cars perform. Then we slide behind the wheel of our vintage car, and obviously know it's a different driving experience, but as we're cruising down the road with the windows down and the radio on, we're probably not thinking about doubling the brakeing distance we're used to. If we are CONSTANTLY thinking about every single pebble in the road and rotation of the tires, are we really enjoying our drive?

That being said, I am planning on upgrading the brakes on my '54. Now that the disc conversion kit mentioned previously is available, I might go that route. HOWEVER, the first plan is go get self-adjust brake hardware from a later '60s 12-inch drum Buick and adapt it to the backing plates on my '54, converting them to self adjust. This will be a BIG step in the right direction.

Fitting the linings to the drums is a very cool idea--I hadn't thought of that before, and will do it.

Dual reservoir master cylinder is mandatory. Check with Master Power Brakes. I used a '50s Corvette conversion kit for mine, with a remote reservoir so I didn't have to pull up the carpet when servicing the brakes, and added a longer plunger rod.

Finally, I'm going to swap in 4 finned aluminum drums, to help with the brake fade.

At some point, though, I probably will upgrade to discs up front.

If they didn't work better than drums for around-town driving, they wouldn't be on all the new cars today. They're more expensive than drum brakes, so if the companies could save money on them and the performance was the same, you bet your sweet bippy they'd be sending them out the door with drums at all the corners!

-Brad

[56 Buickboy]

An owner of a 57 Buick in NZ has used Mid 80's Chev Truck discs (PCD is still 5x5) and machined the spindle and hub to suit taper roller bearings. He used Wilwood callipers and an early 90's GM master cylinder.

I understand that 94-96 Chev Caprice/Impala rotors can also be adapted to fit.

Obviously a caliper bracket would also have to be fabricated.

I have also seen a tech article on www.rodandcustommagazine.com/techarticles/99358/ that covers a 60 Oldsmobile conversion.

[Guest John Chapman]

BuickBoy...

That's one way to do it...

The kit linked above turns the entire process into essentially a bolt on exercise with all necessary parts except the kit available from local suppliers.

Cheers,

JMC

[Guest Frankkc1]

I think I am going to take your advice as to the brakes. I feel very insecure when I haul my land yacht out onto city streets. It will go, but the stopping is a different story. Any information and or advice would be very much welcomed. Frank

[jcarter]

Order Mike's kit. It has the brackets, instructions, and a list of the part numbers for the rotors , calipers, bearings, etc.That part is almost bolt on. The harder part is putting a new booster/master cylinder on.The old booster/m.c. is bolted to the black airvent duct, with a reinforcing tube going thru to inside of firewall where it is held with a large nut.This supports it on the light ductwork.I used a 8" dual diaphram booster and a late 70's m.c. from a pickup/ impala/ chevelle.I removed the ductwork,and put a reinforcing plate on the back side to strenthen it up, then drilled a new bolt pattern to fit the new booster.It now sits on the front of the duct as before, which is out about 4" from the firewall.You need to get an aftermarket booster with a threaded pedal shaft because you have to put an extension on it to reach your pedal.There is also very little clearance between the hood hindge and the booster/m.c. I first tried a booster off an S10, and it rubbed against the spring. I also used an adustable proportioning valve, and 2 and 10 # residual valves in the hookup. Hope this helps some, Jim

[Philippe Racicot]

I drive Buicks with drum brakes as daily drivers since I got my driver's licence in 1993 and always thought they were OK in every traffic situation I encountered. My 1967 Riviera and newer Buicks have disc brakes which are more powerful but my 1965 Wildcat which is my current daily driver still has it's aluminium drums and a single master cylinder and I'll keep it that way even if it's far from being a show car.

Before upgrading to discs, I'd consider upgrading to aluminium drums. They were installed only on the Roadmaster 75 back in 1957 but were standard on most 58 Buicks including Centurys. I'm not sure which years interchange but I'd think that pre-65 aluminium drums would be the same.

[old-tank]

'55s have good brakes

[bebop138]

We did a similar upgrade--I went all drum, I used the backing plates off a Roadmaster so you can use the larger shoe up front,the rears stay the same, went with the finned aluminum up front and new drums on the rear. All new shoes and spring kits,wheel cylinders, lines. I did the same reinforcing on the air duct and went with a 9 inch booster from a 67 Nova and master from a 66 Caddy, made my own booster rod. The car is not yet on the road as we are still doing major upgrades to the car, but the brakes are in and bled and seems to have a good pedal--I had non-power to begin with and the pedal travel is very close to the way the manual worked. It will be a improvement from what I had, maybe not as good as discs but what I expected.