59 vs. 60: Overseas vs. US

[Guest 70 Electra]

I've noticed that while interest between 59 and 60 Buicks seems similar here in the U.S., it appears to me that overseas interest is considerably more focused on 1959s.

I'm hoping some of our overseas members will post a message about their 59s (or 60s) and help me understand why this is.

[Guest 70 Electra]

Come on.....don't be shy!

Do you agree with my claim? If so, why do the overseas collectors favor the 59 more than the US-based collector?

[Guest imported_MrEarl]

Uhmmmm, I think you must have stumped them good on that question Greg. Even I and my mid fifties oriented mind have noticed what you are speaking of. Maybe they were unaware and are now trying to figure it out themselves.

[50jetback]

No, we're not shy. Here in Australia 59 and 60's are just that rare we don't have the dilema of trying to decide which is more desirable. Just about the only examples are more recent imports. From memory I think there was only one vehicle representing 59 at the recent National meet held in Perth.

[BRAD59]

I think it's " Fin Envy"!

[Guest invicta592]

Greg, It's fair to say your assumptions appear to be correct, as I would reckon I've seen about 10-12 59 Buicks here in the UK, and maybe 4-6 60's. I'm sure there will be more, but not all car owners are show-goers.

For me, the thing that draws me to the 59 is the sheer flamboyance of the styling. It's not a criticism, but the previous years seemed to show only minor changes from car to car (Skylark Excepted). Even the '58 has shapes and contours that are immediately identifiable as Buick. The '59 however looks nothing like any other car Buick ever produced, neither before, nor after. Razor sharp lines, swooping roof-lines, and an aggressive look to the front end.

Somehow the 60, despite its best efforts, looks like a bit of a styling back-pedal to me. Perhaps the 59 car looked too aggressive for its's time, as the 60 has "softer" styling all round. Curves in the body panels, the rounding of the fins, a more traditional grille with horizontal headlamps. A pale shadow of the previous year.

That's not to say I don't like the 60's, its just that, in my personal opinion, the 59 is the most beautiful car ever made.

[Guest imported_MrEarl]

looks like Dave got it figured out and sounds like a good answer to me.

[Guest Tom]

Invicta592, I noticed with interest your comment about the "aggressive" front end styling on the '59. I've had our car to numerous shows and when a little kid comes along to look at it with his parents, they inevitably make a comment about the front end. I've heard kids say comments like "it looks mean" and "it looks mad", but the best one I heard was a kid that said "it looks like the devil car"

[Guest 70 Electra]

<span style="font-style: italic">My friend Martin Bernoulli of Switzerland sent me a reply on this matter which I found to be very interesting and insightful. He asked me to edit it before posting it, so I have taken a few liberties with word-smithing. Hopefully, I've not lost the essence of his response. Here goes......</span>

I believe there is a fundamental difference between Europe and the US, as to why we choose a collectible American car.

In my past travels to swap meets and other car events in the US, I?ve noticed the average age of owners of these cars are 10-20 years older than here in Europe. When asked why they have such a car, they often reply: "Oh, my dad owned one", or: "It's the same type of car as I learned to drive in?, or: "It's like my first (second/third) car I had during my high school years".

I think that most owners of vintage US cars in the United States select their cars based on memories of their youth. The exact make, year, and model are influenced by either their first car, their father?s car, or some other fond recollection. Bottom line: It's guided by memories!

Here in Switzerland (and Europe in general) things are very different: In 1959 and 1960 only a handful of Buicks were imported as new cars to Switzerland. They were very, very expensive cars (compared to the small European cars). Additionally, gas prices were (and still are) about 3 times the US level (due the high taxes). As a result, only extremely wealthy individuals could afford the luxury of any large US car. Yes, even a Chevy Impala was something exclusive here.

With this in mind, you can see there would be no memories of driving school or father?s car. Any cars in high school would likely have been a small Volkswagen beetle, Citroen 2CV, or equivalent. Additionally, cars do not have the cultural importance here as in the US. Public transportation was (and is) much more common here. People rely on our many tramways, busses, and trains for much of their transportation needs. In 1959-60 there was only about one car per ten inhabitants.

Another factor to consider is that there are very strict regulations for vehicle registration and licensing. Rusty cars are not permitted. As a result, most cars in daily use are no older than 15 years of age. Average age of cars is much less than in the states.

Because of all this, average Europeans have a very different relationship to cars than Americans.

Nowadays, here in Switzerland, there are frequent shows and meets for US collector cars. Many of the cars in attendance have been imported relatively recently (past 10-20 years). I would guess that most of our owners of vintage US cars have selected a specific make and model strictly due the unique features of that vehicle, whether it be styling, design, engineering, etc.

Personally, I have a 1959 Buick. So, why did I decide on a 59 rather than a 60 (or a 58)?

My first car was a 63 BelAir station wagon, which I still have. In 1989 I decided to get something with better styling. I did extensive research and after exhaustive comparisons, decided on a 1959 Buick (a wagon again). By the way, keep in mind that I had never actually seen a 59 or 60 Buick in person!

I realized I needed to travel to the US to obtain such a car. In the spring of 1990, I found my (now) aqua blue '59 Le Sabre wagon in Cinncinnati, OH.

In my personal opinion, the ?60 Buick is a toned-down version of the '59 (fins, canted headlights, grille design, steering wheel, etc.). For this reason, I prefer the '59, although I think the '60 Buick is also a beautiful design. (And, as for ?58s, I feel the windshield is too small, and it lacks the "longer, lower, wider" design.)

Here (Switzerland), there are now about 3-4 times more 59 Buicks than 1960 models. In other places in Europe this might be different. But consider there are also about as many '58 Buicks around as '59s (beside the '57, '56 etc)! There are very few 1961-up senior series Buicks here. Due to their smaller size, the Special & Skylark seem more popular for those years. Rivieras & Wildcats have gained some popularity, too.

To answer your question in short: I believe in the US, the choice of car year depends on memories, here in Europe it depends more on the design and styling of the car.

Sincerely,

Martin Bernoulli

(as edited by Greg Cockerill)

[Guest AlK]

You know that poses an interesting question that I do not think could ever be answered. Each of us, as individuals, has his/her own particular brand of car that floats our boat, as the gentleman from Switzerland indicated. Question: If some how,way,shape,or form we could abandon those pre-conceived opinions, what car would we choose. As I said I don't think that question could be answered because we can't forget what we drove in college or high school etc. etc. but if it some how could be done, it would be interesting to see what we would go for.

[jscheib]

Excellent points. I for one, got my '32 from my father in 1970s and it took 30 years till I had the time and resources to restore it. It was the last in a series of antique cars he owned, while I was more interested in a series of Ford hot rods, and motorcycles. You just cannot sell that off, maybe my heirs will, but I cannot.

For my Riviera, I was simple drawn to the good looks and power of the car, and one I could drive around without a major parts problem. Whenever I drive it I sense (having lived in Europe in the late '70s) of the high coast to drive such a high powered car. THat may be memory too, but I don't recall any speciafic Riviera that impressed me back in the '60s.

I think most all international buyers are selecting cars based on what is attractive to them, while we Americas are eiher looking for a memory or a bargin.

John

[Guest invicta592]

I've not had the "devil car" remark, but I've heard the rest. Funniest one was a kid saying to his dad as he walked over for a look at my car saying "I don't want to go near it Daddy, it's frowning!"

Kids eh?

[Centurion]

I appreciate the thoughtful responses to Greg's original question from some of our overseas members.

To follow up on some of the comments regarding the "angry rocket" styling of the '59's, "Balthazar" has posted some of the following on other sites, and I thought you might enjoy seeing this image and story:

<span style="font-style: italic">"This is the only known image of what local newspapers have dubbed the 'Death Car'. Eyewitnesses could only describe the vehicle as 'very large with angry headlights and a screaming engine'. No known driver description is available. 13 unrelated victims were senselessly mowed down in individual incidents across 9 west Texas counties the summer of '64, yet no suspects were ever brought in for questioning. A national dragnet for the vehicle, a silver or white 1959 Buick coupe, assumedly with either heavy front end damage or evidence of repairs, failed to turn up a match. The file remains open to this day."</span>

At one point, Balthazar also had a great image of the four headlights from a '59 Buick, and it was downright sinister, but could not be located. But here's one of the posters from the film "Dudes".

[Centurion]

I received a telephone call Saturday evening from an individual I met in Flint at the Buick Centennial. He reported to me that he has just sold his '59 Electra 225 4-door hardtop to a buyer in Germany. The car sold for $15,000. The buyer already owns three 1959 Cadillacs, but says that he regards the '59 Buick as the most beautiful car of the era. He evidently had been looking for some time for a nice 225 flattop.

In order to gain some further flavor of the '59 Buick's international appeal, you might enjoy looking at the website maintained by Seattle area car enthusiast, Rolf Astrom. Rolf is a Swedish import who retains many contacts with car collectors in the Scandinavian countries. Rolf and I met shortly after he completed the restoration of a '59 LeSabre 2-door hardtop, which he subsequently sold to a buyer in Australia.

Rolf's website (www.classicroad.com) includes a "World Buicks" link, where he shows photos of '59 Buicks located around the world.

'59 Buicks Around the World

Rolf also has some photos of Martin Bernoulli's cars and other '59 Buicks in Switzerland:

The Swiss Connection: 1959 Buicks

[WQ59B]

Hey Brian- 'balthazar' is me, BTW. Glad you liked the 'story'. Do you frequent and/or post on the site you've seen the pic/story on? The other pic I had you referred to I don't currently have uploaded nor on this computer, but was made from a found online pic of a blue '59. I will try and send you a link soon.

RE: 59 vs 60-- here on the East Coast I have personally found '60 to be more common & shown, but this dismays me as I agree with the post above about chosing the '59 based on design (which was my motivator). A good friend who owns 11 '59s seems to feel the same as I; that '60 is 'watered down' compared to '59. There's a purity and inspiration throughout the '59 that seems lacking in the '60, IMO.

With yet another 'handle', I appear yet again under Rolf's World Buick link as "Sparky from NJ" with a circa '99 pic of my '59. I desparately need to get this car finished...

[Centurion]

Mark, I figured you were the "Balthazar" character, and it's great to see you here again. I see that you are about ready to replace your '59 Invicta body on the chassis, and I hope you will keep us posted on your progress and the end result!

[bhclark]

I have always loved the 65 wildcats, thinking they were the most beautiful car I had ever seen. (coincidentally, my first car was a 65 wildcat, given to me by my grandfather) However, while shopping for a 65 Wildcat convertible, I ran across a 59 invicta 4dr ht and fell in love with the delta wings and that incredibly menacing grill. Well, what can I say, I bought both, and continue to look for more! a '38 is currently on my list!

I do agree that the 60 buicks seem to be "muted" versions of the 59s and I could not even think about comparing the styling of the 2.

Viva Buick!

[Guest Lowastheygo]

I love my 59 belair sedan,owned it over 12 yrs already,i also dont care for the 60,59 has all the good curves,,gotta have the full whale tail and chrome down the whole car.

[Guest Rob McDonald]

While I don't qualify as "overseas", I am over the border, so I'll weigh in as an honourary foreigner (note the exotic spelling). I'm a young baby boomer, born in 1954, so most of the cars of the '50s had been junked by the time I started to really notice them. My neighbourhood was very middle class - a carbon copy of Levittown NY - so cars tended to be very dull, practical and usually bought used.

I think that is one of the few non-regional cultural differences between Canada and the US - we don't generally spend as much on cars. Our oldtimers' last cars are more likely to be Valiants or Corollas, not S-Class Benzes and de Villes. The biggest auto sales segment in Canada is actually the subcompacts. Mind you, big dumb pickup trucks are right up there too, at least here out west.

So it was in my youth. My father's cars were a 4-door succession of Fords, Chevs and Plymouths, each purchased when they were at least five years old. I didn't know anyone who owned a Buick in the 1960s, although one high-flying (and hard-falling) uncle had a series of new Cadillac convertibles. There were lots of luxury cars around, just not in my socio-economic stratum.

If I was going to start again, amnesia-fresh, as AIK suggests, my favourite Buicks would be a '49 Roadmaster sedanette and a '59 LeSabre 2-door hardtop. Pure, gut-tugging style, both of them.

Despite my otherwise grey-haired dignity, I'd have a really hard time not slamming both of these to the pavement with air bags. That's how their designers drew them, dang it. It was Engineering who hiked them up to handle the back road conditions of the time. Now that North America is pretty much paved over, it's time to set these beauties back down where they truly belong.

For proof, I need to go no further that this Forum - mild and wild.

[Guest Rob McDonald]

SORRY GUYS, let me pull this back on topic. Remember, this is just a dream sequence. In the real world, these babes would be trapped in my garage, until about the middle of April. That's when the ice ruts in my back lane can be expected to subside.

[Thriller]

Mind you, big dumb pickup trucks are right up there too, at least here out west.

Careful...I resemble that remark. Between agriculture and oil patch, pickups are a way of life out here, not to mention Buick hauling.

I can say I don't recall many Buicks in my youth, but that was in small town Saskatchewan. That said, from the GM of Canada archivist, it was confirmed that my '66 Wildcat was sold in Saskatoon, my '56 was sold in SK (and has a sticker on it from a small town dealer...just don't recall it right now), and Charles Barnette's '59 was sold here in Winnipeg in a Canada only colour combination.

To find Buicks, you need to find the demographic they catered to - upper middle class. There weren't that many lawyers and doctors and such in small town Saskatchewan.

Either way, I'd be happy with either a '59 or '60...I think the wife and kids would prefer the '59.