Should I buy an old car for my daily driver?

[Scot A]

My '90 T-bird is on it's last legs. I am attracted to the idea of getting a pre smog car that I can repair and maintain myself. I am capable of most any repair or refinish that an older car could need. I don't want a project though. I wan't to use it every day. My commute is only 12 miles each way in Central California. Air conditioning and extreme cold are not an issue. Speed is not an issue. I am attracted to Ford, Chevy, Chrysler and Buick sedans of the late '40s to mid '50s. A pickup of the same vintage seems nice. I really could use a pick-up. I need to keep costs as low as possible, that is the goal here. I was thinking of buying a car that is is good shape or restored to original configuration by a hobiest. I have no interest in hot rods or hacked up cars. I was thinking if I ever sold it I would be able to recoupe the investment. I am not afraid of spending some decent money upfront since the maintainance would be low cost and I would have no car payment.

One thing that has come up in converations with friends is driveability. Will I have a vehicle that handles poorly, and is unacceptably noisy? I have no issue with manual transmissions or even non-syncro gearboxes. What about safety, is crash survivibility really a big issue? Seems to me that an older car would eat a modern import for lunch in an accident.

Am I delusional or do you think I have a good plan? Do you have a reccomendation on cars I should be seeking?

[Snappydwp1]

About 11 years ago I bought a 73 Ply. Duster that was the original little old lady's car. It had 13'000 miles on it, slant 6cyl, automatic trans. and air cond. It was about as old with still being funtional as I think a car could be. I just don't think for your first old hobbie car that something in the 1940s would be a good choice to be also a daily driver.

[Dave@Moon]

Using a true antique as a daily driver is doable, but has several drawbacks. It's really a matter of risk and acceptability.

For an antique being used as a daily driver there is no practical/affordable way of obtaining the same level of collision and comprehensive insurance coverage that most people are comfortable with. If it were obtained through a standard insurer, your car would likely be valued as though it were a worthless pile of junk regardless of it's true condition, and reasonable replacement value in the event of an accident or theft/vandalism/etc. would be nearly impossible to obtain.

Also the safety factor of old (heavy) cars is more psychological than true. People who drive 12 mpg SUV's for the same reason buy into that idea, even though time and again they've been proven statistically no safer than large and even better mid-size cars. We recently had a guy here in Cincinnati who was killed driving a '40 Ford in an accident that visually didn't cause a lot of damage to the car. And you better believe that problems like that are factored into any med coverage you'll need to drive an antique daily.

Will the car handle poorly and be noisy? Relative to any new car, of course. That's just a matter of personal preference. People commute to work in new Jeeps because they <span style="font-style: italic">prefer</span> that kind of experience. I'd say losing the insular nature of today's cars would be the best benefit to using an antique as a daily driver.

Your commuting needs alone (50 weeks, 5 days, 24 miles/day) work out to 6000 miles/year. If you purchase a relatively fuel-efficient antique (i.e. Rambler, stovebolt 6, etc.), that kind of driving probably won't be a serious factor in fuel cost over a modern car. However a 10 mpg gas hog could become burdensome should gas prices (for whatever reason, usually half-way accross the world) go up more than they already have. That is a cost few people factor in properly. The fuel cost difference in your case between a 10 and a 25 mpg car (considering <span style="font-style: italic">just</span> the 12 mile 2 way commmute) works out to around $60/mo. <span style="font-style: italic">NOW!</span> (50 gal/mo vs. 20 gal/mo) It could get worse. A lot worse.

I'm all for driving our antiques as much as humanly possible, as I've stated here too many times. However these are risks I've chosen not to take myself. It's all a matter of what you're willing to risk.

[Richard F]

Modern cars require little effort and demand little involvement or thought by the driver. Vintage cars make you aware that you are driving a machine and you have to be involved with it. This is both the pleasure of driving them and the distraction when all you want to do is just get somewhere.

You may think that air conditioning, comfortable seats and ergonomic interiors are something that you can do without, but if you are married or have kids, will there be times when they will have to ride in it as well? Will they share your sense of sacrifice? Unless you live on the coast, central California is hot 4 or 5 months of the year. What are they going to say when their shirts begin to stick to the seats from the heat? Older cars often have poor insulation through the firewall and they do get hot.

Older cars also require regular maintenance--a lot more-- frequent oil changes and lubrication at least. It was no accident that the old full service gas stations would check the water and oil at every fill-up. They needed attention. Older cars have single hydraulic brake systems and for safety sake, they need to be in top shape at all times. Even then, they will not stop the car in anywhere near in as short of a distance as that Honda Civic in front of you. And you won't be going 70 mph on the freeway... welcome to the truck lane.

Do you ever get in traffic jams? Stop and go traffic is no fun in a vintage car. Many had marginal cooliing systems to begin with and vapor lock can even more of a problem today with current gasoline formulations than it was when those cars were new.

Of course, there are some things you can do to make them more drivable and safer. Add an electric auxilliary fuel pump. Put in seat belts. Maybe consider a 12-volt conversion, electronic ignition, auxiliary electric radiator fan or radial tires if authenticity is not important to you.

Some cars of the 40's and early 50's have a reputation for reliability (such as the Chrysler products of that era) that might make them a better daily driver but might not appeal to your sense of style.

Now if you still feel good about the idea, by all means, go find that 1949 Buick or whatever suits your taste and have fun. I'll be the guy giving you the thumbs up from my '34 Auburn on Highway 99 outside of Sacramento. But maybe not every day... not if it's over 95 outside... or raining... or if I have to get there fast... or if the freeways are jammed up... or maybe not if my wife's along and she's a little cranky that day. Those days you can find me in that new Volvo with the cruise control set....

[Buicks Rule]

Until this past year, I have pretty much always used cars from the 60's as my daily drivers.

It is possible to insure them using stated value/agreed value insurance. You will have to shop around suppliers as some companies don't do this. You may also have to be over age 25. Although never had a major incident, I was hit at a stop light by a dim wit in a Toyota who had trouble reading a red light. Her company had to pay to repair the damage because of the way MY company wrote MY policy.

The first words out of the dimwits mouth as she notices plastic Toyota pieces littering the road were "Oh, I'm glad I hit you, it's an old car." She lived to regret those words.

When I was in college in the 80's, I used a 37 Buick as a daily driver for about a year. The car was well used and needed some serious work which I had neither the time nor the money to do. I still own the 60's Buick that replaced it and did daily service from 84 until about 90 when it became a show/tour car.

Buicks from the late 30's are probably among the most drivable cars of their era available today. However, they are NOT real happy at highway speeds due to rear axle ratios around 4.00 to 1. Gas mileage is a factor as well.

Even though your daily commute is relatively short, think about other driving that you do. Will you have access to a more modern car if you want to take a longer trip? Do you want things like CD/Tape/Stereo, ability to charge cell phone and so forth. Then you'll need a 12 volt car which means middle 50's and newer.

Cars from the middle 50's through the 70's offer a wide variation in size, body styles and driving experiences. They simply WON'T get the gas mileage of a more modern car but with the right engine/transmission/driving habits decent gas mileage is possible. Better than many modern SUV's but not on the order of a 2003 LeSabre.

Back then, Buicks really did drive differently than Fords, than Chevies. So, make sure that you spend some time with the car before you buy and that you LIKE the way it drives/stops/handles/performs in your daily driving activities. You may find that you love the looks of a certain car but you don't like driving it.

Been there, done that. You can't see how it looks from the drivers seat. Liking the way something drives will make you happier long term than falling in love with the styling and disliking driving the car.

Definitely add seat belts, possibly shoulder harness too.

Buy the nicest car you can afford, and assume that you'll still probably spend a couple of thousand dollars fixing stuff within a few months of purchase. Any car that hasn't been used frequently will have a few bizarre surprises in store for you as it comes back to life in daily use. So, you'll want to always have some funds in the bank to cover the unexpected.

The only car that ever stranded me in the middle of nowhere was a 6 year old early 80's Dodge convertible. The 50's, 60's and 70's cars have always gotten where they were going with surprisingly little theatrics-including many cross country trips made at 70-75 mph max legal speeds.

Good luck. It can be done, but do your research first and buy a GOOD example of what you like. You won't make money but you'll have a distinctive vehicle that you can have fun with. Your friends will always know where you are.

[Scot A]

Thanks guys, you gave me lots to think about. I will respond to everyone in one post. I know it will be a bit of a jumble. Insurance, that is an issue; I have a wife and baby. I need to be responsible. Can't you get insurance through specialty insurance outfits that cater to the antique car crowd? I don't expect the ride to be like a new Toyota luxury car. I only drive a short distance on the back roads of coastal central California. As far as radio, I would enjoy the original tube AM radio. I don't use FM or the CD player in my present car. In fact one of my hobbies is restoring tube radios. Fuel economy is not a factor. In the scheme of driving expenses it is the least of one's worries...IMHO. I don't mind some extra effort as far as driving. My first car was a '62 Bug. I loved that car. It was noisy and did not handle like a modern vehicle. I have only fond memories. I am sure I would become accustomed to what ever I was driving. Years ago I was a truck driver for a farming company. I drove some real junk there. It was pretty fun. As far as ergonomics and family transport, we have a Ford Explorer for that. (By the way, do not buy an Explorer!)

"Of course, there are some things you can do to make them more drivable and safer. Add an electric auxiliary fuel pump. Put in seat belts. Maybe consider a 12-volt conversion, electronic ignition, auxiliary electric radiator fan or radial tires if authenticity is not important to you."

I probably would so some of that. I would prefer not to do anything that permanently altered the car though. I have enough experience collecting other antiques to know that I could destroy the historical integrity and value of it. I don't mind doing maintenance and repair. I have worked as a mechanic and have all the tools necessary. In fact oil changes are so easy and painless today with the oil change franchise places.

I did a little looking around as a result of your responses, I like the looks of the '47 Chrysler Imperial, '50 Caddy Sixty-one, '47 Caddy Series 62, the '48 Chevy Sports master sedan series 2000 looks great. I like the rounded aerodynamic look of that era. This car looks great to me. http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/369399

If it were closer I might buy it. I have been told the straight eights were very reliable. Even so should I be looking at cars with more common engines like the Chevy straight sixes?

Which of the cars in this vintage will be easiest to get parts for?

[6219_Rules]

I have a '47 6269 sedan that I am looking to sell. It is all original except for the Delco radio which I had rebuilt to get FM. You can see it on the Collectable Automobile Photo Post...if interested, please email me and we can chat.

My insurance is through Allstate and they insure my classics through Haggerty but...now get this...without the requirements for a locked garage! Also (and maybe this is because I live in Colorado) I have no usage restrictions. In fact, I run the '47 as a daily driver. Its paint is OK, not great and not original (it was Antionette Blue) and I will admit the vacuum wipers don't work...I am working on that...but other than that it runs beautifully. What a car to drive!

I will say that no power steering, or brakes, make it a real driving car. I love it.

My other car is a '77 Eldorado Biarritz and, my son and I are redoing a 1956 Cadillac 6219 .

Oh yeah...my utility vehicle is a 1981 Chevy C-10 Pickup with an inline 6. Great truck too.

BTW I have had no trouble finding parts.

[Guest]

Scot, Of the cars you mentioned the Chevrolet would likely be the easiest to get parts for. As a daily driver it would probably also be the most practical choice. My preference would be a 1935-41 Packard 110 (6 cylinder) cylinder business coupe if I wanted a nice relatively compact reliable antique as a daily driver but they are pricey!

I see that your preference is for a North American car but the old '50's Volvo 544 and Mercedes Benz 180 sedans are pretty simple and for the times safe and very reliable. I use my Packard Super Clipper for getting around town in the summer but gas mileage is poor except when I can get it into overdrive on the highway and the Cadillac and Chryslers you mentioned will be similar and that's another reason for the Chev being my choice unless you don't mind a little Plymouth, Ford, Nash etc.

Of course by all means look at Randalls Cadillac!

[Richard F]

Frankly, I wouldn't worry about parts much. Buy the make and model that you like. I have never had trouble finding a part for a '34 Auburn although most people can't seem to believe that. If the car has any collectible value, there is someone-- probably more than one, that has NOS, used or reproduction parts for your car. You just have to know where to find them and the way to do that is to join the national club for that marque, AACA, CCCA or whatever applies.

I can find just about any tuneup and maintenance part for my Auburn at the local NAPA dealer. You can get any rubber part for any major (and some minor) American made car from the 1930's on from Steele Rubber products. But most of all, component parts in the 30's and 40's were made to be repaired and not just replaced as they are today, so unless a part is completely destroyed in a collision or something, you can rebuild it or fix it.

[critterpainter]

I live on the Calif central coast and drive the backroads to work. MY current daily driver is an 93 Miata with 180k miles on it. My backup cars (yes I drive these to work when I am in the mood) are 62 Metro convertable and a 28 model a coupe. I doubt if you can get antique car ins for a "daily driver". There is an antique Buick parts suppler in the area (Atascadero) so if you get a Buick parts won't be an issue. Bobs is WELL stocked.

Tne downside of driving these older cars is in their handling. I have to put up with what I call "mexican rush hour" when the farm workers go flying to work at the winerys in their cars and race each other home. Not fun having them coming at you and passing on a blind corner. I was driving an 89 mustang GT convert that day or I would not be here typing this. (no contact as the msustang handled GREAT and I was able to get out of the way) could not have done that in the "A" and would have been dificult in the metro.

Bill

[Guest bkazmer]

I would suggest using radials. I also strongly second (third?, whatever) the idea that the handling and braking of an older car are far less capable that a modern one. The difference is less noticeable, as another poster said, if you are comparing to a truck. Even "recent" old cars (70's) handle/brake much worse than today's.

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> ...so unless a part is completely destroyed in a collision or something, you can rebuild it or fix it. </div></div>

Of course something like that <span style="font-style: italic">never</span> happens to a daily driver! Imagine needing a front clip replacement (including trim) after involuntarily meeting one of Bill's farm worker buddies one night on the way home from work. Now imagine you need it by Wednesday so it'll be installed in time for the rental car's expiration on Friday (that coverage doesn't last forever, you know), otherwise you don't get to work on Monday. Now try to get them to pay for it.

You can't minimize the risk by simply dismissing it. It's something you have to live with.

Also,

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Fuel economy is not a factor. In the scheme of driving expenses it is the least of one's worries... </div></div>

My point was [color:\\"red\\"]<span style="font-weight: bold">that can change!</span> Gas won't be $2.13/gal forever you know! Even if burning an extra $60 dollars a month in gas doesn't sound like much, it's big chunk of a car payment! If Iraq goes <span style="font-style: italic">phoooey!</span> (or more <span style="font-style: italic">phoooey!</span> than it already is), you could very easily be looking a car that costs a lot less to abandon than drive!

And that's to say nothing of the environmental impact, which like it or not is a factor. And at that I'm not just talking about smog and global warming. With oil companies (as the driving force of government these days) trying to protect their refinery emissions, how long can we expect a "daily driver antique" to enjoy emission testing exemptions? The push to crush such cars gains strength every time one of their lobbiests gets appointed to another agency. Failing an emissions test might have more serious consequences very soon!

Again, these are real risks. I wouldn't dismiss them so lightly.

[Pontiac59]

I bought a '60 Pontiac in 1994 and it was my only car for three years, I put some 30,000 miles on it. Good gas milage, comfortable, 12 volts, yet old enough to be distinctive, good handling, and I didn't have any problem with the fruit jar manual drum brakes - they'd stop me from 80 if I had to.

Just plan ahead, buy some replacement parts you can carry with you and carry a decent tool kit and a change of clothes and so forth. Worst case, you have to change a part yourself on the side of the road - better to be carrying one than to have to have a tow because you can't find the part you need at Pep Boys like some late model car.

[Guest De Soto Frank]

Scott,

Good points from all the guys here... I'll add my thoughts too

I've driven "old iron" for daily drivers since getting my license in 1984; cars & trucks over 25 years old...

A word about trucks: until the mid-1960s, trucks were strictly utilitiarian vehicles built to haul heavy loads. They weren't particularly desigend to be comfortable or fast. All pre-1963 trucks are going to have leaf springs at all four corners, and will ride like Granpa's buck-board wagon. American cars gave up front leaf springs and solid axles by the late 1930's...find one to ride around in for a few hours, and you will get a "feel" for what I'm talking about. Also, old trucks don't like highways...most pre-1965 pick-ups are happiest at speeds less than 50 mph. No old truck that I've owned (mostly Chevys, 1964 & earlier) have done better than 12-14 mpg (and that's with a six). Cabs were pretty small and spartan too in those days; they're neat, but not what I'd call a "family car".

Around 1965, Ford and Chevy started offering pick-ups with independent front suspension and more "Deluxe" cabs: folks were beginning to want pick-ups as "second cars", and desired something more comfy than the previous generation of "strictly work" trucks. Some more "humane" examples are the 1965 & 66 Ford F-100, and the 1967-72 Chevy C-10: these trucks will offer much improved comfort, but retain the look of an old truck.

'Nuff 'bout trucks...

Cars: for a true daily driver, I'd suggest something from the '60s or early '70s. I've had good service from the 1962-65 Ford Falcon, also the 1963-66 Valiant and Dart. Chevy's are probably the easiest cars to get parts for, and the 250 cid Chevy six is one of their best engines ever.

Pretty-much any American car from 1955 up will tolerate freeway driving, especially if it has a V-8.

You mentioned a '47 Chrysler Imperial...wonderful luxury car (I drove a '48 New Yorker in college), but much tougher to find parts for, and will drink MUCH more gas ! You might also be "underwhelmed" by its performance...

Another question would be: are you handy with a wrench? An older car is going to require regular preventative maintenance to keep it going; the more you are capable of doing yourself, the better you & your old ride are going to get on...it also means you'll be better prepared to deal with the occasional "side of the road" or "parking lot" repair.

Any car you buy that is over 20 years old should have the braking system checked THOROUGHLY, and I would suggest a complete rebuild, replacing ALL the steel lines, flex hoses, and anything else that looks remotely questionable. Brake system plumbing corrodes from the inside-out; just the nature of the beast...the car might only have 10,000 miles on it, but the brake lines might be rusted-through from water-logged brake fluid (DOT-3 and DOT-4 brake fluids can absorb water from the ambient atmosphere - this is what causes the corrosion inside the system, even though things might look perfect on the outside.)

You will also need to get to know the car and what it's handling limitations are, and drive accordingly...most pre-1970 cars riding on bias-ply tires will NOT take exit ramps at 60 mph ! Also, they probably won't stop on a dime - leave extra stopping distance (all the good stuff they taught us in those "hokey" driver's ed films from the 1960's )

I have a 1941 De Soto that I drive quite frequently; it has yet to leave me stranded (knock wood!), but it is not "maintenance-free" either. I think older cars can be viable daily drivers, but they require patience, understanding ,and more frequent attention than most "modern" folks are used to giving their car...I think I'd suggest to keep a newer car in the stable for the Mrs. or as a back-up...

I hate the smog laws too; PA is starting emissions inspections in our area, and that does come to bear on me and my '93 Escort...

When you start narrowing your list to specific cars, seek-out people who have '64 Novas (for example) and see what they have to say about them...

Good luck in your project !

[Matt Harwood]

It can undoubtedly be done reasonably and inexpensively, but I wanted to share my experience.

This is <span style="font-style: italic">exactly</span> how my father (and I, subsequently) got into this hobby; he thought a '34 Ford sedan would be a great-looking daily driver. Then he found out that the brakes were not up to the task of managing modern traffic (and this was in 1974!) and felt that the car was just too nice to drive in the winter. So he bought a Model A, thinking that it was lighter and more reliable than the V8 and that being less valuable, he wouldn't have any problem driving it in any weather. But the realities of sidecurtains and manifold heaters hit him in between the eyes, and he still owns the car today and drives it only in nice weather. Then there was the 1941 Buick Super coupe which he did drive successfully for about 3 years in any sort of weather. He added a Southwind heater and it was pretty toasty in there. But again, trying to combine 1941 brakes with 1980s traffic led to an ugly meeting of his grille and the rear bumper of the '74 Plymouth in front of him. Then there was the '66 DeVille convertible which ultimately rotted out from under him in the harsh Cleveland winters (even after being extensively rustproofed).

Also remember that there are probably a ton of things you take for granted in a new car that will be daily reminders for you in an old car. Heat soak, rough starting when cold, marginal handling for on/off ramps, slower acceleration, smaller marker bulbs, dim headlights, ineffective windshild wipers, etc. And if you think you'll save money on maintenance, go down to your local auto parts store and see if they have a set of kingpins for that '51 Buick or a set of brake shoes for the drum brakes on that '58 Pontiac. Go in and ask for a set of points--for any car--and see what they say. I doubt you'll save any cash on the maintenance front. New cars pretty much need oil and gas and they'll run for a long, long time. Despite the prevailing thought that old cars were easier to work on and simpler in design, they just weren't as reliable for the daily slog, especially in today's traffic conditions.

So yes, I suppose it can be done. But with a lease on certain new cars being under $200 and providing comfort and reliability that an old car can only dream of, I question the real-world choice of any old car over the cheapest of new cars. Plus you don't have to worry about other fools going out of their way to crash into you while admiring your car in traffic. Get a cheap new lease, use it up, turn it in, get another one and so on... If you have a problem with leasing, then buy a 2 or 3-year-old car which has depreciated to affordability. Use the money you're considering spending on an older car and get a nice used modern car with all the benefits that decades of technology and mass production can give you.

Hope this helps.