Help/Advice needed in purchasing a new car

[Roadster90]

My girlfriend is about to purchase a new convertible...no Reatta >>>likes my Reatta but wants a brand new car. Is interested in the 2004 Chrysler and the T Bird. I have no other reason other than I just like the Bird's styling, the history thing, possible resale value at a later date, and of course the 2 seater thing, but that is what I have suggested and she seems to be very interested as well. It has a 5 speed auto tranny and a 3.8 32 valve V8. Is anyone on the forum knowledgable with the realiability of this drive train or the car in general to endorse it please????

Thanks,

Nic

[BUICK RACER]

My Aunt walked into a deal a year or so, where someone turned down a t-bird at a dealership in FL, she loves it! She has always had a love of Fords, tried a Buick in '64, a Riv, the problems with the electric windows not working in a rain shower or storm at Pikes Peak that summer turned her back off on Buicks, my Dad, her brother has never really owned anything but Buicks, except for the '71 Olds Custom Cruiser with NO AC they bought new as their first new car ever, and then what did the Aunt do but by a Olds 98, and then another one which she claims had nothing but trouble with, problem child from day one, another story, but my Dad, the Buick guy has ridden in the new thunderbird and was not impressed. Unless she wants to wait a year for the Pontiac Soltice convt, which will be priced in the $20K range, I would go with the Sebring, but you really ought to talk her into waiting for the Soltice, or going with a Reatta convertible, which will hold value, and is a all around great car for it's size and $$. R

[Guest EDBS0]

Get the current issue pf Grass Roots Motoring where they talk about letting depreciation be your friend. They Recommend a used BMW M3 (my favourite)(hopefully one soon in my future, looking now) and comes in a ragtop, Porsche Boxter rag top.

Incredible value for the money when used. get this issue!!

My rapidly appreciating 2 cents.

Great magazine to subscribe to unless you have my deal which is better...My brother-in-law subscribes

[Guest Buick Mike]

My wife wanted a new Thunderbird, too. We did not get one because, quite frankly, I think they are way overpriced. Also, they are going out of production soon and I have had enough experience with orphaned cars (Reatta, Taurus SHO, Buick GN) to know what a PITA it will be to find parts/service a couple of years down the road.

Mike

[Guest]

My recommendation..look at the new Saab 9-3 Convertible. That car is amazing.

[Roadster90]

Thanks folks....

I am forwarding information/wisdom posted here to her...

Greatly appreciated,

Nic

[Guest tempest68]

Chevy SSR is two-seater convertible. But my favorite as far as styling is the little Mercedes SLK Roadsters. You have your choice of a 192 hp 4, 215 hp 6, or the AMG edition 349 hp 6

But it also depends on how much money she's willing to spend. If the budget is tight, I'd also vote for waiting for the Pontiac Solstice.

Or if the idea of going off road sounds like fun, the old Jeep Wrangler's could be alot of fun.

For more ideas, I think www.edmunds.com allows you to search based on type of vehicle. So you could quickly see what all of the convertible options are.

[Guest imported_Flash]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My recommendation..look at the new Saab 9-3 Convertible. That car is amazing. </div></div>

Nic,

Have done some evaluating myself, namely because my leases runout every 36 months. While in Ireland last Easter, became enamoured with the 9-3. Looked into them here and they certainly deserve a review. May or may not be the "one", but worth a look.

Caution.....don't test drive one unless you are willing to buy it. Tester's have a habit of taking them home.

Quite well made, solid feel.

[ALF1]

Don't overlook the Volvo convertible with its boron/steel windshield frame which acts as a roll-bar, along with pop-up head-rests, which do the same.

<span style="font-weight: bold">-- ALF</span>

[farnelle]

The problem is you have a girlfriend and not a wife. After a number of years, wives learn not to expect much and generally if there are enough children demands, cannot afford much anyway. I just bought Jerry's Maui blue for my wife and she is happy as can be.

I also like the Thunderbird looks, but it is pricy and is a limited run car. If she has money, is not very tall and doesn't plan to keep it beyond the parts, supply, I would be tempted to go with it even though I am not a Ford person. At least in SC they are not selling very well because of the price, but that does not seem to equate with getting a good deal on one.

[Depley]

I have always wondered if anyone out there has taken a really close look at the T-bird. If you do you will see that it does not have its roots in the old 55-57 t0bird other than the port hole. The rest of the car looks almost exactly like a 1954 Corvettte. The front grill the rear tail lights. If you don't believe me put a picture of each side by side, it will be so obvious its not funny!

[ALF1]

As a long-time member of the Classic Thunderbird Club, Int., our group had initial input on the design of the new Bird. It was prototyped back in 1999 as a 2000 model. Most of us felt it did not represent the best retro thinking, as did the latest model Mustang (and, indeed, the fantastic 2005 Mustang about to debut). It was -- and remains -- a disappointment to us diehards. Fit and finish, as well as design, are substandard; it deserves to die. Hopefully, its next resurrection will more closely resemble the original.

<span style="font-weight: bold">-- ALF</span>

[Howard]

Having owned a 1996 Sebring Convertible, I can say that I did enjoy the car. It did not leak, was roomy, even in the trunk, and was in the shop only once in the 4 years and 60,000 miles I leased it. Resale value stinks. The Thunderbird is very pricey (but cool) and 2005 will be it's last year. Over on the Lincoln forum, some people are already having problems getting parts for their Mark VIII's. It's production was ended in 1998, so I would be concerned about the Thunderbird a few years down the road. Others have mentioned other makes, but beware. While these are all great cars, no doubt about it, remember there is not a Volvo, M/B, Saab, BMW, ect dealership everywhere. While these are all worth while cars, they can and will fail. Not a great situation if you are in the middle of nowhere and the car craters. Usually there is a GM, Ford, or Chrysler dealership near by anywhere you might drive. Don't forget about up keep and insurance. Some cars cost more to own than others. Happy hunting. Howard

[HRP]

Just test drive the Camry Solara Convertible. I've been so impressed with Toyota and Lexus automobiles, I've bought Toyota stock. Toyota vehicles are very well built, finished out superbly, and depreciate less than most American cars.

[Guest dukeofo]

Chrysler is great at building disposable cars if that is what you want.

The T Bird, pricy, demand low, limited production and well it just hasn't done well, because frankly it hasn't found a niche....

Consumer Reports mentions a few includine the HOnda 2000 as a favorite but I too love the Solara.

However IF she can hold off ..... I'm very tempted to hold off and wait until the new Mustang Convertible comes out..... yes they are small.... but so sexy......

the Saab looks good too but the Volvo convertible is shutting down, and they are coming out with another one in the smaller version S40. volve ever since being bought by ford, has had their reliability go south.. again check this months consumer reports....

of course MB is the front lead... but I do love that Cadillac convertible but it was rated low on reliability and again is pricey.

I suppose the new cobra is out huh?? wow what a car.....

Cash not being an objective/hinderence.... I"d opt for the Solara or the MB.....

I would avoid the T Bird and the Sebring..... also not the PT Cruiser convertible.... nor the VW convertibles.

Happy convertible hunting........

[reattadudes]

I have always referred to Consumer Reports as the "small timer's bible", and I believe the title fits more today than ever.

some interesting items:

--their chief auto tester was the only chief engineer fired by Chrysler for incompetence. could this explain their low ratings for Chrysler products? it has always amazed me how I can own all these "unrecommended" cars, from Yugos, to K-cars, to Cadillacs, and I never have any of their problems. coincidence?

--their constant love of anything Japanese. their comments after testing the Toyota Previa minivan, concerning the placement of the engine under the floor, on its side: "we see no service or maintanence concerns".

--oddly skewed reliability results. they rate the Volkswagen Passat well (and recommend it), yet rate the Jetta reliability much worse than average. both share exactly the same drivetrain. who could question it? Consumer Reports knows!

--big lawsuits. both Suzuki and Isuzu have taken Consumer's Union to court, and won big settlements. in both the Suzuki Samurai and Isuzu Trooper cases, Consumer's Union employees (present and former) testified that the chief engineer wanted both SUVs to fail in their handling tests, and instructed employees to "do whatever it took" to make them fail. this included having tire pressures vary as much as forty pounds on the same axle.

there was no outside testing agency hired by the plaintiffs or the court who could duplicate the Consumer Reports rollover results. of course, all this came too late. the resulting bad publicity killed both the Samurai and the Trooper.

--its interesting to read some of the old Consumer Reports issues, including the ones from the late '80s-early 90s that clearly state the GM 3800 engine had "much worse than average" reliability. I'll keep that in mind the next time I get in my 225,000 mile Reatta convertible, and get that "millisecond start", just like when it was new.

--a few notes on the vaunted Mercedes-Benz: I had a 1991 350SDL sedan, and when I traded it in 1994 (2 days before the warranty expired), the total Mercedes spent under warranty to keep the car running was $26,455. this one really taught me the value of walking, especially on the 115 degree days when it broke down out on I-10 in the middle of nowhere. by the way, it was traded on a new Cadillac Concours (another "not recommended" by CU). of course, not one problem, ever. didn't wear out my shoes anymore, either. as far as the "excellent resale value" on the Mercedes, the best buy bid the Cadillac dealer received was from a local Mercedes dealer. it was $9,600 below wholesale.

--a recent survey of German motorists ranked Mercedes-Benz at number 32 in reliability.

I think its just hard for me to take a publication seriously that can test minivans, toasters, spray paint, and cream pies, all in the same issue.

now I've learned the real secret of life: I buy everything they don't like. I've ended up with a bunch of American cars that don't break, and run forever.

Mike

[ALF1]

Gotta love you, Mike! Any chance you can replace Nader on the Independent Party ticket?

Stay the course; keep up the good fight.

<span style="font-weight: bold">-- ALF</span>

[Guest DTerry]

And I thought it was just me...

Glad to see someone else feels the same as I about Consumer Reports.

And one of the cars about which I said I'll never have another one is Mercedes. Volvo almost made the list.

Disposable Chrysler cars? My 91 Caravan (All wheel drive, towing package) has 223,000 miles and is still going strong. If I can control the rust, I think it might last forever.

There ain't no substitute for Detroit iron!

[padgett]

Well it might be that CR is aimed at the mechanically inept and not fanatics. Personally have always thought of MB as the most popular taxicab outside of the US and BMW as "the best sports sedan under $2,000" (Car and Driver c.a. 1967).

Have had some of everything (excellent service from Vegas, last Cadillac was a 1967 Fleetwood Brogham) but few that I would want today (well maybe a FIAT 124 Spyder). Solstice does look interesting as Reatta is the only exception to a string of Pontiacs that but not certain that I could justify the same price I paid for our Bonneville during a recession. Also not a six (too many Jaguars in my yout).

Do have a craving for a convertible since sold the GALB a few years ago. Are there any SL MBs that are a good deal ?

[HRP]

You will be kind enough (and masochistic enough) to tell us the final choice, please?

[Guest dukeofo]

Consumer Reports is not perfect by any stretch, but it's one heck of a lot better than someone going down to the local dealer and buying just any ole vehicle that catches their fancy...... Anyone who does not research before buying a vehicle, puts themselves and their family in harms way.......

for every good example given here, any one of us could give similar examples of American dogs produced......

I have 4 American vehicles now including my beloved Reatta Convertible but I'm not stuck just on buying so called American cars.... for they, for the most part, have not met the quality that some other companies have and these so called foreign cars, e.g. Solara are built here in good ole USA by American workers.

the good thing about this and other auto discussion groups is that we can all learn from each other, if we choose.

Hmmmmmmm and about those brakes on the Reattas that lock up just when you need them?? GREAT quality there? Oh yeah, they are French brakes..... on an American car. forgot...... I'll try to remember that the next time they lock.....

Regardless, I still favor the Solara but am waiting to see the new Mustang....... My ole bones couldn't handling riding in a new Vette but they sure are sexy.....

and personally I've struggled a lot with what new truck to get to haul the Reatta or Rivieras..... I want to buy American but the Tundra quality is so much better.... and maybe the new Titan too.

what ever ur girlfriend chooses, We'd love to hear the final results and why?

My gal wants a PT Cruiser, which by the way CR's rates well..... even thou up to this year they don't have the power to pass a roller skate.

God Speed and Happy Motoring... to all here, no matter what you drive.

[ALF1]

I quit reading Consumer Reports when it touted the Chrysler K cars as a "Best Buy" back in the '70s. They were falling apart before the magazines yellowed.

<span style="font-weight: bold">-- ALF</span>

[Guest dukeofo]

I always thought the K cars were disposable like so many other Chrysler products, ..... but amazingly you still see a lot of them limping around.. mostly poo folks, finding cheap transportation.

that's kinda how I feel about R n T's or Car n Driver cars of the year....... usually a bad choice.....

You gonna sell that blue beauty soon?? I'm saving my pennies...... and dimes and nickels and quarters, but the bottle's getting so heavy......

God Speed Alf... and his friend Jerry

[Roadster90]

Hey folks,,,,

Missy and I went to look/drive the 2004 T/bird tonight. Went to the oldest Ford dealer in Richmond...Richmond Ford (advertised as the "Landmark Dearer").

The salesman gave us the keys and a tag without (we were referred) any form of monetary qualification or identification checks, and we drove the car for at lease 30 to 40 minutes. We were then sadly treated like total low life worthless trash by the sales floor manager. To complicated and not worth going into. Anyway, we drove a "Vintage Green" (ladies color for sure)colored Bird, and although we were impressed with the performance and handling, the interior and gadgetry were somewhat of a letdown.... Couple that with they way we were treated, and we went and looked at a Volvo convertible.

It was late, and we did not drive the Volvo, but at 41K for the Bird, and 44K (list prices)for the Volvo...well, no comparrison...Volvo far superior (especially saftey features). T/Bird not out of the question totally yet (that dealer is), because of Howard's comments on service and parts availibility. We intend to look at the other makes you folks have suggested. Need to get the GR Motorsports mag as Robert suggested, and take our time.

Thanks for the help, and any other comments/suggestions would be appreciated.

Nic

[Howard]

Hi Nick:

Sorry to hear about your Thunderbird experience. I have not driven a new Bird, but I did get to sit inside one that the dealership failed to lock one Sunday. Like yourself, I thought the interior seemed too cheap for the price that Ford was asking. Our Reatta's are more nicely finished. I made the statements about service because for almost 25 years I worked in car dealerships as their Office Manager or Comptroller. I've seen or heard just about everything! Over time, we have had customers trade in very good cars, because something happened on a trip and they could not get them fixed without being towed, in some cases hundreds of miles. My rule of thumb. If your don't have a dealership near by (at least 50 miles), look elsewhere. Just having warranty work done is a real hassle. I currently drive a 2001 Acura CL Navi, but a dealership is 20 miles away. There is not an Acura dealer at every bend of the road. If there was not one close to where I live, I would have passed. If you plan to travel a great deal, especially in out of the way places, be careful what you buy. Several forks have commented on Toyotas. I forgot that Toyota just re introed it's mid size drop top very recently. Now Toyota's are great cars with a fairly expansive dealer network. You might take a look. I think you would be safe with them. Keep us informed. Howard

[Roadster90]

Hi again folks,,,

We were going to drive the Volvo, BMW, Chrysler, and talk to another ford dealer this afternoon. 1st stop was the Volvo Dealership on the opposite side of town, where I knew several people that I used to work with. The trip stopped there....she feel in love with a champaign 2003 C70-5 (with the high energy turbo) with 7500 miles and bought it. I am happy as I worked for a multi-line dealer group that had the Volvo franchise years ago, and I am somewhat familiar with the reliability as well as the saftey (most important) features of the line. Happy ending (I hope) to the story .... thanks again everyone for the suggestions/comments/help...

Nic

[Guest EDBSO]

Atta BOY good job, excellent choice.

Sounds sweet.

You realize the next 20,000 miles on the car are critical as to its longevity. They must be driven properly SO.. at great personal sacrifice I will volunteer to carefully put the next 20,000 miles on it. OK Shall I pick it up Monday, say at the crack of 11:00

[Tinker]

Treat it right and you might get into the GUINESS BOOK of World Records.