Why doesn't BCA set up a PayPal account for dues renewals?

[Reatta Man]

I've been using PayPal for some time now on ebay. I've also noticed other businesses taking PayPal for online purchases in addition to ebay items.

The question is, why doesn't BCA set up a PayPal account to allow members to renew online? BCA could even use the service as a revenue generator. I think that everyone that is referred to PayPal by an existing subscriber gets a $5 referral fee. BCA could post the link for non-PayPal subscribers to sign up and the association gets $5 per new member.

The only down side to this that I can think of is that the service charges a fee of about 3% per transaction. For the convenience of signing up online, 3% would be little more than the cost of printing the renewal notices and envelopes and the postage to mail the renewal notices.

How about it, BCA officers. Has this ever been considered?

Joe

[NTX5467]

Paypal might be a neat concept, but I don't do eBay so I haven't set up an account with them and, from what I've heard of some of the scams related to Paypal, might not. What might be an alternative would be regular Mastercard and/or Visa capabilities, something that most everyone already has.

For those that do a lot of eBay selling, I've heard (at least this was a couple of years ago) that Paypal works pretty slick, but there might have been some changes of ownership or similar since then. Seems like it's a full eBay entity now? Or has it always been?

This might be something to be investigated in the future, but the old fashioned "send a check in snail mail" still works just fine without any processing fees, in the mean time.

Just some thoughts,

NTX5467

[Reatta Man]

Snail mail has some significant inherent problems.

1. It is slow. SNAIL mail.

2. It is risky. Lots of checks being stolen every day out of mailboxes, pockets, purses, cars and wallets, copied or forged, thus creating problems for users. And that doesn't even touch on the identity theft problems of someone getting your name, address, social security number, date of birth and drivers' license numbers. If a crook gets those items, he IS you as far as stealing your money is concerned. (You don't still have all that info printed on your checks, do you?)

3. It is expensive for both parties. Printing is about 2-10 cents per page or item, depending on quantity ordered, number of colors and complexity of printing. Add postage (what is it now, 38 cents or did it go up overnight again?) each way and it adds up for thousands of users. This doesn't even include the cost of the staff's time in prepping and mailing out those notices every year.

4. It is very inconvenient. I don't even carry a checkbook anymore because of reason #2.

I hope this idea is seriously considered. It would make money for BCA through referrals of new members. They could set up a PayPal account so customers can pay dues AND buy things from the BCA store online and the BCA staff doesn't have to buy a lot of expensive hardware and software.

[Guest John Chapman]

I agree with NTX5467, a PayPal account would be overly complicated. IMHO, a BCA VISA/MC merchant account would be the way to go. They aren't free, but the time saved and the ability to auto-renew members might offset the cost enough to make it workable.

JMC

[BUICK RACER]

It's been in the works for awhile, and will happen eventually. The VISA/MC merchant account.

[Guest John Chapman]

Another wrinkle here would be for the BCA to offer an 'affiliated' card from MBNA. That way, BCA would be getting some small portion of the merchant discount. I'd think BCA members would be willing to support this. I belong to four of five other organizations that have affiliate cards.

JMC

[BUICK RACER]

I've had an MBNA BCA credit card since 1998, use it exclusively, and have for awhile. Back when I was the Treasurer we were receiving around $300-350 or more per quarter. That was a couple of years ago, maybe Mike Book, will jump in here and tell us what we have been making since he and Nancy took over the BCA Office.

[Guest imported_BCAOffice]

We are currently making about $1300.00 per year on the MBNA program. It's a nice income for what little we have to do to qualify.

Mike & Nancy

[BUICK RACER]

Thanks, Mike, I have to work on the online renewal and new membership link a little harder, will do so!

[NTX5467]

I got my BCA MBNA MasterCard when it was first offered. Neat thing to have and use!

NTX5467

[Guest imported_65gs76limited]

one thing everyone has forgotton. all of the BCA members aren't on line.we have alot of members,the older folks who have been in this club for years,that don't even have a computer.setting something up to pay over the internet is a great idea,but you can't do away with mail-ins.just my 2cents.

[BUICK RACER]

Correct the pay by mail will never go away!!

[Reatta Man]

The idea is to provide BOTH...PayPal for those of us online (such as everyone using this forum) or snail mail for those that are not.

The Buick MBNA card has nothing to do with PayPal, but you could set up your PayPal account to bill the credit card for anything you buy with PayPal, including ebay, the BCA store, or ANYONE that takes PP.

As for complexity, it isn't. Takes less than five minutes to set up; no additional hardware or software needed.

Just love it when new ideas are widely accepted.

[BigFella]

I think it's a good idea. I use PayPal for alot of things on-line now.

I'd even pay the extra dollar fee that PayPal may charge to do this depending on how it is setup.

[NTX5467]

I know that PayPal is a neat thing and that many people use it for eBay items and such. ONLY thing is that it's just another database that can be hacked to get your information and your money. It could well have the same protections as MasterCard and others, but I would be more infavor of the credit card that I already have working to pay my BCA dues if I so desire. I'm online too, but I don't and haven't needed to use PayPal as all of the sites I have bought things from will accept my other existing credit cards--at no additional access/user charge (as the merchant pays that 3-7% charge). Most everyone already has a credit or debit card now. For those that don't, there's probably a reason they prefer to pay with money orders or personal checks.

I respect the orientation of using PayPal, but it's not the only option.

Just some thoughts,

NTX5467

[jaxops]

I agree with the previous posts. PayPal is expensive for the receiver at least, and is also an EBay Company now. I don't think that as a non-profit, we as an organization should align with EBay. I use EBay a lot, but I don't think AACA or BCA should endorse them in this way.

[BigFella]

hmmm where to start...please nobody take this as an attack on them. I hear these same concerns on a daily basis and there is alot of misconceptions out there.

I work in computer security every day and let me say there is always a chance of someone getting "hacked" and information being stolen. That being said, PayPal as an outstanding reputation for security and prosecuting folks who even look wrong at their servers. (no I don't do any work for PayPal or their parent company)

Now computer viruses and worms are gathering alot of attention in the media recently as they probably should. Break-ins occur but the amount of information that is lost in this manner is far far less than the "old fashioned" methods you do not hear about on the news every night. Take for example identity theft. It happens the majority of the cases from someone taking bills that have yet to be mailed *or* incoming bills right out of your mailbox. Think the blue post office

boxes are safe? Last year they snagged a ring of folks who were fishing mail out of them as well. Did the press report any of this? Nope. Wonder why? Identity theft is a huge crime and is growing at an alarming rate. This crime effects us directly, not some huge company that makes widgets...us. Stop and ask yourself why the widget company being down for a day becuase of some virus should draw more news coverage than a story that effects you directly? Conspiracy theorists love this stuff! You see stories about identity theft but they never spend enough time explaining to folks what to do to avoid that crime.

What about that waiter or waitress you hand your credit card to while at a restaraunt? They disappear with your card...do you know where? How they process it? Are you sure they did not write down your card number? In college I watched an employee do just that and also steal cards that were left behind...never prosecuted. Same scenario for calling on the phone and ordering something...When you get a card processed by any company guess where the servers are that now have all your information? The Internet...do you know where they are? How well they are protected? Nope. Are they owned by the credit card companies? Not all of them. Most companies keep information databases with all this information in them and they are not very secure...

You could go on and on and back and forth about how insecure any method of payments are...

I myself have no issue keeping some of my information on PayPal. (I try to never keep it all in one place). I know who has the data. I know who is responsible for that data. They have a policy to keep me informed...as I said, PayPal is one of the few on-line companies that is respected for it's security, as they should be. I used them before they were purchased by eBay and the only thing that has changed is the logo and it's much easier to use on eBay now...I have also purchased items not on eBay using PayPal and even have had folks send me money with no eBay.

The only bad thing about using PayPal would be the additional fee's involved for

using a credit card. These can be avoided by using an eCheck or the fees may be waived if PayPal were told the BCA is a non-profit org? Not sure about that but I still feel this would be a good additional option for memebers of the BCA that would like to use it. I still understand that not everyone is on-line, or trusts the technology involved. The other options should be there as well. I would be moving funds right from my bank account to the BCA and this does not involve any fees as it does not involve a credit card at all...an eCheck :-) . No stamp, no fee, less time, no snail mail.

There is also the option of sending money from your bank using your on-line Banking. Alot of banks now offer on-line bill pay as an option...some offer this for free as they no longer have to process checks.

I'll stop now...I'm starting to ramble :-)

[Guest imported_Thriller]

Good to hear the BCA is moving forward . As a Canadian, it gets to be a bit of a pain dealing with U.S. entities by mail. Is is something like seventy cents to mail to the U.S. and I have to pay for a money order in U.S. funds as well. Being able to use my credit card will be a welcome change.

Is this BCA MBNA program still active? I'm not sure I want another credit card, but I've been a member for a year or so, but don't recall hearing anything about it at all.

[BUICK RACER]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good to hear the BCA is moving forward <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />. As a Canadian, it gets to be a bit of a pain dealing with U.S. entities by mail. Is is something like seventy cents to mail to the U.S. and I have to pay for a money order in U.S. funds as well. Being able to use my credit card will be a welcome change.

Is this BCA MBNA program still active? I'm not sure I want another credit card, but I've been a member for a year or so, but don't recall hearing anything about it at all. </div></div>

Derek, the BCA/MBNA credit card deal is still on, they(MBNA) only do a yearly thing I think, so you should receive some info from them in the next months to come, but then again, I am unsure if they include the folks outside the US, maybe Mike Book, BCA Office manager can let us know if the MBNA deal includes our members in Canada, I have a notion that it doesn't include Canadian members. But if there is interest, I'm sure that it can be worked out to include Canadian members.

[Reatta Man]

First, lets separate the apples from the oranges. The BCA credit card has nothing to do with a PayPal account. If you have a PayPal account, YOU determine which card or account is used to pay or receive funds.

Second, a PayPal acount costs merchants between 2.2%-2.9% in fees for business use. When many business compare this cost of doing business to waiting on checks to clear, returned checks, frozen accounts, checks incorrectly filled out or not signed, etc., they opt to accept credit cards. The additional cost of printing, folding, sealing annual bills, along with the cost of first-class postage, and the cost of manpower to receive, open, sort, credit to account and deposit checks gets to be a very significant cost. I know because I have done this as a volunteer for other organizations I have joined in the past.

If you add in the fact that BCA may actually ADD new members online because it is easier to pay for dues or merchandise, that is an added plus. Every non-profit group I work with is loosing membership because younger people do not join groups the way baby boomers and their parents have done in the past.

Additionally, as for security, there is NO comparison between using a credit card online and giving out your checking or savings account number in order to use an e-check or other online payment. I NEVER give out my checking account number because if that is stolen, a thief can clear you out before you realize they have the information.

If a credit card number is stolen, you are limited BY FEDERAL LAW to no more than $50 in liability for fraudulent charges, no matter how much a thief charges on the card. Most card issuers waive that $50 if your card is stolen. As far as I know, there is NO SUCH PROTECTION for your checking account. YOU have to deal with your bank in order to get your money back. Good luck.

Keep in mind that when people say no to using technology for business, the rest of the business world is busy passing you by. For example, Walmart.com registered a 60% increase in online holiday sales in 2003. Some reports show Internet sales will soon be a trillion dollar business. People would not spend that much money online if the technology didn't work or if it genuinely was not safe.

Here's a quick list of non-profit groups that I know of or belong to that accept dues payments online:

National Veterans Organization http://www.nvo.org/membership.html

National Guard Assotiation of the United States https://www.ngaus.org/whatisngaus/AssocMember.asp

Disabled American Veterans www.dav.org/membership/index.html

The Air Force Association www.afa.org

The American Legion https://join.legion.org/be_a_member/bm_applyonline.php

These are just a few that accept payment online. I could easily give you a list with 20 more names. If PayPal is not the best way to accept payment online, then find and used something better. I'm disappointed however, when I hear an idea universally dismissed when I know it works for many other great organizations.

[Guest John Chapman]

Reatta...

I think you're right on the money. (Ahem, pun not really intended...)

As an update, many of the larger banks are offering online checking/debit card/ATM fraud protection that usually is full replacement ($0 loss), but it isn't under the perview of the Feds. I would expect many other banks to follow suit, as the economies of online checking are many for both individual and institution.

A club electing to participate as a member in an online checking operation such as CheckFree would open yet another user friendly avenue to facilitate revenue collection.

JMC

[Reatta Man]

Thanks, John. I was beginning to wonder if everyone in the forum had stock in the Acme Envelope company and retired from the U.S. Post office.

Joe Wiggins

[BigFella]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I NEVER give out my checking account number because if that is stolen, a thief can clear you out before you realize they have the information. </div></div>

True, but everyone who is worried about on-line fraud still sends out paper checks which *all* have your account number and your bank information right on the bottom...the vast majority of identity theft occurs from obtaining this information the old fashioned way (from your paper transactions)...and then your cleaned out! Your bank even keeps all this information on-line accessable through the Internet! If you have not signed up at your bank yet on-line go check out the requirements for doing so...you don't need more than a bank statement to do it which the bank mails to you every month! So someone could jack your account *through* your bank and look legit! and on and on and on...

Like I said, you can discuss the security of every monetary transaction all day long. None are any safer than others...but we do it because chickens and cows don't fit in a wallet!

The point is as many of us have said here and restated again by Reatta Man , the BCA needs to have some sort of on-line payment system for dues...no different than selling merch. on-line. If you choose not to use it, so be it. But I have a feeling alot of folks would pay their dues on-line.

[Reatta Man]

Has this possiblity been explored by anyone in the BCA leadership? Is there any possibility for online renewals in the near future?

Joe

[BUICK RACER]

Joe, I have tried and tried, and even have the application ready to be used online. The secure server(such as Versign) is all that is actually needed. Some people don't understand what we are missing by not using the convenience of a online membership application! Oh well, I've done all the "bugging" I can do for over 4-5 years, it's not a priority or "their" idea.

[BigFella]

Hey Roberta!

Maybe this is something we need to bring up at the feb. board meeting in San Diego? I would happily stand-up and explain or speak to all of the concerns and security issues related to e-commerce...I think this is a good idea and needs to be added to the BCA system for sure.

[Reatta Man]

Roberta,

Thanks for your efforts. Unfortunately, I have seen this before, with church and other groups. Some people just do not understand how much life has changed in the era of downsizing and electronic and Internet everything.

Many seem to think that if "I just refuse to deal with it" we can all go back to the days of Mayberry, Aunt Bee and life in the slow lane.

I'm working on a new e-mail based product at work that has taken seven months to get approved. Yet, everyone that is computer and Internet savy says it will likely increase our customer base and response by 20-30% in the first year alone. Why, then, does it take so long to get approved? Having to explain over and over again how it works, what it will do, and why we need it. When it launches and works, everyone will say "why didn't we do this a long time ago?" That is usually when I try to smile in lieu of screaming and pulling my hair out.

It really is hard to deal with old thinking sometimes. That is not a slam on anyone's age; I've found that age is much more a state of mind than a number on a birth certificate. Just look at AARP; the entire group's mission is to serve seniors, yet more and more of their products and services are available online. Why? Because seniors have the time, money and desire to learn and use the Internet. For example, why go to the bank when you can click a mouse and pay all your bills and do your banking online in a matter of seconds? And, you avoid the security and safety concerns many people worry about today, along with lousy weather, heavy traffic and rude customer service people.

Oh well, I will keep hoping the current mindset improves in the future.

Joe

[Guest imported_56BuickSuper]

When this happens, and I am sure it will, I will join the BCA. I have printed the application a few times and it never made it to the mailbox. Internet commerece is the way of the present and the future, move forward, or be left behind.

Dan

[BUICK RACER]

Dan, thanks for your feedback, as I think there are many others out there that feel as you do, make it as easy as possible to join the BCA, and enjoy the monthly Bugle, and what it is for the communication to the Club members. The Discussion Forums are a great deal for everyone, whether a BCA member or not, but the Bugle is the piece that ties us all together. Cause it includes articles and advertisements, and cars/parts for sale that those that don't join us here have access to. And there are alot of folks that don't have computers and haven't been here to see what they can gain from the commardarie and support from other Buick Club members. Some may join us, but I think there are more folks out there than we realize that don't have a computer, or don't have the chance to check this forum and others out, so we still have to have the have the paper application to support those that haven't become computer folks. So until then we have to be able to support both groups, and I hope soon we can support the computer folks to join, by making it more readily available via the internet. Enough said.

[Barney Eaton]

Related to this issue is the question why don't more members pay for three years? At a board meeting, Mike Book reported on membership, renewals, etc, and much less than half the members reup for three years.

The three year membership/renewal is a benefit to both the member and the club.

The member gets a discount, and must only go through the motions every three years. The club has less paperwork sending out renewal notices and keeping track of membership. You are also 2/3 less likely to miss an issue if you renew a little late.

Do everyone a favor and pay your membership for three years at a time.

[NTX5467]

Joe, I understand your orientations to keep moving into the future with eCommerce and such. There is no doubt that it is here to stay, but it's not whether or not you have eCommerce available, it's how it's managed, promoted, and used that puts the real value into that equation. Marketing and Customer Relations Management (CRM) are key aspects that must be done correctly or eCommerce doesn't reach the levels it needs to for optimum results.

For an organization with such diverse membership demographics as the BCA has, what might be great for some might also introduce enough added complexity for our office administrators that it might cause more stress in the workplace, perhaps, than the benefits for the members might provide. In other words, it needs to be mutually beneficial for all parties--even in a social environment where the customer is catered to regardless of the cost of that activity.

eCommerce does have some definite positives about it, but if you are a person that likes to pay cash or use money orders, how do those orientations fit in? Not everyone has or desires to use credit cards for everything. Some might also be "recovering creditcardaholics" too.

Unfortunately, there have been a good number of failed eCommerce ventures. One was the "next wave of grocery purchasing" that was a big deal in some metro markets, only to not cover costs, yet are now resurfacing in some areas. Sure, you can sit there in your pajamas and order groceries at 3:00am, but somebody's still got to be there for the delivery. Look how long it took Amazon.com to turn a solid profit, for example. Gross cash flow is one thing, net profits are another.

I still remember about 10 years ago. Our chapter did an approved chapter project of getting some mouse pads made with the BCA logo on them. Personally, I thought the prices were a little high, but everyone thought it had possibilities to make money (even though our selling price was a little higher than other similar, but not BCA-logoed, items were at the office supply chains). Many chapter members bought them and some members took them to another BCA national meet to sell at our chapter table there. Some were sold, but not to expectations. So the story goes . . . one elderly man came up and inquired as to what our members were selling. "Mouse pads" was the reply. The gentleman looked kind of funny and replied something to the effect that he didn't want mice in his house much less give them a place to sleep. The further explanations about a "mouse" being a computer part instead of a rodent didn't seem to register.

While many senior citizens have embraced the Internet and can use computers competently, there are still many in that generation who have no desires to even own a computer (just like not having a car without a column shift, as in their generation a column shift meant "upscale" from the floor shift the lower priced cars had back then). We in the BCA do not need to abandon those customers/members for any reason. Personally, I might be wrong, but having credit card capabilities and PayPal would be somewhat redundant in nature--everyone has their own "favorite" way of paying their bills (i.e., cash, money order, checks, credit cards, PayPal). I would also hope that whatever fees involved in processing PayPal items are in line with those of processing a common MasterCard or Visa or Discover transaction (AMEX users, don't feel "slighted" but those fees are or used to be several percent higher than the MC, Visa, Discover fees, which is why not everyone accepts AMEX cards). To me, having secure online credit card transactions available would be a plus.

I also concur with Barney's comments about using the "Three Year Plan" for renewals. With the Lifetime Memberships being phased out, this is the next best deal and one that is priced such that more could potentially benefit from it. These renewals can help with long term planning of expenses and related items, which can be benefical to the entire organization.

In all due respect, this subject can be replayed every quarter for infinity, but to me the bottom line would be whatever additional costs would be involved with PayPal and/or secure online credit card transactions, whether they could be done directly or would have to be factored through various banking institutions, or whatever. If the costs of doing these things will add to existing costs without really helping things, it would be a wise business decision to fully consider all of the angles instead of just a few as there are "no free rides" in the financial end of things.

By the same token, if these added costs were considered "investments in the future" and really did pay off, things could be expanded from there. Yet, at this point in time, it all could be nothing more than a "crapshoot" as to what to do and when. Not everyone feels comfortable with the famous comment that Tom Cruise made in "Risky Business" when it's THEIR money somebody's playing with. I understand the perceived frustration you might have in the workplace, Joe, in going over and over the eCommerce proposal, answering and re-answering the same questions in the approval process you're progressing through. Obviously, everybody wants to feel comfortable with what might be getting ready to happen such that no surprises happen or unforeseen problems suddenly pop up, but at some point in time, somebody's got to give the "Let's Do It" signal and let things happen. Hopefully, market conditions might not have changed in the interim and everything will work as designed, with a feedback loop of continuous improvement.

Perhaps an expansion of the current membership dues payment types can be on a future BCA Board's agenda and that full information on processing costs will be presented for the Board's consideration? I suspect that offering an online survey in this Forum might also tend to skew the results of the survey, unfortunately, so a printed survey in The Bugle might a better way to do that. When all else fails, "default" = pen, ink, and "snail".

Just some thoughts,

NTX5467

[Reatta Man]

I don't mean to keep bringing this up, but the reasons for not doing it don't make sense in today's environment. Just looking around in the world we all live in will show some obvious signs:

1. Many banks now charge customers to talk to a teller or customer service rep when handling a financial transaction. Why? Because electronic transactions are faster and cheaper for the bank and the customer.

2. Many businesses now offer products and services that would have been considered non-related to their core business years ago. For example, you can pay nearly all of your bills, do your banking and renew your auto registration in a grocery store. Now service stations sell Krispy Kreme donuts, Starbucks coffee and Subway sandwhiches, but they don't do oil changes or tune ups any more. Why? Because convenience=greater business=greater revenue, while dropping some "traditional" products or services that don't make money=reducing overhead and fixed costs.

3. Surveys can be dangerous if you are not careful about the audience. Doing a survey in the Bugle will only survey CURRENT members, not likely members. Even then the only people that will take the survey are those that have strong negative or positive emotions about the subject.

4. I can't see any way that offering electronic services such as paying dues will alienate members who choose to use a printed application and snail mail. I never envisioned dropping the mail-in option and forcing members to renew online. As has been stated before, and will probably always be true, there are a significant number of people in any particular intrerest group that don't go online or want to in the futuer.

5. While there are lots of "dot com" examples of failure in the business environment, most companies are still trying to figure out what is the next electronic "big thing" out there that will give them an edge up on the things competing for their customer's time and resources. When asked what his biggest product will be 10 years from now, Bill Gates said "it hasn't been invented yet." That alone is testimony to how fast this business climate and electronic world is changing, like it or not. To use an example from the last engineering revolution, you can make the best buggy whips in the world, but if people are buying cars rather than horse-drawn wagons, you will still go out of business.

Joe

[Guest invicta592]

Not that one guy in the UK matters to a club in the US, but I'd join today, if there was an online facility. I'd trust a secure server any day over writing my c/card details down and posting them halfway around the world. Checks aren't really an option either, as the cost of getting a dollar check is nearly as much as the subscription itself.

Dave

[NTX5467]

Joe, with all due respect, looking at "blue sky" items will always be controversial in one way or another. It's always good to look forward to predict where things might be at the "three-five years out" timeframe--that should be part of normal business planning--BUT I still have not seen mention of the financial and "make it work" issues and THOSE items alone might make PayPal not a good thing for OUR organization.

Yes, surveys can be dangerous. If you have read Bob Lutz's book "GUTS", he talks about surveys of existing and potential customers. The example given is asking people how many cupholders they would like to see in their next minivan. Of course, the more the better and most everyone will say they want the largest number on the survey. When asked if they'd pay $200.00 more for all of those extra cupholders, they'd probably say "No". The main message is that if you believe all of the information collected by surveys, as GM typically did for a while, without putting it all into perspective as to what it would cost to get there, then where you end up could be detrimental even though you are giving the customer (current and potential) what they want.

Surveying "potential" BCA members could be dangerous in this respect. If they do not join, then it could be determined that they were not really serious about joining in the first place and the survey results can be skewed somewhat from what they might have otherwise been, just as the survey results of Mr. Lutz's cupholder survey (and others any other car company might do) while at Chrysler.

Every job has it's price and those doing it have their respective tolerance levels for those things. IF PayPal would introduce added issues to the daily business climate of our office managers, they might decide they need more money to perform their functions--normal situations that we all can understand. Therefore, will the total membership be willing to pay more dues to support the greater overhead of operating the BCA for the convenience of a few members (not to mention the factoring issues previously mentioned that would further erode net profits from memberships)? Until THESE factors are researched, evaluated, resolved, AND voted on by the BCA Board, all of the "future of business" and "convenience" comments will be terribly one-sided as certain agendas in that area are touted as "what the BCA needs to do". As mentioned, how all of these things play out with respect to our sizable number of international members should also be seriously considered as any decision does not need to alienate THEM either.

It seems that this discussion has turned into something of a "promotion" for PayPal. We all like to look at "blue sky" situations as we plan for the future, but paying for that blue sky has to be evaluated also. And then there are also credible reasons for not flying as high as some might like to. There's costs involved in any business function/activity and as the current BCA members are the ones paying the bills, it's THEIR money we're dealing with. If all of those potential members that say they would like for the BCA to do thus and so DO JOIN, then they can have THEIR orientations put into the mix. There are many much more compelling reasons to joing the BCA OTHER THAN just how you pay your dues!

Respectfully,

NTX5467