Museum Board

[Guest]

Just out of curiousity, how come no one is ELECTED to the Museum Board? How come everyone serves by appointment? The Library has an elected Board.

[ronbarn]

AACA Museum Board membrs are elected, but not by the AACA Membership. The Museum President appoints a Nominating Committee, candidates are nominated and the Museum Board then elects directors from the proposed slate.

[Guest]

Father Ron. Does the nominations committee nominate MORE people than are needed to fill the vacancies or do they nominate the EXACT number needed to fill the vacanciy? hvs

[ronbarn]

Normally just the number to fill the vacancies, however one year they left a vacancy open. It was filled later with an appointment.

[ply33]

Sounds like a wonderful way to structure things so you have a "closed club". How did such a awful system come to be?<P>------------------<BR><A HREF="http://www.ply33.com" TARGET=_blank>Plymouth: The First Decade</A>

[Guest]

Tod ~ Funny, I was thinking the same thing. I was rather certain that they used the old style Russian election, but I asked my question to confirm my belief. <P>The wonderful part of this method of electing, I prefer the term anointing, the Board is that you get a varied cross section of "Yes men." People like Father Ron and Roy Graden eventually get fed up and move on. Others have resigned rather than have their integrity compromised. I think it is wonderful to have a man like Bob Cirilli elected, but will he be like a child crying in the wilderness within that group. The Museum, The Board and everything else connected with the Museum is dominated by one person. He makes the rules and pulls the strings. <P>But that is just my opinion. I could be wrong, but if I am so are a lot of others.<BR> hvs

[Guest SalG (Sal Grenci)]

Howard, Don't hold back your true feelings. It seem that you have hit on a subject that they do not want the light of day on. SalG

[Guest]

Since the Museum so frequently solicits funding from the membership, shouldn't the membership have a voice in the Museum? And, since the Museum is a financial partner, similar to the L&RC, with AACA, shouldn't the membership be represented in the same manner as the Library; they have an election? Also, I asked "how come" there is no election, not "how do" people serve?<P>[This message has been edited by CaddyX5 (edited 12-06-2000).]<p>[This message has been edited by CaddyX5 (edited 12-06-2000).]

[Guest]

Sal ~ You know me. I am SO reticent to speak my mind. Now don't go telling me that there isn't much to speak Howard <P><p>[This message has been edited by hvs (edited 12-06-2000).]

[Guest]

Am I to presume - since there have been no replies -- that no one has the answer as to "how come" the Museum Board members are not elected by the membership? Surely, there must have been some conversation by someone in the beginning. I am just curious what took place when the word "election" was brought up and replaced with "appointed". Seems a fair question, don't ya think? What makes the Museum different from the Library?

[IndianaCarGuy]

I'd like to know, too, how and why the Library and Museum exist as separate units, and why more input from members is not used in selecting a board. It leads to a more difficult situation, true, to do large elections (sorry if being topical) but it prevents a lot of bad feelings and bad decisions from self-serving and autocratic individuals. the higher up a rotten apple is in the box, the quicker it will rot the rest.<P>Robert S.

[Guest rcirilli]

Robert, I can tell you a little with regard to your questions. The library and Museum are separate mainly do to tax law. AACA is not a tax exempt organization and can't be by code. If the Library and the Museum were a part of the Corp that is AACA all of their receipts would be subject to Federal and State taxes. That wouldn't be good.

[Guest]

Robert ~ I'm afraid that our rotten apples may be pretty close to the top of the box.<BR>Even worse, our rotten apples have their own following of sycophants.<P>For those of you that read this, and who might be offended by my candor and you feel this is directed at you, then you are part of the problem.<P>Howard

[IndianaCarGuy]

Well,...that makes sense about the library and museum being separate due to taxes. It also makes sense to keep the library as a part of a publishing and car club,..that makes it a usable resource,...all I am really encouraging is making the reason for the museum not one of just showing off cars, but to have it exist as a part of a series of programs to demonstrate and disply restoration, conservation, and develop programs for training members, museum staff and interested individuals in preservation and developing better methods to preserve autos. <BR> <BR>I have taken coursework in preservation of metals, for guns and arms, worked as an armourer in the Army, and also taken courses and classwork for textiles conservation, museum registration and taught both docents and tour guides....I have worked on and driven everything from a 1904 Cadillac to a 1932 Stutz. The reason I got involved in this forum was to try and get it across to people that there are lots of people who have professional experience in museums and in museum development, and that it appears that there are a lot of people being left out of decisions,... I do have one last question/concern,...when are the people involved going to involve museum professionals in the development of this program, or reveal what they are doing to make it more professional? I can talk automotive history as well as anyone I know, and yet, because the majority of museums I know of involved in automobiles hire from a "good ol' boy" network rather than recruiting from professional museum organizations, A lot of us are moving towards more modern museum developments and programming, and I am personally concerned that an organization I have been involved with off and on since 1982 is failing to keep up, and will fall flat on it's face due to the lack of museum "Moxie" they retain in their staff. I had my say,..and I thank the one person who has patiently listened to my complaints,..lol,..who will remain nameless, but I think he knows who he is.<P>Robert S.

[Guest]

Thanks R. Cirilli for the tax law information. I appreciate the fact has offered a response to the original question -- but ---<BR> Your response does not address "how come" the Museum Board is not held for election, but is an appointed Board. I understand the tax laws; I understand the AACA and the Library and the Museum as entities. I understand the tax-exempt stuff vs. the AACA non-tax-exempt stuff.<BR> But I do not understand why the Museum Board is not a group of nominated and voted upon by the membership (i.e. election) folks in the same manner as the Library Board. 40lc is 40lc whether it is the Library or the Museum. "How come" one has an elected Board and the other does not?<BR> Also, "IndianaCarGuy" -- I like your style -- you've relayed some VERY key information and made some very KEY points -- Keep up the awareness training. Your intention to be helpful is to be commended. My only question: Can you also teach apples to read?<P><BR>

[IndianaCarGuy]

Nope,...potaters maybe,..at least they got eyes. I will make one further comment about apples, which I sorta feel I gave a bum rap. Johnny Appleseed planted a whole bunch of apple seeds, and they grew to spread across the whole nation. Isaac Newton may not have been bonked by an apple,..but the idea was a good one, and I don't think Ben Franklin was exaggerating too much about the properties of the apple in keeping one out of medical distress,...it was very common to use apple cider to cook rather than water in colonial times, the cider was often far less contaminated than the water, and if you haven't tried it with a potroast,...you are truly missing something grand (not to mention hard cider), well,..I think we could learn a lot from apples,....I just hope it doesn't happen that they have to do a "Humpdy Dumpty" to get down to our level and listen,..or read. I appreciate your comments, and I hope that it helps,...I feel a bit like that Appleseed guy,...I'll never know what grows in the places I have trod.<P>Robert Swim

[Guest]

Well, its been two weeks now, so I guess I'll ask my question again. I know someone out there has the answer ....<BR> How come the Museum Board is not an elected Board? I got the part about nominations and "elections" among the reigning Board members. Frankly, it sounds like the old Blackball routine. Nonetheless, I am curious also, RonBarn, regarding one of your answers (now don't take offense - I just don't seem to get this) - What is the difference between an "elected" Board member and an "appointed" Board Member? Seems to me if number of nominations offered and the seats open are equal, then the nominated people who subsequently get "elected" are then, in reality, appointed. Are write-in votes allowed in the election? Can a person loose in the election once nominated? <BR> How come the Museum Board is not elected in the same manner as the Library Board and the National Board? Anybody?? Hello??? Yoohoo?

[D Binger]

Sounds like the "GOOD OL' BOY SYSTEM". Huh<BR>

[IndianaCarGuy]

Change does not take place overnight, and there must be reason to alter things. I'd rather ask how many members there are, and where one can get a look at any proceedings that are given out. I assume they have an agenda, and release some form of notes on decisions and proceedings, and what needs to be ongoing.<P>Yeah,..I also know that not all proceedings are public, out of necessity, and that many times, closed meetings are a lot easier to do, since many votes and decisions are parlayed or handled by turning a vote over to a couple of like-minded members. <P>I do hope there are at least a listing of what is being done, and what is needed, and that that will at least be disseminated to members.<P>RS

[Guest]

RS ~ GOOD LUCK ~ hvs

[IndianaCarGuy]

Yeah,..I know, and I won't be shocked when it doesn't happen,..lol!

[John N. Packard]

For readers of these museum threads on the DF who would like more background information on the museum project, I call your attention to the museum web pages on this site.<P>jnp

[IndianaCarGuy]

Thank you for reminding people there is some ongoing and very good information on the museum here. It is, however, more on the process of building the structure, and not in making the museum a serviceable and sustaining organization in and of itself. It is to these concerns I think the most communication is missing, the details of how the museum will serve the members and the public and provide an outlet for educational benefit which will further attract business funding and increase interest in the hobby.<P>RS

[Guest]

Indiana ~ I think there is a kind of "Build it and they will come" mentality associated with this Museum. I believe that is the reason for the absence of any information such as you seek. ~ hvs<p>[This message has been edited by hvs (edited 12-21-2000).]

[Ron Green]

For everyones information I just read a article in Old Car's Weekly or Cars & Parts that said the National Corvette Museum in Bowling Green was having money problems due to the fact there are no major sponsors and the revenue from the sale of tickets is not enough to pay the expenses. Their museum cost 11 millon to build back in the early 90's and they have no endowment to keep in running. They are in search of a major sponsor to bail it out and keep it going.

[Ron Green]

Sorry, I wanted to post the above under the museum endowment discussion.

[Guest SalG (Sal Grenci)]

hvs, Build it and they will come! Isn't that from the "Field of Dreams" baseball meeting w/ Kevin Costner, et al. SalG

[Guest]

Sure is Sal. I never claimed all of my material was original. ~ hvs<P><p>[This message has been edited by hvs (edited 12-22-2000).]

[IndianaCarGuy]

ALL museums who fail to put forward outreach and educational programs in schools, etc. are hurting,...FUNDING AND SPONSORSHIP depends upon suiting programs which fit the criteria of the endowment institution, that is why museums are forced to HIRE staff to interpret GRANT REGULATIONS REQUIREMENTS and write and COMPETE ( yes, Virginia, there is competition, but Santa Claus retired, inasfar as museums are concerned).<P>I can't make this much plainer,..go to the local library and look up GRANTS funding.<BR>Large corporations are not courted, as are politicians, they have money available as grants to ORGANIZATIONS WHO FIT THE CRITERIA for non-profit funding.<P><BR>A small proviso you may want to look into is this one, I have read it,..oh,....about a bazillion times in the last few years. <P>"Organizations funded must have adequate staff and programming in place to provide both public benefit and fulfill the guidelines entailed within grant requirements"<P>I have never seen the line "OH! Pretty cars get our dollars! How much do you need?" in any corporate endowment I ever read. <P>Lessee,..do that mean that a museum must provide classes, programs, outreach, structured educational content, perform research, publish research, demonstrate adequate facilities to provide scholarly research, assist in organizing and holding artifacts in not only a PRESENTABLE, but USEFUL and SYSTEMATIC manner in keeping with standard museum practices and providing support to both the needs of scholars, and informal researchers?????????????<BR>Heck no,....Why bother? It's just a museum.<P>Ask a silly question,...get ignored.<P>RS<P>

[IndianaCarGuy]

I'm sorry,.....I get carried away when I realize that there are a lot of people in this world who don't have to deal with non-profit and funding crises everyday, and who have never spent 4 months in grant-writing just to see the request cut by a third due to endowment proceeds not meeting projected scale (Don't ask me to explain that, I can't!).<P>Am just wondering what it will take to make people realize that a museum is not just a high-class storage facility with shiny toys. Yeah, I get carried away,..I get a bit mean,..and I also get very blunt,....take a look around, people,... public television is a perfect example,...they get funding,..and how? By producing a product which can educate AND sell,...and it is a VERY,VERY<BR>competitive market for those dollars. If I have offended anyone,...go out and prove me wrong. I only wish I was.<P>RS

[John N. Packard]

RS,<BR> Why is it that the only worthwhile programming on public televison is aired during the fund raising times and is continually interrupted with interminable appeals for money?<P>jnp

[Guest]

Indiana ~ There is one word that will eventually bring home to our Museum fanatics that what they are trying to do will not succeed in the long term.<P>BANKRUPTCY!!! <P>Remember, you read it here on December 22, 2000. And a Merry Christmas to you too.<P>~ hvs

[Guest]

John ~ We refer to the fund raising time on Public Radio and TV as "The Begging and Pleading Hour."<P>In AACA we have just completed the "Begging and Pleading Decade." <P>Stay tuned for many more years of the same! <P>~ hvs

[IndianaCarGuy]

I don't find that the only worthwhile programming on public television is on during fundraising,...it is annoying, but effective, and the point I was making is that CORPORATE funding is nearly as difficult and requires substantial preparation AND a SIGNIFICANT demonstration of purpose and structure on behalf of the museum. Ya don't get money to TRY and build one.<P>RS<P>Merry Christmas, HVS,..... Now I feel like the ghost of Christmas future!<p>[This message has been edited by IndianaCarGuy (edited 12-22-2000).]

[Al Smeraldo]

Ok I agree with most of what has been said on this thread. Now what do we do about it?

[Guest]

Al ~ I wish I knew. I fear we are talking to ourselves. At best the Museum leadership MIGHT be looking in. The question is are they even considering that anything said on here has any merit. I don't know, but their absence of comment does lead one to conclude that we are spitting into the wind. ~ hvs

[IndianaCarGuy]

As long as we are the only ones talking about this stuff,...nothing will get done, and no one will ever say one way or another what has, or has not been covered, discussed or even considered.<BR> <BR>It is safe to assume that either none of the issues here seem worthwhile, or that no one is reading it. Only when enough people seem to feel that any of the issues here are worthwhile, or enough people get on here to demonstrate they have an interest, will it become a bit hard to ignore. It could happen,...It may require a bit of discussion <BR>with others outside this forum, or pointing it out to other people through E-mails or word of mouth,...It could happen. Weirder miracles have happened.<P>If only 5-6 people make comments here, or even acknowledge this forum has anything to contribute,...I would ignore it, too. I think myself and Howard have probably said,..at times,..too much and do not encourage others to speak to issues they have concerns about, due to the appearance of seeming too radical and oppositional to the peoples upstairs. I don't oppose anything, except maybe getting into a situation from which there is no option but going belly-up as far as a museum goes, and I am just really, really afraid that is what will happen if people don't take the time to see what is REALLY GOING ON insofar as contemporary museum practices.<P>If you guys have a staff of people doing museum stuff,..who are they? If you don't,..why not? Buildings do NOT come first, wake up.<P>RS<p>[This message has been edited by IndianaCarGuy (edited 12-23-2000).]

[Guest]

Indiana, you may be right. Why don't you and I drop off of this thread and see if it has a life of its own. If it drops by the wayside everyone will know that either nobody really cares about the subject or are reluctant to express thoughts which might run counter to those of our leadership.<BR>Heaven forbid that anyone else should make waves or question authority.<P>In either case, I'm outta here! ~ ~ hvs

[novaman]

Indiana and Howard, I've been reading this the whole time. I've been agreeing with ya the whole time to. I just didn't have the knowledge of all of what was going on and didn't have any solutions to offer either. I agree that if this don't change the museum is going to sink. <P>I'm not positive but I think the water might already be over the 1st bulkhead like it happened on the Titanic. Just my observation.

[IndianaCarGuy]

Ok,..we'll see what happens,..all you other folks keep this going if you like what was said here. Maybe we can't do anything,..but we can tell them our concerns.<P>Now I can get back to the technical stuff and<BR>looking for a car who needs a new owner,..<P>RS<p>[This message has been edited by IndianaCarGuy (edited 12-24-2000).]