Bob Lutz quote from our newspaper

[BigFella]

I know this article probably hits alot of newspapers but it may have been overlooked. There is an artical in todays San Diego newspaper in the auto section about the new Pontiac Bonneville GXP. It talks about the new V8 GXP and how it relates to the new GTO. The styling, options, etc. Here is what Bob Lutz said about the old Bonneville which alot of us have said:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> It's like an attractive woman with too much makeup and a not too tasteful dress." Bob Lutz </div></div>

Can you tell he was a Marine? I even own a 2002 SSEI and I agree! Lots and lots of plastic everywhere! Of course my wife for some reason loves that and all the gadgets it has. I showed her the Buicks when we were shopping for this car and she kept saying what all of us hear...old people cars (we're early 30's)...full bench, long straight dash, no HUD, and on and on...oh well, maybe the next car will be one of the new Buicks! woohoo! Go Bob!

What caught my attention was another quote from the middle of the article again from Bob Lutz:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The Pontiac brand has been in decline because it hasn't been properly nourished over the years with exciting products. But we're out to fix that. We've committed our resources to get things done right. At GM we now have our trucks done, Cadillac done and we're working on Pontiac and Chevy simultaneously. Buick will take a bit longer for the rebirth of a great american brand. </div></div>

That last sentence is what we all want to hear! Let them take their time and do it right. They have shown that the Buick lineup can grow and that changes are coming in the near future. woohoo!

Bob Lutz also mentioned that the Aztek and Montana hardly created excitement. :-) He talks a little about the fact that GM should not be trying to revive an old car but to be better they have to aim at shooting down the best rivals.

woof!

[rocketraider]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The Pontiac brand has been in decline because it hasn't been properly nourished over the years with exciting products. But we're out to fix that.</div></div>

What a shame the Corporation couldn't have seen that with Oldsmobile.

I will believe till my dying day that what was done to Oldsmobile was contrived and intentional, and I blame Roger Smith and his Saturn for it. I repeat, the man should have served prison time.

[NTX5467]

Glenn, LOTS of GM wasn't properly nourished back then. When Saturn was being born AND Cadillac was being shored up the first time, I don't believe it was Roger that was a real culprit, it was that other GM Board member with "Neutron" for a nickname.

I believe that Saturn was the right thing to do and that Roger, in his own way, did good with it and the market timing was good too. It gave USA buyers something to buy as their beloved Valiants/Darts, Novas, etc. were no longer being produced. Saturn got both ends of the buyer spectrum, old on fixed incomes that were highly traditional USA brand car buyers and those younger people just coming into the market that would have looked at a foreign brand. At that time, it was highly unusual for any GM division to have a "birthday party" at the plant, but it happened with Saturn bigtime for several years (remember the television commercials of Saturn back then???).

I will not doubt that Saturn might have taken some sales from other GM brands, but the significant thing to me is that GM proved that they could build a vehicle that would take sales from the import brands PLUS be at the top of the JDPowers surveys CONSISTENTLY. The fact that Saturn was totally new and the only items it might share with other GM cars was some maintenance and tune-up parts and was a totally separate business entity were plusses, from what I saw back then. Only thing is that Saturn, too, was starved for money and support as other GM divisions were back then. Saturn was controversial in many respects within GM and the dealer network, but it was a general boost to GM and the car market as a whole. It was started with a "clean sheet of paper" in all aspects and that was good--instead of "adapating from existing platforms" as is the typical GM orientation.

Remember when everyone was saying "Happy Birthday, Buick" on the video at the Saturday evening presentations? Lutz added something to the effect " . . . The best is yet to come" to his particular birthday wishes. I saw that as hugely significant.

Just some thoughts,

NTX5467

[Guest elk93001]

I agree with you wholeheartedly Rocketraider!!! Saturn is just smoke and mirrors marketing...plastic panels on a spaceframe ala Fiero and a somewhat similar front end to a 1980's Olds. They initially called themelves "a different kind of car company" but now are they really so different?.. Are they in the black yet? or are they still milking the rest of the GM to survive. They cried for a mid-size car and got it..they wanted an SUV, they got one. They want a minivan...they're getting one. What's next a Saturn truck?

Maybe Olds should have been (and Buick should be) the squeaky wheel that Saturn has been.

I have a GM car from every division except Pontiac and Saturn.. I am in pursuit of a Pontiac right now for my collection, but never a Saturn.

[86 2dr.ltd]

Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It's like an attractive woman with too much makeup and a not too tasteful dress." Bob Lutz

Pontiac is not an attractive woman. Its a Turkey Vulture ! Pontiac is a packaging company. The Bonnevelle is and has been a Buick LeSabre with more gidget/gadjets. Now its going to be a Aurora with "too much makeup and a not too tasteful dress." Hurray Pontiac! Stealing must be "excitement"

Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Pontiac brand has been in decline because it hasn't been properly nourished over the years with exciting products.

You got to be kidding me ! Pontiac has gotten all the best that GM divisions has had to offer. How much more suckling have they needed. Pontiac has done nothing of its own besides repackaging since the Fiero and that wasnt even its own drivetrain. How long can this company ride out the old GTO ego ? well obviously it worked, Their still here, complete with beeks and getting a new GTO.

" We've committed our resources to get things done right. At GM we now have our trucks done, Cadillac done - "

Cadillacs done alright

"and we're working on Pontiac and Chevy simultaneously." giving them all the Buick and Oldsmobile goodies

"Buick will take a bit longer for the rebirth of a great american brand." Just like all old projects when we already have taken on to many, will get scraped and forgoten about in the end.

[decembro]

Wow, I never realized that Saturn bashing was the new thing. I worked for Saturn retailers for years, have owned several. My son owns one, my nephew, neice and sister own them. They aren't perfect cars, but why are they to blame for Oldsmobile going belly up? I've owned several Oldsmobiles before. Some were good, some not. So what? Should Packard, Studebaker, Hudson, etc. have been kept alive? It seems to me the consumer created the demand (and lack thereof) for the cars that were sold. If Hudson built Grand Ams they'd still be around. And, no I don't think Grand Ams are particularly good cars. We have at least one in the shop EVERY day.

By the way, Saturn IS a different kind of car company. Maybe if Oldsmobile had been, THEY would be around instead.

[Guest elk93001]

Saturn may try to be, but it is everything that an import is not!!!

I remember reading somewhere in 1998 that they still hadn't made money to re-pay its investment...how long would it take????

Unfortunately, resources spent on Saturn could have been spent on re-vamping other divisions. Instead "Let's just create another division and maybe people will forget that GM makes it" seemed to be the credo that GM subscribed to. Or if you don't like that, how about "lets paint the chrome black, put a few stripes on, maybe some plastic cladding to protect the mud flaps, and call it 'Euro' or something like that" This kind of sums up the mentality (maybe harshly). The concern I have as a Buick fan has many facets, 1.) Is this new found excitement for building great cars and making them something I want to buy something that is genuine or only a horse and pony show because of Bob Lutz? 2.)Is Bob Lutz the only reason why GM is gung ho about building good cars ? 3.) If it is, What happens if Bob Lutz leaves? 4.) If Buick is still a part of GM's "plan" will there be enough energy to execute a successful plan before or even after Lutz retires.

I'm neutral on Lutz so far. I know that he is a car guy, but that's it.

My question to you is How is Saturn a DIFFERENT kind of car company when they want everything that everyone else at GM has? How will that make them different?

I'm not bashing, just questioning GM's ability to create competitive cars.

[55PackardGuy]

decembro,

As a die-hard Packard fan (from my earliest years of viewing the world from the back seat of a '55 Clipper Custom) I appreciate your mention of the passing of this marque. The question of whether "the market decided" whether a brand would live or die is an inadequate explanation, in my view. It assumes that "product demand" necessarily follows "the right product" and both combine to produce a successful company. It does not account for a myrial of other factors that keep a manufacturer in business. There was probably a sufficient number of people wishing to buy a real Packard in '57 to keep the company afloat--if Packard had been a reasonably healthy company. The factors that caused the end of the corporation were so numerous that they have, literally, filled books. In particular, Packard lacked sufficient dealer and customer service support, adequate marketing resources, and an efficient production facility. They could not adequately service their customers, or market to new buyers or even meet the demand for delivery of their cars.

Packard probably put too much emphasis on engineering and ignored the rest of the marketing "pipeline" that could have kept them in the black. For those who don't know, Packard produced a brand new "clean sheet" V8 engine, a completely unique (and to this day unequaled) full torsion bar suspension, and a new limited slip differential during their last two years ('55-'56). The cars received rave reviews from auto magazines, particularly for the new suspension system. But Packard had a cramped production facility (presumably bought to save money), a discouraged dealer and customer service network, little advertising budget... and no other divisions to "keep them alive" until they could get back on track.

[ranchero]

elk93001 - "every division"? How do you like the Hummer for running down to the 7-11? Well, your Saab can deal with the hills in winter. I'm waiting for the Holden El Camino; I figure it must only be a year or two behind the Holden GTO.

Saturns are for people who hate cars but have to have them. They are easy to ignore. The cars are average at best. The dealers are nice to teachers and nurses; everyone is treated the same ("fairly").

As for Buick - I'm waiting for a two door hardtop coupe. Until then, any of several non-GM cars will do just fine. Lutz knows this. I think he alone at GM remembers the social significance of owning a Buick. He alone knows the respect we have for a Riviera, an early Skylark, a GSX or a fastback Roadmaster coupe. When a great and pretty Riviera comes back I'll be back to GM; German coupes can fill the Buick niche in my fleet until then.

- Ranchero -

[rocketraider]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">By the way, Saturn IS a different kind of car company. Maybe if Oldsmobile had been, THEY would be around instead. </div></div>

Oldsmobile WAS a different kind of car company until GM neutered it by establishing "brand marketing groups" in place of separate Divisions with some autonomy. They were known as the engineering and experimental Division of GM. Their engineering staff was second to none, and luring an engineer away from Oldsmobile was considered quite a coup by the other Divisions and carmakers.

GM would have done better to have invested the engineering and styling money that was put into the Saturn startup in their existing product. They had the talent and ability to build great cars. The bean counters strangled any of that, and the company produced boring, mediocre cars to their ultimate peril. I'm convinced someone on 14th floor realised that Saturn could not be successfully introduced without eliminating another Division, and Oldsmobile became the sacrificial lamb. You cannot convince me it wasn't done intentionally.

[Guest elk93001]

Perhaps my so-called "Saturn-bashing" is misunderstood.?????? (if you want the answer to my comments scroll down to the bottom, otherwise read on.)

Can anyone guess how long it will be before Saturn wants their own H2? How 'bout a nice 3800 V6 in the L-series or is that engine too obsolete? If Saturn is for people that hate cars, but have to have them....why is it getting a minivan, an SUV, a convertible at the same time as Buick????? Why doesn't the S-series/Ion suffice anymore? Maybe they're nice to school teachers, nurses etc. But just give me a decent deal on a QUALITY car that I WANT to drive and don't have the whole staff say a cheer for me as I get in the car (I know that one dealer does this).

I just don't understand the mentality of creating another division, when the existing, long-established divisions needed help.

It's like owning a fixer-upper house that needs work in every room (paint-peeling, drywall cracking, plumbing and electrical problems etc. you get the picture), and the money you have saved up goes to put a nice addition on this same house, just so you have a room for your plasma tv. The problems that existed before in the fixer upper still exist.

GM cried poverty, GM pointed the finger to Gov't regulations, the imports the labor unions etc. They even brought in the Japanese to co-produce a car (NUMMI) in the hopes of finding the "holy grail." Did they find it? Who knows?

I can't wait for an exciting 2 door BUICK myself, but dragging feet isn't going to make me walk in the showroom door, neither is poor quality, which is another thing they chose to ignore. But I just don't see the point of introducing a Buick/Saturn product. People in the late 70's complained about Chevy engines in their Buicks and Oldsmobiles, why would I want to pay $15-20000 more for a Buick that shares Saturn components? It smells like brand management of the 21st Century at GM. .....is Buick next to be bumped like Olds? As a Buick fan this is my real beef.

PS. When I become governor of California, I'll buy a Hummer, convert it to Hydrogen and then................drive it to 7-11.

As far as the Saab goes...as long as it is a V4, with the igniton key in the console and has a functional stereo that can play "Take a Chance" by ABBA..I guess going up and down hills in the winter will be just like driving in Sweden...I'm fine with that

[86 2dr.ltd]

Saturn bashing is nothing new, its an old pass time of anyone who likes cars. In our family we have a saying. When we are driving down the road in our LSS bored and stumble across one of those ugly modern day Yugo's. "Saturn sucks"

I remember the hoopla comercials when they were starting up but they never showed a car, just hype. Then I got a look at one and was speachless from the let down, just stuned. So I forgot all about Saturn, why not, surely a car company without stylists making cheap cars was going the way of Yugo. Which they would have, EXCEPT WE HAVE A ALTERNATIVE ! Kill Oldsmobile the oldest car in the States. Cut the Riviera, cut the Camaro, threaten the Vette, cut all 2dr.coupes except the beloved "B U I C K" powered monty carlo. Remove all sportiness from Buick and concentrate on the B U I C K powered Grand Prix and Bonneville. Oh yea, now we can bring back the Impala and put the B U I C K engine in that while were at it.

Yea Lutz Buick is going to take longer alright, but try to sell them when you have giving all the best pieces to the apple pie brands and hired either bazaar or tired stylists to "draw" over at Buick. Then if they do come up with a car with some sex appeal whose going to buy it when its got the same power plant as Grandma's applepie bowtie.

Buick trucks coming soon to a dying dealership near you.