Response from FireAde

[Guest]

Recently, there have been some questions raised about the integrity of FireAde 2000 and the program offered to the AACA. I will try to address each of the posted concerns.

1)<span style="font-weight: bold">Museum Fund Raiser:</span> FireAde 2000 was approved by the judging committee after a review and demonstration was presented in Georgia last summer. The idea of a contribution to the museum was not suggested or even known by the manufacturer of FireAde at that time. It was offered by Ed Price, the president of the local distributor and a former national president of the Plymouth 4 & 6 Cylinder Owner's Club, after a visit to the museum site in Hershey.

2)<span style="font-weight: bold">Quality of Product:</span> It is surprising Mr. HVS attacked the quality of FireAde without knowing much about the product or ever trying it. FireAde 2000 is used by many major airports, municipal fire departments and has a UL Listing for both the U.S. and Canada. It is also NFPA 18 approved. In Europe, it is replacing the use of foam because less is needed to put the fire out and cleanup is much easier. FireAde 2000 is the only product on the market that removes free radicals (poisons) from the air as the fire is extinguishing. It is biodegradable in the environment (Halon has been suspect for years) and will not damage surrounding motors and switches like dry power. It will also not damage paint or chrome.

For more detailed information (printed or verbal) please contact Mr.Ron Thames, the manufacturer, at nlinfo@fireserviceplus.com or log onto his website at www.fireserviceplus.com. You can also contact Bailey & Price at baileyprice@msn.com.

3)<span style="font-weight: bold">Electrical Fires:</span> The reason we do not put a Class C (electrical rating) on our extinguishers is because it cannot be used on home electrical fires without cutting off the electrical current. Since FireAde 2000 is liquid based, current may flow back to the user. Nothing will extinguish an electrical fire while there is still current flowing through the wires. Once the electricity is turned off, the fire usually becomes a Class A type fire.

FireAde 2000 can be used for low voltage electrical equipment fires that are found in vehicles, boats, etc. These electrical fires are different from electrical fires found in your home. They usually result in burning insulation in the engine or driver's compartment.

We believe FireAde 2000 is the best fire control medium on the market today. It is the only technology that offers 6 products in 1:

FIRE FIGHTING MEDIUM

COOLING MEDIUM

HAZARDOUS SPILL CONTROL MEDIUM

TOXIC SMOKE SCRUBBER

VAPOR CONTROL MEDIUM

BIOREMEDIATION MEDIUM

If there are additional questions or comments, please contact us. Thank you.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Ed Price, President</span>

<span style="font-weight: bold">Bailey & Price, Inc.</span>

[Ron Green]

Thanks for posting. So lets assume that the fire/aid works as described. The AACA rules state that you need to carry a 10-B:C, 2 1/2 lb dry chemical or 10 lb carbon dioxide type extinguishers and the fire/aid is around a 1 pound unit. I must assume that the small fire/aid will put out the same vehicle fire as the these extinguishers?

Is the fire/aid AACA approved for electrical fires as mandated by the AACA? I do own one of these and am a little concerned in regards to its size.

[R W Burgess]

Thank you Mr. Price for explaining your product to us. I'm sorry you didn't know about this earlier as our imaginations run away from us every now and then when we're not informed about certain things. The electrical non-rating was informative. Wayne Burgess

[6219_Rules]

I second Ron's appreciation. I have been looking for a good all purpose extinguisher for some time and have followed this and the previous thread carefully. I would also like to know about the pound limitation both as compensorary to the AACA rules and in its effectiveness. While I make absolutely certain the engine is clean, you cannot guard against every possible eventuality. I would like to know that the extinguisher I purchase will protect my valuable car and myself in the event of a catastrophic event. Thank you so much for your detailed post.

[Guest]

Mr Price,

I challanged your product because we members [not the judging committee] knew nothing about it and were able to find out nothing beyond, "The judging Committee approved it" and "NASCAR drivers use it." Frankly, that wasn't enough to convince many of us.

Why it took the better part of a month for someone in an official capacity within the AACA to contact you for public clarification is beyond me. That is not your fault, but don't fault me for raising the issue. Had no one raised the issue, none of us would have learned anything beyond "The judging Committee approved it" and "NASCAR drivers use it."

Frankly, NASCAR drivers don't impress me all that much and I question the technical expertise of the AACA judging committee. I admit I am not technically qualified to judge NASCAR but I am qualified to judge the judging committee's technical expertise.

I do not doubt that your product is used in airports and by fire departments, but do they use it in little 1 lb containers. I doubt it. I have recently experienced an alternator fire in a Suburban which ignited components around it, and my 2 1/2 lb. Halon put it out. Will your 1 lb. unit do the same?

I own one of your 1lb extinguishers, but I bought it to support the museum, not with the idea of replacing my Dry Chemical and Halon extinguishers. I carry one of each in each vehicle and in each trailer. Your product resides in the kitchen under the sink.

Now please come back and give us your expert answer. Will the 1 lb FireAde provide the same fire extinguishing effectiveness as a 2 1/2 pound Dry Chemical or Halon extinguisher?

I feel it is my duty to ask hard questions.

Thank you in advance for your expected response.

HVS Howard V. Scotland, Jr.

My credentials:

Past President of AACA 1988 & 1989, former AACA VP of Technical Matters, former VP of AACA Class Judging, former Chairman of the AACA Judging Committee and former Chairman of Judges Training.

[RoadsterRich]

Mr. Price,

Thank you for taking the time to clarify some points.

Ultimately I do not believe there is a question as to the extinguishing agents ability to extinguish fires. The concerns are over capacity, and safety, not just with the Fireade, but with any extinguisher. Unfortunately for Fireade and yourself amongst others, the concerns raised far greater questions.

Many of us, admittedly through ignorance have assumed that whatever fire extinguishers that AACA requires would be sufficient for our need with regards to antique cars. The Fireade issue has raised questions regarding what may or may not be sufficient to protect our cars and our families. While the discussions may be perceived as attacks, they are in my belief, rather a challenge to those with the technical expertise to educate the membership on the effectiveness, and effects of using 'approved' extinguishers, as well as to provide the membership with a better understanding of what constitutes the approval process.

The bottom line is not whether a 1 lb FireAde extinguisher can put out a fire, but rather will it put out a fire of the scale and magnitude typical of an automotive fire in a vintage vehicle, or tow vehicle. References to who uses products speaks only to the effectiveness of the media, not to the question at hand, which is...

<span style="font-weight: bold"> [color:"red"] Is the capacity of the recommended device adequate to protect the lives and property of the membership of this organization when applied to fires in antique cars and tow vehicles? </span>

Richard Lancaster

Member AACA

[nearchoclatetown]

Mr. Price, thank you for your responce. I think our speculation about your product was fueled by the lack of knowledge, our knowledge. I originally ask if anyone was familiar with the product. I knew a few things about your product, but through all the discussion not one person was familiar with it. I did find websites explaining the differance between halon and halotron. Your product sounds very impressive to say the least, but I'm still wondering about it's size. It would certainly be easier to carry in any vehicle, not just our antiques, but is it big enough? And I'm still wondering why we weren't informed of it's existance and availability from the museum. If nothing else we've all learned something.

[Guest]

In the Georgia demonstration, which I was not able to attend, it was determined by those present that a 1 lb. canister of FireAde 2000 will extinguish the same size fire as a 2 1/2 lb. dry chemical extinguisher. Ron Thames, the scientist who invented FireAde 2000 and other professional use fire retardants, will be contacting Bill Smith today to determine what additional technical information needs to be supplied to club members.

As comparison information, a major American power plant did a test on 15,000 gallons of burning hydrolic transformer oil. It took 125 U.S. gallons of foam to extinguish the fire in 28 minutes. Conversely, it took 10 U.S. gallons of FireAde 2000 and the fire was extinguished in 1 minute and 24 seconds.

As I do not know Mr. Thames schedule, I ask that you be patient for his online response.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Ed Price</span>

<span style="font-weight: bold">Bailey & Price, Inc.</span>

[6219_Rules]

Dear Mr. Price. Thank you for the response. I know we all appreciate your efforts and at least I can rest assured that your extinguisher will work within the confines of the car hobby. I am impressed with its abilities and look forward to learning more about it technically.

However, you will understand that many of us have been promised much only to recieve little. Scepticism is our only defense, and while I do not pretend to apologise for it, I hope you understand that many will be watching for the data when it comes in. Hopefully the Dandy Dinky will stand up for its name.

Thank you.

[Ron Green]

Quote, "As I do not know Mr. Thames schedule, I ask that you be patient for his online response".

I thought I would bring this back to the top. Hopefully I will be giving mine to the fire department next week just to see how it performs on a medium size vehicle fire. Pending the fire departments schedule with the testing facility. Also plan on attending if permitted.

[R W Burgess]

Thanks for the update, Ron. Wayne