1941 Ford Super DeLuxe Woody Wagon roof material

[tommyzed]

Hi. Does anyone know what the correct roof material is, and where to get it, for my 1941 Woody Wagon? All of the "Cobra grain" that i've seen, is way too heavy for the car. The original top doesn't really have any pattern at all. All of the material that I have seen, is a very coarse pattern and looks like shiny plastic or vinyl, which looks nothing like what's on the car. I would appreciate any help I can get. My car was in the last scene of the movie "Something Wild", if anyone saw it. 

Thanks.  Tom

[46 woodie]

Tommy, the correct top material for your car is what Ford called, M-2600-G Brown artificial leather. Finding the correct material is a different story. We just had a top material discussion last weekend at the Woodies in the Cove Woodie Show and it is a discussion at every Woodie show I attend. Ever since LeBaron-Bonney closed shop the 66" wide material material is un-available anywhere, believe me, myself and several other Woodie Club members have searched to no avail. If you have the time you can research this website and others, as this subject has been discussed many times. 

[46 woodie]

Tommy, I see by your location that you are located in Whitestone Queens.  Are you a member of the National Woodie Club and the northeast Yankee Chapter? If not we would welcome you to become a member and attend the northeast Woodie shows held in Mystic CT, Ogunquit ME and Wareham MA. I forgot to mention in my original post that there was even an article about the search for the elusive 66" top material in the Woodie Times our monthly magazine.

[Shootey]

@46 woodie can you please give me a citation to the Woodie Times issue you mention?  Also @tommyzedoriginally speculated that the long grain cobra seemed wrong for his 1941 Ford. Is the M-2600-G material cobra or something else?  I bought 65” long grain black cobra from Restoration Specialties within the last year. The item number is LCG65B with a netting backing and LCG65 with a cotton backing. There is also SMG 80, 80” wide but it is not cobra but rather a kind of mottled black finish with the netting backing. Finally there is a short grain cobra, SHG60 black but only 60” wide. 

[46 woodie]

Shootey, the article is in the June of 2022 issue of the Woodie Times. It's great to hear that Restoration Specialties now has 65" Black Cobra Grain. It must be a new addition to their inventory, as only 60" is listed in the RS catalog I have.  They did mail me a sample of the 80" wide Smooth Grain Black material #SMG80, but it is really thin and I don't think I would use it. It's a generic material not used on Ford tops, but could be used on other makes. As far as the M-2600-G Brown Artificial Leather material, someone with a '41 Ford with the correct top material needs to answer that question.

[tommyzed]

Hi and thanks for the replies. To "46 Woody", I don't belong, but my father does belong to the national Woody club? Newsletter Woody times? I do belong to the GNYRAACA. I haven't been active in anything for years now. My Dad is 92 now and can't enjoy it anymore. I also have a 1929 Model A Sport Coupe, 1955 Chevy Nomad, and a 1967 Camaro. We also have a 1936 Lincoln "K", LeBaron Roadster, 330, that I believe is the Number 1 of the 20 made. I can only find 2 others still around. It's # K6165. The other two are K6465 and K6876.

That roof has been a thorn in the side for YEARS now. I can't stand that heavy Cobra Grain that's being used. The original was not that "heavy", and the way that it shines just makes me sick. It's supposed to be a "semigloss" to "flat" finish. I think that a canvass would look better than that does. Maybe it's me, but it just looks SOOOO Wrong. We had the seats recovered many years ago. My Dad bought leather hides, and had them re done. They still look awesome. The car is otherwise, all original. It has 24K miles on it and it will start right up. I would like to scrape the wood down, and refinish it. The other thing is the rubber. The seals, welting, window channels need to be replaced, but it doesn't stop it from being used. I had a ball spending a week in Manhattan when it was used in the movie "Something Wild", with Jeff Daniels, Melanie Griffith, and Ray Liotta. I spent a whole week there for the last five minutes of the film! LOL.  Anyway, I appreciate all of your replies and suggestions, and if I can locate any material that is correct, or even if it just looks better, I will let you know.

Please feel free to contact me anytime, with any needs, or any suggestions.   Tom

[NewOldWood]

I have done a couple cars that have had the tops done in what's called Hartz cloth. I don't think it comes in wide enough rolls to cover the whole top, so they have been seamed. The seams are a few inches in from either side, I think it comes in colors other than these two.

[46 woodie]

Tommy, I looked at the National Woodie Club Membership Directory and there is only one member listed from Whitestone Queens and his name is also Thomas, so I guess your dad is a member. We would love to have you as a member of the Yankee Chapter of the NWC and to have you attend one of the New England Woodie shows that I mentioned in my original post. Keep us posted on what you decide to do with your top.

[Shootey]

I’ve been trying to hold off on chiming in but I feel compelled. My question pertains to the underlayment on roofs at the outer edges. According to the late Bill Bergstrom as related in William C.Anderson’s Restoration Facts 1941 Buick “A thin jute pad (approximately 1/8 inch thick) is laid over the top framing (not the radiused sides and corners) and then covered with a black rubberized fabric.” My issue is with the parenthetical I italicized and bolded. The result of Bergstrom’s instruction is that there is no bulge of the roof padding and fabric as they meet the rain gutters along the sides and on the corners. 

 

Many woodies I have seen have quite fat roofs at the rain gutter edges. . Does  anyone know if roofs on non-Buick makes are supposed to taper down as the fabric approaches the gutters?  Bergstrom was the recognized expert on 1941 Buick Estate Wagons and Anderson on 1941 Buicks more generally. Anderson consulted extensively with Bergstrom in writing the woodie chapter in his book. I’m curious if this issue has been encountered by folks on other makes of woodies. Thanks. 

[Tom Boehm]

I have seen the look you are talking about on woodies at shows and in pictures. I always assumed that fat look was the result of using foam as the padding instead of cotton or jute. Foam was not used originally and I have been told it breaks down in the sun and heat. Natural materials don't do this. 

[Rexville48]

In response to Shootey’s question about taper at the drip rail, here are a few pictures of the three original layers of underlayment material and their position found on the roof of my 1948 Chevrolet.  For clarification, the second picture shows the padding torn back to expose the two layers below.  I have many more pictures if needed.  Mike

[Shootey]

Thank you Mike. Do you think the material is original or a prior renewal job?  Do you have a photo of the complete roof prior to it being opened up? I am curious how thick it appeared at the rain gutter. I’m surprised there are three layers of underlayment below the exterior final waterproof material. The Bergstrom description seems to be call for only one thin layer under the final waterproof material and even then the thin layer does not run all the way out to the gutter. Maybe Chevies were different. The Buick bodies from 1941 to 1948 were built by Hercules whereas Chevies were built by Cantrell and Ionia. 

[Shootey]

As a follow up I realized I have a book on station wagon service. It contains a section on 1948 Fisher Body Station Wagon Bodies. Attached it the title page and a page showing instructions for replacing the roof material. Page 31 shows installation of white sheeting and cotton roof padding. Those two materials extend very close to where the rain gutters are located. Neither of them terminate higher up as Bergstrom instructs for the 1941 Buick. 
 

The abovementioned book has additional pages dealing with finishing up the replacement including what is described as the covering. I’m happy to provide photos of those pages if any is interested. 

[Bloo]

On 8/28/2024 at 10:33 AM, Shootey said:

I bought 65” long grain black cobra from Restoration Specialties within the last year. The item number is LCG65B with a netting backing and LCG65 with a cotton backing.

What is netting backing?

[Rexville48]

Shootey,  Since this thread has evolved from a Ford discussion to a General Motors discussion, maybe a new topic is warranted.  I’ll let the group decide.

 

To my knowledge the fabric on the roof of my 48 had never been replaced, I am the second owner, the car had never been apart.  Attached are a few pictures of the original top exterior fabric.  You’ll notice that the fabric was extensively cracked and had been coated with some type of black paint or compound so it was hard to discern any degree of padding.  The last picture is a closeup of the fabric showing the original maroon color found under the drip rails.  Notice it’s more like pebble grain rather than Cobra grain.

 

Lastly,  it’s my understanding that 1948 Chevrolet station wagon bodies were built by Fisher Body hence the the body manual pictured above.  Mike

[Shootey]

7 hours ago, Bloo said:

What is netting backing?

Attached are pictures of the 65” restoration specialties long grain cobra, one with a cotton backing and the other with what I described as a netting backing. 

[Shootey]

Mike, Thanks for the follow up. I stand corrected on stating that Ionia and Cantrell made 1948 Chevy bodies. I had referred to the book Great American Woodies and Wagons by Donald Narus which makes no mention of Fisher bodies. An error on Narus’ part. 
 

May I pose two more questions?  Can you describe the two underlayment fabrics shown in your photos?  Is the large piece like a jute? And the smaller strip?  What do you think was the purpose of the smaller strip?  Thank you for all your help. 

[Rexville48]

The large piece was thin padding, I expect cotton,  as described in the Fisher Body manual. It did not resemble jute as I know it.  The smaller strip was a denser material much like one would find in the convertible top pads of that era.  It was positioned over the curved sides of the roof and did not extend onto the front and rear metal cap.  I actually reused the smaller strips.  

[46 woodie]

What ever you decide to use, just don't "over pad it" and try to make it look original. It really takes away from the roof when an upholstery shop uses a padding that is too thick. Another thing that really stands out on 1941-1948 Ford Station Wagons, is when the upholsterer doesn't take the time to round out and form the rear corners. I have seen them folded over on a 45 degree angle and boy does it stand out!

[PhilWood54]

in response to Tommyzed and his original question regarding the long grain cobra rubberized fabric, i cannot say what the original material was on your '41 Ford, but your comment on 8/29 about using canvas caught my eye because that's what was used on my 1947 Pontiac Woodie.  At the time, Pontiac used the fact that the top material on their station wagons matched the color of the cars.  This was done by painting the canvas with matching enamel paint, not lacquer as this would not hold up to the movement of the top and crack.  Ask me how I know this!  Much like the bottom of an old wooden canoe, it is a heavy white duck canvas that is stretched over the roof as tight as possible and then wetted to shrink it, followed by a heavy primer and then the enamel.  It can all be applied with a brush as the finished top will not be glossy due to the grain of the canvas.

Edited September 5 by PhilWood54 (see edit history)