Cam bearing question---200 Ford Six 1966

[Bloo]

There is thinking something has been done right, and there is knowing. I prefer the latter.

 

[ABear]

15 minutes ago, JACK M said:

There is a difference between back yard and professional.

You do realize that pretty much any engine built on an assembly line was assembled by a "back yard" mechanic, not a "professional"?

 

Unless you buy a "hand built"  car that was never, ever built in assembly line fashion each engine is built by multiple people at multiple stations on a moving line. Absolutely none of those people are "mechanics", they are assemblers. There job is to stick one or several parts onto the block and the block moves to the next station until the entire engine is fully assembled, they even add the filter and oil. Once assembled it moves to the vehicle production line and is married to the vehicle. The very first time that engine is started is when the fully finished vehicles tires hits the floor..

 

As far as your title of "professional" mechanic goes, yeah, I HAVE had to deal with so called professional mechanics.. Lets just say they would have nearly cost me $5K in a rebuilt engine and another $5K for labor to replace it for a 2006 truck if I hadn't discovered THEIR mistake of not torquing the spark plugs. As it was, they failed completely to diagnose the original problem for which I took it to the shop for and threw $3K of unrelated and unneeded parts at it and the plugs was one of the unneeded parts.. Yeah, I discovered the problem was nothing more that two squirts of throttle body cleaner to remove built up grim on the throttle plate..

 

The only reason I took it to a "professional" was it was my DW vehicle and I worked one hr away from home, just didn't have enough time to diagnose and repair..

 

Yeah, I will see your "professional" mechanic and raise you one "back yard" mechanic any day.

 

 

[TTR]

1 hour ago, ABear said:

You do realize that pretty much any engine built on an assembly line was assembled by a "back yard" mechanic, not a "professional"?

 

Unless you buy a "hand built"  car that was never, ever built in assembly line fashion each engine is built by multiple people at multiple stations on a moving line. Absolutely none of those people are "mechanics", they are assemblers. There job is to stick one or several parts onto the block and the block moves to the next station until the entire engine is fully assembled, they even add the filter and oil. Once assembled it moves to the vehicle production line and is married to the vehicle. The very first time that engine is started is when the fully finished vehicles tires hits the floor..

 

As far as your title of "professional" mechanic goes, yeah, I HAVE had to deal with so called professional mechanics.. Lets just say they would have nearly cost me $5K in a rebuilt engine and another $5K for labor to replace it for a 2006 truck if I hadn't discovered THEIR mistake of not torquing the spark plugs. As it was, they failed completely to diagnose the original problem for which I took it to the shop for and threw $3K of unrelated and unneeded parts at it and the plugs was one of the unneeded parts.. Yeah, I discovered the problem was nothing more that two squirts of throttle body cleaner to remove built up grim on the throttle plate..

 

The only reason I took it to a "professional" was it was my DW vehicle and I worked one hr away from home, just didn't have enough time to diagnose and repair..

 

Yeah, I will see your "professional" mechanic and raise you one "back yard" mechanic any day.

 

 

I have to disagree, especially with your first assessment. I wouldn’t consider assembly line personnel at just about any automotive manufacturing facility as “back yard mechanics”.
As far as I understand they are/were skilled and trained “professionals” assembling fully engineered new components, using all new parts, not attempting to diagnose, rebuild or repair any of them.

 

And while I’m just a self-taught vintage car hobbyist & restorer, good part of my 35+ year “career”(?) has included correcting/fixing/repairing/etc countless screw-ups by both “back yard” and “professional” mechanics/rebuilders/restorers and not to forget DIY hobbyists.

All my current and recent client jobs have involved fixing numerous f-ups, some worst than others, previously caused by what I refer as “hacks”, regardless of their professional standing or (lack of) skill level status.

[ABear]

7 minutes ago, TTR said:

I have to disagree, especially with your first assessment. I wouldn’t consider assembly line personnel at just about any automotive manufacturing facility as “back yard mechanics”.
As far as I understand they are/were skilled and trained “professionals” assembling fully engineered new components, using all new parts, not attempting to diagnose, rebuild or repair any of them.

We will just have to disagree.

 

I worked in a "high tech" company for 22 yrs, the company builds very specialized robotic equipment that millions of people depend on not killing them.

 

The SAME manufacturing "production line" principals apply across the board whether you are putting together a harmless bath tube drain or a car. The company that I worked for hired NON TECHNICAL, NON MECHANICAL, NON ELECTRONIC people for the production assembly lines across all of our product offerings. My company got labor from "temp agencies", brought them in as temps and IF they were able to pickup and learn the job given to them then the company offered to hire them. Starting pay was low and if you were good at the jobs then you would earn "merit increases" based on company profits AND your prgression in learning other assembly positions.

 

I was one of very few "skilled" laborers with Electro-mechanical, computer backgrounds that existed on the production floor. Hired in to replace some deadwood that couldn't follow simple instructions on how to setup all of the computer equipment for the products. Worked my way up to Team Leader for computer systems for our equipment, worked with research and engineering, plus purchasing, inventory, sales, upgrade scheduling people. Helped stand up multiple new products on new production lines. Often working on several jobs every week that were often $200K-$500K in sales and bottom line value every week. Yep, that's $1M-$4M in contracts per month just in what I handled by my work cell group alone.

 

Right about now you are saying to yourself, what does that have in common with autos and mechanics?

 

Toward the end of my career there, the company hired in a new "professional production floor manager", he came from working at HONDA and he ALSO worked at TOYOTA as PRODUCTION MANAGER over the entire companies production. Yes, I learned a lot about how it is done within the automotive industry in Japan. The USA industry workers are highly "coddled" over the Japanese workers to say the least.

 

Auto workers just like my company production workers are trained in MULTIPLE work cell positions on the production floor, they do not work in the same work cell all the time. Management TELLS the employees exactly what cell they will be working in, sometimes daily, sometimes weekly and sometimes monthly, but they WILL rotate through multiple work cells. Companies tend to dislike having a "one and done" worker that only works in one work cell.

 

I am not sure I would call the workmanship of most vehicles now days as "professional" level, oh my, the amount of recall letters I have accumulated from these so called "professionals" is enough to make one gag.

[JACK M]

Big whoop, you had a job.

[TTR]

2 hours ago, ABear said:

We will just have to disagree.

 

I worked in a "high tech" company for 22 yrs, the company builds very specialized robotic equipment that millions of people depend on not killing them.

 

The SAME manufacturing "production line" principals apply across the board whether you are putting together a harmless bath tube drain or a car. The company that I worked for hired NON TECHNICAL, NON MECHANICAL, NON ELECTRONIC people for the production assembly lines across all of our product offerings. My company got labor from "temp agencies", brought them in as temps and IF they were able to pickup and learn the job given to them then the company offered to hire them. Starting pay was low and if you were good at the jobs then you would earn "merit increases" based on company profits AND your prgression in learning other assembly positions.

 

I was one of very few "skilled" laborers with Electro-mechanical, computer backgrounds that existed on the production floor. Hired in to replace some deadwood that couldn't follow simple instructions on how to setup all of the computer equipment for the products. Worked my way up to Team Leader for computer systems for our equipment, worked with research and engineering, plus purchasing, inventory, sales, upgrade scheduling people. Helped stand up multiple new products on new production lines. Often working on several jobs every week that were often $200K-$500K in sales and bottom line value every week. Yep, that's $1M-$4M in contracts per month just in what I handled by my work cell group alone.

 

Right about now you are saying to yourself, what does that have in common with autos and mechanics?

 

Toward the end of my career there, the company hired in a new "professional production floor manager", he came from working at HONDA and he ALSO worked at TOYOTA as PRODUCTION MANAGER over the entire companies production. Yes, I learned a lot about how it is done within the automotive industry in Japan. The USA industry workers are highly "coddled" over the Japanese workers to say the least.

 

Auto workers just like my company production workers are trained in MULTIPLE work cell positions on the production floor, they do not work in the same work cell all the time. Management TELLS the employees exactly what cell they will be working in, sometimes daily, sometimes weekly and sometimes monthly, but they WILL rotate through multiple work cells. Companies tend to dislike having a "one and done" worker that only works in one work cell.

 

I am not sure I would call the workmanship of most vehicles now days as "professional" level, oh my, the amount of recall letters I have accumulated from these so called "professionals" is enough to make one gag.

OK, I get it.

You consider or view yourself an elitist or at least far more skilled than all the working class individuals with production line manufacturing jobs in automotive industry for past 100+ years because you worked as a Team Leader in "high tech" industry with computers and robots, etc.

Edited April 15 by TTR (see edit history)

[Littlestown Mike]

On 4/14/2024 at 5:41 PM, ABear said:

You must not have any faith in your own work.

The time the OP has messed around, they could have rebuilt it twice..

You do understand the difference between a job and a HOBBY, or do you?

I asked for technical help to understand a problem and help find a solution.
YOU decided that you were my supervisor and criticized the time I was taking,  your choice to act that way, but I haven't seen a paycheck from you yet---still waiting.
|I learned long ago that is it better to be criticized for taking too long rather than be criticized for the final quality of the work.

Yes, it is taking it is taking longer that the "book" time--but it is a hobby and the time is mine, so I will continue to do as I please.

 

One of the differences between repair and original assembly is that at original assembly few measurements were required--the Engineers has figured out the allowable tolerances and the parts given the assemblers were to be installed.  That was one of the first innovations that Ford made--way back in the Model T days.  Ford invested in Joh blocks so that he has assurance that parts were made to the proper sizes and tolerances. He removed the "fitting" of parts during assembly so that assembly could be done by lower-skilled people.

You critical attitude did not affect me--I will do as I choose, but I wonder if your approach might frighten off younger people who would see "the Hobby" as populated by old critical people.  The HOBBY --all HOBBIES--are things we do for FUN.  I see people investing vast resources of time and $$ into projects that will never pay off --at least financially.  The choose to do that simply because they want to do it and they take pride in their work.  More power to them.

[Littlestown Mike]

On 4/14/2024 at 5:41 PM, ABear said:

You must not have any faith in your own work.

The time the OP has messed around, they could have rebuilt it twice..

You do understand the difference between a job and a HOBBY, or do you?

I asked for technical help to understand a problem and help find a solution.
YOU decided that you were my supervisor and criticized the time I was taking,  your choice to act that way, but I haven't seen a paycheck from you yet---still waiting.
|I learned long ago that is it better to be criticized for taking too long rather than be criticized for the final quality of the work.

Yes, it is taking it is taking longer that the "book" time--but it is a hobby and the time is mine, so I will continue to do as I please.

 

One of the differences between repair and original assembly is that at original assembly few measurements were required--the Engineers has figured out the allowable tolerances and the parts given the assemblers were to be installed.  That was one of the first innovations that Ford made--way back in the Model T days.  Ford invested in Joh blocks so that he has assurance that parts were made to the proper sizes and tolerances. He removed the "fitting" of parts during assembly so that assembly could be done by lower-skilled people.

You critical attitude did not affect me--I will do as I choose, but I wonder if your approach might frighten off younger people who would see "the Hobby" as populated by old critical people.  The HOBBY --all HOBBIES--are things we do for FUN.  I see people investing vast resources of time and $$ into projects that will never pay off --at least financially.  The choose to do that simply because they want to do it and they take pride in their work.  More power to them.

[Littlestown Mike]

SUCCESS!!!!

It was simpler than any of us thought.   I missed installed the oil plug on the front of the eng9ine that sort of hides behind the cam gear.  In my defense, I did not remove that plug.  The machine shop would have when they cleaned it.  That plug is not called out in the FoMoCo assembly instructions.  a 1/2" hole will reduce oil pressure.

After installing the plug and then spinning the distributor at only about 50 rpm, the oil pressure gauge pegged at 40+ psi AND there is flow out the hole in the top surface of the block.

All is well.

Thank you for all who offered ideas.  Maybe this thread will help out someone else in the future.

[JACK M]

Yup, double check any work sent out.

Glad it turned out to be minor.