About the 1926 DB in the AACA Museum

[22touring]

I have watched lots of youtube.com videos about car collections, but until recently I had never seen one that contained a DB car. (One might well wonder why, for example, Jay Leno has never featured a DB, whether in the Jay Leno's Garage series or in the ones he does with the Audrain museum. I just can't help but wonder sometimes whether or not Leno has an iota of common sense. But of course one is not allowed to argue with success, is one?)

 

But today I came across this video of the AACA collection, which features a '26 DB that they call a "Suburban".  Is that really the right name for this vehicle? Please clue me in, Brothers.

 

 

The DB appears at 13:50 into the video.

 

So do the internet content creators fail to feature DB cars because they lack knowledge, because they are snobs, or because restored DB cars are rare?  And if it is because they are rare, then why aren't they worth more?

[nearchoclatetown]

The sign for the DB is actually wrong, it's a '25. They were called Suburbans or station wagons. This car belongs to the Dodge Brothers Club and was donated to them by Al Witek. As to Youtubes of DBs you better do a search there. There are maybe 75 or 100 videos about them. I did one for Boyertown Museum about my Light Repair Truck several years ago. Boyertown also did a video of their 1928 DB Victory sedan. The TV in the back of the woodie has the factory video showing all the time of how DBs were built. It is available from the DBC store. BTW, the red 1910 Brush in the video is like the one bought and driven by the Abernathy brothers. If you are not familiar with the Abernathys google their story.    It's funny that you would bring this up today. just yesterday I talked to the pres. Mark about starting a youtube channel for the club. Videos from Nat'l meets, how to, members cars, etc. could be put there.

Edited February 29 by nearchoclatetown (see edit history)

[nearchoclatetown]

Thinking more about your statement, I have been to several museums with DBs in them. The DBC owned '25 is at AACA museum, the DBC owned 1919 Truck Builder is at Washington County Ag museum near Hagerstown, Md.  Luray Caverns museum has a '15 and I think another one, Forney Museum in Denver, Co. has about a 1917 touring car, and Boyertown Museum in Boyertown, Pa. has a '28 victory sedan and a four cylinder engine. OH, and the Auburn Cord Duesenberg Museum in Auburn, In. has a early '20's touring car as the photo car for people to sit in and have their picture taken. I think it's the only non ACD car there. It was donated by a DBC member. Not a lot but some. DB was not a fancy car, more of a utility vehicle. Or as DB called it Dependibilty. 

[30DodgePanel]

10 hours ago, 22touring said:

But today I came across this video of the AACA collection, which features a '26 DB that they call a "Suburban".  Is that really the right name for this vehicle? Please clue me in, Brothers.

 

I would respectuflly submit a different take in a technical sense than Doug has in hopes that these types of post will help clear things up a bit.

 

Suburban was often referred to as a Depot or even Suburban Depots (also referred to woodies over the years).

 

The label "Suburban" came from the frequent train station visits or group outings into town. 

Some on the internet have incorrectly mislabelled them "Estate Woodies",  and often times a Suburban a Estate Car or Station Wagon. Although in theory a Suburban does have a Station Wagon feel, it isn't the proper term and is mixing the definitions which add to the confusion. Both the Suburban and the Estate Bodies are sometimes referred to as Depot which surely helps to add even further confusion. 

 

JT Cantrell was the best known builder for building these Suburbans for Dodge Brothers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

However the "Estate Body" (also called a Station Wagon) were made with metal sides and sometimes had small handrails or cane work at the top of the doors and panels. Both types (Suburban and Estate) sometimes used the tailgate with hooks, but tailgates are rare on a Estate car. If you have no life (like me) and dig a lot deeper you'll find the term "Estate car" was mostly used in England while us Americans began using the term Station Wagons.

 

H.H. Babcock was a builder that used the name Estate Car or "Estate Body". 

They were a prominent builder of this design for the Dodge Brothers.

It should be noted that the Babcock name is of English origin. 

 

 

 

 

Hoover were obviously another one of those special body builders at this time who built Estate Bodies for Dodge Brothers.

Notice the iron top supports, door handles and other differences between the two builders....?

 

 

Here's an Estate Car referred to as "Estate Depot" making it quite a soup of mixed terminology. 

 

 

 

I agree Leno should have one of each on his show, if anything to show the public the diversity of the bodies that were available at that time. 

And with names like Dodge Brothers, Babcock and Cantrell these are some very prominent names that deserve to be recognized.

 

 

Interestingly, Ford labelled some of their early Suburbans as Station Wagons which helps explain some of the confusion  

Edited March 1 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[nearchoclatetown]

We THINK it is a Cantrell Suburban like your first picture. There is no coachbuilder body tag and I have never seen the pictures of what was found. ALL the wood was replaced in the restoration and they did excellent work. This may be a good place to list any other DBs in museums?  I have seen pictures of another Truck Builder in New Zealand museum.  Of course Meadowbrook has  a few on display, but that is not a real museum. Of all the ones that I have found it's not that many. I have had my Light Repair Truck in two different museums for a few months. Mark's 1918 Staff Car has been in 3 that I know of. In 2014 there were several at AACA Museum for the 100th ann. which there is a video on Youtube. The 2014 AACA display had 15 DBs and then a few years ago we had 4 DBs in a dealership display for 6 months. And Mark has driven his Staff Car across the US twice on military convoys, once for the reinactment of Eisenhower's convoy of 1919 and again about 3 years ago. Both times on the Lincoln highway, rt. 30. And there were about 6 or 8 DBs on the set of 1923 TV series, which is part of the Yellowstone series. Some were converted to electric so normal people could drive them. Both police cars were electric with sound dubbed in. Did you see the DB dealership in the back round?  It was a real dealership from the 1920's. 

[30DodgePanel]

15 hours ago, nearchoclatetown said:

Did you see the DB dealership in the back round? 

I seen it and pause while my wife was like "omg here we go with pausing for the old cars", and my daughter watched the series with her husband and sent me a text message of the dealership so it's cool that it's getting noticed. I agree, a topic for Museum DBs and GBs is long overdue.

 

I haven't seen any Suburbans or Estate Cars at museums (yet). I have seen some tourings, trucks and screensides

[nearchoclatetown]

I was in that dealership during filming. The owner sells license plates on ebay. In one scene you can see a woodie parked on the opposite side of the street from the dealership. That is Mark's car. Many of the cars driving were a club of Model T's from Oregon or Washington. We talked to the crew converting the cars to electric, pretty cool setup. AACA likes our woodie because they don't have one. 

[nearchoclatetown]

Holy crap, I forgot there's a '17 touring DB at Fountainhead Museum in Fairbanks, Alaska. Fantastic museum with many one of a kind cars, all restored EXCEPT the DB. It was used to haul mail when there were no roads and has about 300,000 miles. They just had it running a few years ago for the dedication and ribbon cutting of a new bridge in town. Been there, have the hat. 

[30DodgePanel]

Regarding the Suburban/Woodie/Depot  at the AACA museum (can't forget the term "Depot Hack" is also sometimes used).

 

IF the woodwork was duplicated from original pieces found with the Suburban, then it's possible that it could be a Hoover body build and not a Cantrell.

When comparing it to this Hoover Suburban ad I found recently note the hinges, the hand rails (I don't recall seeing those on Cantrells), and the slates all run horizontal with vertical outer trim in the right places (or very close anyway). The handrails are in the wrong location but it makes me question why these were added to the one at the AACA? Did they find something with the original wood scraps that gave them the impression it had handrails? Only compare the wood bodies, the wheel differences are irrelevant.

 

If anyone has run across any confidential bulletins from the Dodge Brothers Club website that mentions Hoover during this era, now would be a good time to post your findings.

 

I'm not saying the Suburban at the AACA is a Hoover, only bringing up some documents in hopes of properly identifying it someday. It's something valid to consider in my opinion.

 

 

See another photo of the same vehicle on coachbuilt.com

Hoover Body Company, Hoover Wagon Co., George W. Hoover & Sons, Hoover Truck, bus, Stelkote, buses, woody - CoachBuilt.com

 

Edited March 2 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[30DodgePanel]

By the way, it would help narrow it down if someone wants to go through a process of elimination from the list of possible builders to see if they find anything new.

 

Woody Wagons, Woodies, Woodys, Suburban, Station Wagons, Depot Hack, Delivery, Suburbans, Wood Wagon, Builders, Body, Wood Station Wagon, Chrysler, Town & Country, CoachBuilt.com

Edited March 2 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[nearchoclatetown]

I think Boyertown museum has a Hoover Body as they specialize in PA. connected vehicles. York, PA. is about 25 miles to the south here. I guess it's possible this could be one. I THINK Al said he bought this one from N.J. We have several woodies in the club. There is a Cantrell fast four that was donated to Meadowbrook. Cantrells were sold through DB dealers. If you go through the sales receipts on the DBC website there are several Cantrells sold when new. The receipts are from a dealer NE of NYC. and Cantrell was from NY. When you get your new DBC news there's an article about a special feature of ours at AACA museum. As a hint, there ain't nothing new. It's all been done before. 

[22touring]

I took your advice, Doug, and looked for more DB videos on youtube.com, and found these two notable. (There were quite a few more that were somewhat ordinary walk-arounds.):

 

 

Nice car, but it's too bad the previous owner spent so much for a good but totally incorrect restoration, and the engine compartment is not detailed.

 

 

Was this really Horace Dodge's personal driver, and did Horace really install all the accessories? (It irks me that they keep calling it a Model 30 because it is my understanding that John and Horace did not intend for there to be any model number, and that issuing model numbers commenced only in the late '20's.)

 

 

Edited March 3 by 22touring (see edit history)

[nearchoclatetown]

22touring, I totally agree on the '24. As to Horace owning a '14 I don't know. The only cars that claim to have been owned by the Brothers are the closed car 1920's that are kept at Meadowbrook but owned by the Detroit Histerical Society. I can't imagine anyone having added that many accessories when it was new. The back window is wrong too, btw. When I first looked at the video I thought the front license said ZZ Top. And you are absolutely correct about the model 30 thing. DB did not ever call it by that name, only trade articles and manuals.  

Edited March 3 by nearchoclatetown (see edit history)

[22touring]

Yes, Doug, I think the top on the alleged Horace Dodge car was a common aftermarket replacement type. The "Sheik" in this picture had the same kind:

 

 

[22touring]

Motor Mouth - 1928 Dodge Brothers - YouTube

 

My mother always taught me that if you can't say anything nice, say nothing at all, so that's what I'll do.  (Please note that I am not hereby claiming to always have followed my mom's advice, but once in awhile can't hurt.)

[nearchoclatetown]

Not sure what you mean by your non comment. Boyertown Museum has been good to the DBC, we have a very good relationship. They did get hate mail for the 1933 date as ending the Brothers part of the name. I also know the " Doug" they refer to. The article Dan referred to was written by Hemmings. The Victory was the first car that the whole side was stamped as one piece, quite revolutionary and changed the whole industry.

[30DodgePanel]

I think he was just pointing out old phrase words by comparison to a old phrase (motor mouth). I doubt 22touring meant anything other wise.

Good advice for all of us no doubt. 

[JACK M]

Motor Mouth - 1928 Dodge Brothers - YouTube

 

 

No mention about why its called a "Victory Six".

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 10 by JACK M (see edit history)