An idea what car this is?

[37PackardMan]

Found this picture postcard and wonderedwhat it is.

any help would be appreciated.

[TerryB]

Maybe a little clearer

 

[dibarlaw]

Looks to possibly be a 1908 Franklin.

[Ariejan NL]

Air-cooled indeed, but in this case a 1910 Cameron Four. I couldn't find a similar side view for the Four, so uploaded a Six with the longer hood. For the Four a three-quarter front view. Obvious similarities are the flat-angle steering column with the control lever bar on top, the long French-like spring horns and the side levers with the slightly tilted hand grips. Other details match as well.

[37PackardMan]

Thanks. I find it odd that the Four back fender curves down whereas the Six flares straight back.

 

[Ariejan NL]

There are still many mysteries to solve 😉

1 hour ago, 37PackardMan said:

Thanks. I find it odd that the Four back fender curves down whereas the Six flares straight back.

 

 

[wayne sheldon]

This is something about earlier cars that gets mentioned occasionally, but needs to be explained a bit better more often.

Before Henry Ford led the way for mass production techniques, most parts of nearly all automobiles were produced in small shops, most of the work by hand in limited numbers. Many types of crude bucking forms and jigs were used, and designs often changed from one week to the next week. Printing was slower also. Most catalog pictures had to be altered by hand one way or another before they could be included into parts books or sales brochures. Designs of cars often changed before the brochures were printed.

Actual production was often somewhat different from what pictures showed in the books and brochures. Even in actual production, cars one month may have had different enders from the previous month, even in the same model/series.

 

A car I know. I won't give the actual year or model, and please, anyone knowing the car, do not mention their name, as the owner would prefer that. I will say that the make is a National. There are a fair number of those in private collections all over the globe. And more than a few people know of the car, and its history. I personally knew at least four collectors owning at least one National.

A private collector I have been fortunate to know for several decades now, bought the car a few decades ago. The car's history was known, back to the original owner. And, the car was more than a little updated when it was nearly ten years old! It had also suffered a typical 1950s refurbishment, which had erased a bit more of the original car. This presented a problem for the then new owner. Although mostly a very solid, well cared for car, it was not quite like it had been when new. The car sat in the collection for a number of years while other cars were acquired and restored, and they considered what to do with the National. Eventually (not too long actually), the decision was made to restore the car back to as close to as original as reasonably possible. A car as rare as this, most owners know who most of the others are. Research was done, copies of era brochures and photographs were purchased. Other owners were consulted. When the car had been updated (about ten years after it had been built), the wheels were cut down to take advantage of the then newer tire sizes available, and all four fenders had been replaced with something considered more stylish for the time. Top and windshield had also been chopped a bit. The top, windshield, and wheels were not much of a problem. Proper replacements or simple alterations to return them to as original took care of those. The Fenders however turned out to be a real problem. The later replacements were not anywhere near correct, and frankly, they weren't all that nice (it was a nearly ten year old car when the "update" was done!). Research had supplied several brochure pictures, but none of them matched the original era photos of similar year and model cars! A few similar year and model cars were known to exist in private collections, owners were contacted, and as helpful as they could be. The problem was, that most of the known other cars all had different fenders fronts and rears! If I recall the numbers, of all the known other cars, there were three cars that had fenders alike. That specific style was seen in era photos of a couple other cars. The owner of one of those three cars was not very far away (almost a thousand miles?), and willing to be very cooperative. The consensus was found (no where near unanimous!), a sample available, the fabricator was sent, extensive photos and measurements and even tracings taken, and the best possible guess for the car were duplicated.

 

So, a well known marque, lots of original era information available, and several known survivors, yet the fenders across the board are not all alike. No wonder us mere mortals have so much trouble identifying some of these unusual cars!

 

Ariejan, you are one of the best!

Edited December 11, 2023 by wayne sheldon
error (see edit history)

[37PackardMan]

Thanks for the post. It sounds very logical... something i had never thought about.

 

Bob