30DodgePanel Posted December 2, 2023 Author Share Posted December 2, 2023 (edited) On 11/28/2023 at 1:01 PM, nearchoclatetown said: I just read several pages of Keller's book. The Monarch governor was used on GB trucks, at least on Speed Trucks according to Keller. I forgot to post specs earlier. Hard to read but it does show Monarch Note the date is July 1920 See line 127 on both pages Off topic, does Kellers book discuss the Weidely engine? Edited December 2, 2023 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nearchoclatetown Posted December 2, 2023 Share Posted December 2, 2023 I have not heard of Weidely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
30DodgePanel Posted December 2, 2023 Author Share Posted December 2, 2023 (edited) It's mentioned in some places I've seen. It kind of sucks because when I do research on them, there are several different spellings. Weidly, Weideley, Weidely. I believe Weidely is correct but unsure at this point. Just makes it hard to sift through data using key words sometimes in some of the digital libraries online. Seems like I read that GB had Weidely in their tractors at one time. Sorry to get off course but you never know how those things may crop back up later and I wanted to make note of it here in case anyone else came across it. Still looking for any docs showing the date of the agreement in April 1921.... History - Graham Owners Club International Graham - Historic Vehicles Edited December 2, 2023 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
30DodgePanel Posted December 2, 2023 Author Share Posted December 2, 2023 (edited) April 1921 deal is mentioned here in this video at around the 5:16 mark where he shows a brief look at a newspaper clipping of the article but gives no reference or exact date. Edited December 2, 2023 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
30DodgePanel Posted December 2, 2023 Author Share Posted December 2, 2023 (edited) Not a Speed truck note the oval window, definitely more questions than answers for this photos date... Found it after revisiting the Graham Brothers News Vol 1 No12 Oct 1922 (see page one of this thread). Part of the 1920s DBC Papers from Parsons. Note the cab looks a lot like that of the 1000 Series trucks. I suppose the photo could be labeled incorrectly... Truck Builder has a similar cab to this one also, but the photo looks like pneumatics. SMH Edited December 2, 2023 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
30DodgePanel Posted December 2, 2023 Author Share Posted December 2, 2023 (edited) Thought this may interest some of you early car guys June 23rd, 1922 July 12, 1922 Edited December 2, 2023 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
30DodgePanel Posted December 2, 2023 Author Share Posted December 2, 2023 (edited) Oct 26th, 1922 I believe a copy of this was posted previously. Sorry for the duplicate. Edited December 6, 2023 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
30DodgePanel Posted December 2, 2023 Author Share Posted December 2, 2023 (edited) Obviously it wasn't a hit as I don't recall ever seeing a Screenside Convertible Edited December 2, 2023 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
30DodgePanel Posted December 2, 2023 Author Share Posted December 2, 2023 12 hours ago, nearchoclatetown said: I have not heard of Weidely. One more snippet about Weidely Motors I thought some would appreciate albeit not Dodge Brothers related directly. They were actually using the term Hybrid over 100 years ago as he was a large proponent to improving motor trucks. From May 8th, 1920 Automobile Topics magazine, page 1601 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nearchoclatetown Posted December 2, 2023 Share Posted December 2, 2023 As to the JG glass lenses, Jennette is where Pennsylvania brand tires were made. There was a Corning Glass plant close by in Wellsboro. There may have been a connection. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
30DodgePanel Posted December 2, 2023 Author Share Posted December 2, 2023 (edited) On 11/29/2023 at 8:13 PM, nearchoclatetown said: Keller has a copy of an ad for a Truck Builder that says the kits could be used on 40 named vehicles PLUS others. Then he talks about a Speed Truck having 22.5 hp and thermo syphon cooling UNTIL they realized DB was a better powerplant. The only car listed in the 40 that had thermo syphon that I know of was Ford. I sure wish we could find a dated brochure, ad, or newspaper article about the agreement with DB. Thought you might want to see this. Although redundant at this point, it's reassuring to see as we follow the timeline. Automotive Industries March 25th, 1920 page 780 Btw, Stutz was another thermo syphon listed as one of the manufacturers who were being supplied the Truck Builder. Edited December 2, 2023 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
30DodgePanel Posted December 2, 2023 Author Share Posted December 2, 2023 @ArticiferTom I'm not sure if this is of any interest to you or any of the 1/2 ton guys you may be in contact with. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
30DodgePanel Posted December 2, 2023 Author Share Posted December 2, 2023 Hopefully this helps clarify some things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nearchoclatetown Posted December 2, 2023 Share Posted December 2, 2023 They are all the same! I have read this before. It proves why the engine number is about 50,000 higher then the serial number. It was thought for years that the 50,000 was because of replacement engines and industrial engines. Not so, they started out at 50,000. If you find an actual 1914 car the numbers show this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
30DodgePanel Posted December 2, 2023 Author Share Posted December 2, 2023 I had (sold it) a DA6 with a C stamped on it, I'm still curious what that signified.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nearchoclatetown Posted December 2, 2023 Share Posted December 2, 2023 Isn't that the code for cylinder size as told at the top of page 2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
30DodgePanel Posted December 2, 2023 Author Share Posted December 2, 2023 Yes, the wording pertains to all of them as it's listed under each section, but no clarification for what the C signifies exactly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nearchoclatetown Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 I don't think you are authorized to know. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
30DodgePanel Posted December 3, 2023 Author Share Posted December 3, 2023 Not a article or a photo but still interesting for anyone looking for early F10/UF10 series wood bodied options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nearchoclatetown Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 (edited) Mifflinburg is about 60 miles north of here. The Body Co. used to make horse drawn sleighs and carriages as far as I know. There is a white f 10? in the club that may have one of these bodies. I saw it years ago and there was a discussion on the DBC site about it being sold. I tried to look for it but got lost looking at too many other things. Edited December 3, 2023 by nearchoclatetown (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
30DodgePanel Posted December 4, 2023 Author Share Posted December 4, 2023 15 hours ago, nearchoclatetown said: Mifflinburg is about 60 miles north of here. The Body Co. used to make horse drawn sleighs and carriages as far as I know. There is a white f 10? in the club that may have one of these bodies. I saw it years ago and there was a discussion on the DBC site about it being sold. I tried to look for it but got lost looking at too many other things. @hihoss may chime in here to verify if he is the current owner or someone else. I believe I may have sent this page to him previously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hihoss Posted December 6, 2023 Share Posted December 6, 2023 I have yet to find the coach builder sticker on mine but so far I think mine is a Cantrell. Is is very similar to the Mifflinburg with some differences. The front doors are suicide doors but the back doors are not cut around the wheel well. That makes them a lot narrower, and a challenge to enter . That makes the back section behind the rear doors longer. The seating looks the same. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nearchoclatetown Posted December 6, 2023 Share Posted December 6, 2023 What a great looking car. Did this belong to the widow of a long time DBC member? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hihoss Posted December 7, 2023 Share Posted December 7, 2023 yes she would not sell it. Then in 2017 she passed and her son had an estate sale. My wife saw the add and I went over and now I am the proud keeper of it. Any thoughts anyone might have as to the coach builder or pictures that could help me prove who it was would be greatly appreciated. I think its Cantrell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
30DodgePanel Posted December 7, 2023 Author Share Posted December 7, 2023 1 hour ago, hihoss said: yes she would not sell it. Then in 2017 she passed and her son had an estate sale. My wife saw the add and I went over and now I am the proud keeper of it. Any thoughts anyone might have as to the coach builder or pictures that could help me prove who it was would be greatly appreciated. I think its Cantrell. Paul did I already ask if you checked all the door jambs? I too think it’s Cantrell due to the horizontal pattern Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hihoss Posted December 7, 2023 Share Posted December 7, 2023 yep I did. It was restored at some point way i the past. I am guessing the label was sanded off. I am with you on the Cantrell, it was delivered to NY which is another clue to the body maker. Just would like to have some hard evidence. I did purchase a Cantrell label but don't want to apply it till I am sure. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nearchoclatetown Posted December 7, 2023 Share Posted December 7, 2023 I can't remember his name but I met him at Hershey shortly before he died. I am glad that you were able to buy it and appreciate it. Did Cantrell actually have a body tag or did they just use the decal above the windshield? Did you search the sales receipts on the DBC website for the serial number? The one batch was from a dealer in N.Y. and many were Cantrells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
30DodgePanel Posted December 7, 2023 Author Share Posted December 7, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, nearchoclatetown said: I can't remember his name but I met him at Hershey shortly before he died. I am glad that you were able to buy it and appreciate it. Did Cantrell actually have a body tag or did they just use the decal above the windshield? Did you search the sales receipts on the DBC website for the serial number? The one batch was from a dealer in N.Y. and many were Cantrells. Carl Roebuck according to page 25 of the Guide for Trucks via the club store. BTW @hihoss I've saved all the sales receipts, invoices and bulletins related to Cantrell from the batch on the DBC but have never found any from 1931 or 32 that match your truck serial number. FWIW... Cantrell were still doing work for Chrysler products though as this bulletin will attest, albeit a Plymouth.... Edited December 7, 2023 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
30DodgePanel Posted December 7, 2023 Author Share Posted December 7, 2023 (edited) 6 hours ago, hihoss said: yep I did. It was restored at some point way i the past. I am guessing the label was sanded off. I am with you on the Cantrell, it was delivered to NY which is another clue to the body maker. Just would like to have some hard evidence. I did purchase a Cantrell label but don't want to apply it till I am sure. Thanks According to a good friend who has studied Cantrell for years and grew up and lives on Long Island minutes from where the Cantrell plant was, he seems sure it's Cantrell after I showed him your photo. Here is his response in PM "Cantrell without doubt, they were the ones that had that low door profile and the horizontal slats as a design feature. Reason he can't find a builders tag is that Cantrell ( at least as far back as 1930 if not earlier) used a decal and these deteriorated. They were placed above the windshield at center on the header panel . New decals were made some years ago by a friend who restored the remains of a 1930 Franklin with Cantrell body." Not sure if you've seen this yet Paul Vanderbilt Cup Races - Blog - From the Hugh Nutting Collection: Insight into the Woodies of Huntington’s J.T. Cantrell and Company Edited December 7, 2023 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
30DodgePanel Posted December 7, 2023 Author Share Posted December 7, 2023 (edited) Not sure who owns this one but I can see similarities. Edited December 7, 2023 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hihoss Posted December 7, 2023 Share Posted December 7, 2023 (edited) thank you all. Carl Roebuck was the previous owner, and as I mentioned I bought it from his estate after his wife died. I was able to purchase a Cantrell decal but want to be sure it is first. It does appear form all the reply's here that it is a Cantrell. I have one more place to check for the sticker. The head panel above the windshield has a single panel over it that is snugly fit and is retained buy the side frame and the mirror. I have to bow the piece to get it out and so far have feared snapping it in 2. I will give it another try and see if the decal is under it. I did see the Vanderbilt blog. thanks all for the assist. Edited December 7, 2023 by hihoss (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nearchoclatetown Posted December 7, 2023 Share Posted December 7, 2023 Yes, Carl was the name I could not remember. There are two versions of the decal, early and late, make sure you have the right one. I am not familiar enough to help you ID. Maybe AACA library can help. Matt Hocker at the library knows our collection and their's real well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
30DodgePanel Posted December 8, 2023 Author Share Posted December 8, 2023 (edited) This is why I love the research aspect so much, the insight gleened from these clippings are amazing to follow. Yes we have the benefit of hindsight, but if we imagine what it must have been like to follow the auto industry during this era it tends to paint a more clear picture of the activities as they happened while displaying the challenges they faced along the way. All of these clippings in this post are from the same magazine. The months are January-June for the first half of 1921 The free online digital libraries are a useful daily tool. My favorite is Hahti Digital Trust, here's the link in case you need it. I would encourage everyone to at least give it a try, afterall... you never know what nuggets you may uncover And please remember to donate if you wish to help support them. HathiTrust Digital Library – Millions of books online Mr Haynes unique and diverse history. ---------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------ ---------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------- Edited December 8, 2023 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nearchoclatetown Posted December 8, 2023 Share Posted December 8, 2023 (edited) So from your educated guess would this be a Cantrell? And keep in mind the Brothers thought a lot of Fred Haynes. He was the third leg of the corporation. John and Horace each had 50000 worth of stock and they gave Fred 5000. He became President and ran the company for the widows until Dillon Reed took over. Edited December 8, 2023 by nearchoclatetown (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
30DodgePanel Posted December 8, 2023 Author Share Posted December 8, 2023 I'd edgeumicate yes! Cantrell That truck reminds me of Harry Wellens old truck. What's happening with dear ole Harry Wellens truck? I sure hope it ends up in good hands since his passing. He was a great man in my opinion and it still saddens me to think of his passing. He was always so willing to share literature so we could all learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nearchoclatetown Posted December 8, 2023 Share Posted December 8, 2023 (edited) Harry's 1927 was just sold recently. The truck in the picture is the 1925 that was donated to the DBC by a member, Al Witek. It is now in the AACA museum. Edited December 8, 2023 by nearchoclatetown (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
30DodgePanel Posted December 8, 2023 Author Share Posted December 8, 2023 Gorgeous Suburban. Looks like a meticulous restoration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nearchoclatetown Posted December 8, 2023 Share Posted December 8, 2023 It is, and thanks for the ID. We have thought that is was a Cantrell, but have no proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
30DodgePanel Posted December 8, 2023 Author Share Posted December 8, 2023 J.T. Cantrell, J.T. Cantrell & Brother, Suburban, Woody, Woodie, J.T. Cantrell & Company, Huntington, Joseph Theodore Cantrell - CoachBuilt.com A lot of similarities Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nearchoclatetown Posted December 9, 2023 Share Posted December 9, 2023 VERY similar but doors seem to be different sizes. The whole wood body is new, and we have no idea what they started with. It's beautiful, but who knows if it's correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now