Engine won's start

[no1parfive]

Per my previous posts, I still can't get my engine to start, will turn over fine, but not start.  Here is a brief history of my situation: I have an 89 TC, 4-cyl, 8-valve engine, I removed the cylinder head (with attached intake/exhaust manifold and turbocharger) in order to replace the turbocharger gasket, which had burned out due to loose, and missing, mounting bolts.  After reassembly, and thoroughly checking that everything was properly reconnected and mounted, I attempted to start it, with no success.  I followed my blue service manual instructions precisely, especially as it relates to the cam shaft sprocket, so that engine timing would be maintained.  I also made a spark check, fuel supply check (to the fuel rail) and all was ok, also tried using starter fluid, with no success.  So, I'm at a lost as to why my engine will turn over but not start.  I'm wondering if my fuel injectors are functioning properly, I checked the electrical connection plug (which I had to disconnect to remove the head) with my tester and all seemed ok (continuity test).  I exhausted all of my ideas as to the problem, and would like any and all suggestions as to what possibly could be causing my problem........

 

 

[mensanguy]

Will it fire with starting fluid?

[Hemi Dude]

7 hours ago, mensanguy said:

Will it fire with starting fluid?

He has said, "It will NOT".

 

7 hours ago, mensanguy said:

Will it fire with starting fluid?

 

[mensanguy]

Have you checked it for adequate  compression?

 

Ok, you got spark, you got fuel ( start fluid)  that's good...

 

What about checking with a timing light to see if timing is correct, if it flashes in no 1 when you are trying to start? also, the correct placement of the plug wires?

[no1parfive]

Plug wires are correctly placed.....as it relates to proper timing, engine must be running (according to blue service manual) to check for proper timing using a timing  light........as it relates to testing for proper compression, the same applies. engine must be running to check this.......

[mensanguy]

Have you checked this?  if the plug fires, it will be enough to fire the timing light.

And show where the mark is.  Or isn't.

 

I have used a cheapie neon light to perform this task. 

And, it worked. 

 

As far as compression goes, engine just has to be cranked for a reading.

Try it, you might be surprised..

Edited July 6, 2023 by mensanguy (see edit history)

[no1parfive]

Made compression test while trying to start engine, as you suggested, cylinders 1, 3, 4 read about 45 psi, cylinder 2 read about 50 psi, my blue service manual says normal psi is between 100 to 125 psi, I'm now wondering why my readings are so low, which I assume would not allow the engine to start.  I installed a new head gasket and torqued the head bolts per the service manual.  Wil now check engine timing.

Edited July 6, 2023 by no1parfive (see edit history)

[mensanguy]

That is LOW compression! 

I think you have the timing belt off a few teeth,

Hemi, what do you think???

[Hemi Dude]

1 minute ago, mensanguy said:

That is LOW compression! 

I think you have the timing belt off a few teeth,

Hemi, what do you think???

I would agree with that conclusion. I had previously suggested VERIFYING that the cam and crank sprockets were properly aligned. It is so very easy to miss on that setting especially if looked at from above. One really needs to have the right front wheel off and lower timing cover off too, so you can see the timing marks 'head on'.

[ted sweet]

valve timing off or head gasket not done correctly

[mensanguy]

So, what going on with this engine?

inquiring minds want to know.........

[no1parfive]

TC back up and running fine......problem was engine became untimed for some reason, during head removal, I took special care to keep tension on timing belt as specified by my blue book, but somehow my intermediate sprocket rotated about a quarter-turn counterclockwise, where the notch was not lined up with the crankshaft mark when crankshaft was properly positioned.  After realigning the intermediate sprocket and putting everything back together, my engine started immediately. Want to thank everyone who had an input on this issue, especially Hemi Dude.  Solving this problem was indeed a challenge, but with the help of members like you guys, we got it done. With my car being 34 years old (1989), I'm just wondering what's next.............LOL......

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

with

[Moparite]

(If you are not replacing the timing belt)It helps to zip tie the belt to the cam gear and pull up on both with a bungee cord/ratchet strap to keep things where they need to be. A cherry picker works well to hold the bungee/strap. Then you don't have to "time it" since the belt/gears are in the same place when removed. 👍

[Hemi Dude]

21 minutes ago, Moparite said:

(If you are not replacing the timing belt)It helps to zip tie the belt to the cam gear and pull up on both with a bungee cord/ratchet strap to keep things where they need to be. A cherry picker works well to hold the bungee/strap. Then you don't have to "time it" since the belt/gears are in the same place when removed. 👍

Yes I can agree on this philosophy right up to the time you attempt to install the camshaft sprocket back onto the cam. As you release the upward tension of the supporting strap or whatever is maintaining tension on the timing belt, the weight of the belt itself will first slip out of the intermediate shafts sprocket.  

This is what happened to no1’s engine.

Then you may slightly rotate the camshaft sprocket in order to slip the sprocket into alignment with the camshaft key and before you know it, the belt system is out of sync. 

I have worked on these engines as the main engines in my customer’s vehicles since they were introduced in 1981 until I retired in 2011, and on my own 2.2 and 2.5 engines that I built and maintained to this day.

I operated  Hemi’s Independent Chrysler Repair in Ventura, CA from 1988 to the end of 2011.

Taking a chance on missing just one cog on the intermediate shaft sprocket will result in AT LEAST seeing the distributor turned either left (CCW) or right (CW) in order to have the distributor timed to the correct timing.

If the distributor in your 2.2/2.5 is not positioned in what looks like a straight horizontal plane with the engine, you can be sure that your basic cam/crank/intermediate shaft timing is incorrect.

As for me, a professional mechanic of 64 years, I will always remove the right wheel and the crankshaft belt sprocket and the lower timing cover and VERIFY that the alignment is correct the FIRST time rather than ‘hope’ I got it right and later have to do it over after fully assembling the engine and finding that the engine won’t start. Yes, I know there are other items that require removal for access, as well.

And just “One more thing”, as Colombo use to say.  If your engine requires the removal of the head, it would be  foolish not to replace the timing belt, it generally costs less than a head gasket set and certainly less than a tank of gas in our TC these days.

[OldCTcars]

I've followed this like a soap opera, and I'm glad your back up and running.

 

[Hemi Dude]

5 hours ago, OldCTcars said:

I've followed this like a soap opera, and I'm glad your back up and running.

 

Yes, I remember those afternoon Soap-Operas, you could miss 2 months of the program, as you did here, and fall right in sync with the plot, they moved so slowly. 

Welcome to "As the Intermediate Shaft Turns" 

[Hemi Dude]

On 9/6/2023 at 8:34 AM, no1parfive said:

With my car being 34 years old (1989), I'm just wondering what's next.............LOL......

 

 

 

There is always something with all cars, yours is simpler than these newer cars. 
Look forward to seeing your odometer roll over the 300,000 mile mark.