1930 Franklin stuck intake valves

[David P]

My 1930 Franklin coupe sat for a number of months at a body shop while she was getting new paint. I think it may have been outside without the hood on. Now I have two intake valves stuck in the open position. They are the first two going backwards from the front of the car. I tried putting some kerosene on the top of the spring letting it run down the valve stem and also lightly taping the spring and rocker to try and get it to free up. No luck. Does anyone have any other suggestions?

 

Thanks Dave

Edited October 30, 2022 by David P (see edit history)

[PFitz]

George,

 

 If the valve covers were on, I doubt very much that corrosion from the hood being off is the problem. Most likely a mix of carbon and old oil of the stems and guides are what is making the valves stick open.  If the kero is going to work, it takes time. Give the kerosene a couple of weeks to soak in and loosen the crud. 

 

If you can't wait, then using a block of wood as a fulcrum, gently pry up on the spring coils with a screwdriver. See if you can get the valves to move up and down, even if only a little bit. That will let the kero get down in and work even faster. 

 

Paul

Edited October 30, 2022 by PFitz (see edit history)

[David P]

Thanks Paul, Was concerned about how strong the pin that holds the retaining washer (probably not the correct terms) would be. Is that pin part of the valve stem or is it separate? I don't intend on prying enough to break it, but you never know.

[PFitz]

Dave, the pin is quite strong in that setting, but I mentioned being gentle so as not to break the pin, damage the spring retainer, or bend the valve stem. You want to pry straight upward, not on an angle to the stem. Using two screw drivers on opposite sides of the valve spring from each other is even safer.

 

If that won't get the valves to budge, then more drastic measures could cause damage. In which case the safest thing is to pull the cylinder jugs off and tap the valve from inside with a block of wood. I can walk you through that in emails with pictures, easier done than on here or the phone with George.  

 

Paul

[David P]

Thanks again. I'll have dad try that. I'm in NJ and try to visit my folks every month or so in NC.

[David P]

Nice work on the carb. It looks brand new.

[BillDC]

My fix for this is to pull the plug,  hand crank the engine to lower the piston, stuff as much cotton rope into the cylinder that you can then hand crank the engine to raise the piston. Now the valve can't fall out so remove the spring. Grab the valve with some vise grips and work it up and down and rotate it while dribbling Sea Foam down the stem. That will loosen it up and  you'll be back on the road.

Cheers,

Bill

[David P]

That sounds interesting. Any tricks or tools to compress the spring so it can be removed?

[PFitz]

2 hours ago, David P said:

That sounds interesting. Any tricks or tools to compress the spring so it can be removed?

Dave,

With the valve stuck down, you may not be able to get a valve spring compressor tool in between the spring's  coils. And it's going to be tough to push the valve spring retainer down enough by hand to slide the pin out but try that. Don't disconnect the spring without a way to support the valve in the head. If it does come loose, it can drop down enough where you may not be able to get it back up without pulling the cylinder jug off the engine base. 

 

If tapping the rocker arm with a block of wood and hammer didn't move the valve, as I told your father to try, I doubt you can get vice grips to hold that hardened steel of the valve stem with enough grip to move it.

 

The kero-soaking takes time, but is the least risk to parts and people. 

 

Paul 

[David P]

Paul, The screwdriver method worked. Dad got both valves to release. We're going to use the Mobile 1 & Mavel mixture on the pads and then hook up the gas line, cross our fingers and step on the starter.

 

Thanks again...

[PFitz]

Dave, good news. Thanks for letting me know.

 

Great picture of your Dad tapping on the #1 exhaust valve. 

 

Paul

[David P]

Paul,

 

Really appreciate all the help. With your suggestion on throttle & choke operation we got the girl started. One thing we meant to ask you was, what should the torque be for the spark plugs? Pic of the old girl before Dad decided to put a new color dress on her. Now we just have to put her back together.

 

Dave

[David P]

Dad had to replace the steering box many years ago and, in the process, had to disconnect the hand controls. Unfortunately either didn't have a camera or cell phone handy to take pics. Where can we find any diagrams or other that will help us reconnect?

 

Thanks...Dave

[PFitz]

 

 

Franklin did not use torque specs. Mechanics just learned to only tighten enough that it won't come loose.  The old mechanic's joke is, "Tighten it until it breaks, then back off a 1/4 turn". 

 

You might find the torque spec at the spark plug manufacturer's website, but beware. On that engine the plugs thread into a brass insert in the aluminum head. If you over-tighten the plug, you can strip the brass threads or loosen the brass insert.

 

Better too-loose and have to retighten, then too-tight and broken. 

 

Paul

[PFitz]

Dave,

 

The hand throttle lever should be down at the 6 o'clock position when the throttle is fully closed. The head light switch handle points up at 12 o'clock.

 

The small parts of the hand throttle lower lever arm and its brass friction strap have to be assembled in the correct order. Then the pushrod from the lower lever arm up to the throttle lever on the outboard end of the carb's throttle shaft has to be adjusted to length.

 

From the factory, the lower lever arm points in toward the engine base and when you start the car, you move the hand throttle lever from the 6 o'clock position to about 4 o'clock. However, that lower lever arm and it's stop clip can be flipped 180 degrees on the shaft so that it points outboard. That gives the pushrod a better angle for less side wear on the pivot points and clears the air cleaned better. Then, to start the car you move the handle lever from 6 o'clock to the 8 o'clock position.  

 

To assemble the parts, you first you have to make sure the leather seal and its cupped washer go on the hand throttle shaft and up into the recess in the lower end of the steering box to prevent grease leaking out. If the seal is missing, you can cut new one out of leather. Punch the center hole in the leather slightly under-sized for the shaft. The washer is cupped so that as the brass friction strap support is bolted against the steering box it forces the washer in against the leather to squash it in against the shaft to seal there.  

 

Here are pix of the hand throttle's lower lever arm and the brass friction strap. You adjust the tension of the brass strap on the shaft by tightening the screw in the middle of the strap only enough to counteract the tension of the throttle return spring hooked to the throttle shaft lever arm on the engine side of the carb. The other end of that spring goes back to hook into the tiny hole in the bracket that the brake pedal comes through on the firewall.

 

Last picture shows the black pushrod and the silver upper lever arm on the outboard end of the carb's throttle shaft. 

 

Paul

Edited November 18, 2022 by PFitz (see edit history)

[Walt G]

Paul, thanks for your on going answers to questions to all who ask. Often owners who get the information you provide will in haste neglect to say thanks, but I am doing that now for all of them.

Walt

[PFitz]

Thanks, Walt. Like you, I enjoy sharing antique auto info. 

 

Paul 

[f147pu]

Spark Plug torque:   Finger tight plus 1/8th turn.