Pierce Arrow on BAT

[John Bloom]

Just putting this out for those who are Pierce Arrow fans.  Interesting car.  

 

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1927-pierce-arrow-series-80-runabout/

 

This 1927 Pierce-Arrow is a Series 80 rumble-seat roadster that was purchased by the seller in 2002. The car is finished in red with darker fenders over black tufted upholstery, and power comes from a 288ci inline-six paired with a three-speed manual transmission. Features include running boards with step plates, a rear-mounted spare rim and tire, a golf bag door, a black soft top, an archer hood ornament, and headlights integrated into the fenders. Modifications include a Carter carburetor and a Stewart-Warner water temperature gauge. This Pierce-Arrow is now offered with an operator’s handbook, copies of period literature, a black canvas top cover, and a clean Nevada title in the seller’s name.

 

[zepher]

Car was bid up to $40,123 but reserve was not met.

 

[alsancle]

I was doing Ed a favor and got to drive one of these up and down my driveway.   Worlds away from a 1930s big Classic.   But cool enough,  don't love the red on this one.

 

 

[John Bloom]

On 12/31/2022 at 4:21 PM, alsancle said:

I was doing Ed a favor and got to drive one of these up and down my driveway.   Worlds away from a 1930s big Classic.   But cool enough,  don't love the red on this one.

 

 

When the Pierce Arrow guys get together and tour, do the series 80/81 guys get left behind?  Can they keep up with the Senior cars or do they plan a route where highway speed isn't needed?  Is a change in rear end done by most who want to use these to keep up with others in a club event?  Sorry to ask so many questions, but I had a conversation with someone recently who was selling one and I was curious if the driving experience (from a touring speed aspect) was not up to the standards of guys who Tour with their Pierces.

 

I agree that the red is hurting the car.  Some cars with troublesome color choices look better in person than in pics.......perhaps this is one of those.  

[Grimy]

2 hours ago, John Bloom said:

When the Pierce Arrow guys get together and tour, do the series 80/81 guys get left behind?  Can they keep up with the Senior cars or do they plan a route where highway speed isn't needed?  Is a change in rear end done by most who want to use these to keep up with others in a club event?  Sorry to ask so many questions, but I had a conversation with someone recently who was selling one and I was curious if the driving experience (from a touring speed aspect) was not up to the standards of guys who Tour with their Pierces.

 

I agree that the red is hurting the car.  Some cars with troublesome color choices look better in person than in pics.......perhaps this is one of those.  

I've had two Series 80s, a sedan (still own it) and a coupe (now at the P-A Museum).  The sedan was my first Pierce, acquired in 1994, and had to be affordable.  I've put 20,000 miles on the sedan and 6,500 on the coupe.  I'll probably die owning the S80 sedan even though I have other Pierces far more desirable.  It helps that my sedan has been repainted 65 years ago and poorly reupholstered but is an "honest car" in that only maintenance has been done to the chassis over the years.  It is far more fun than the money it would bring.

 

The 80s cruise at 45 mph *IF* they have the most common--and fastest--diff ratio of 4.45.  Diff ratios were assigned by the Company as to where the cars were to be shipped, not by body style and (mostly) not by customer option.  My sedan was shipped to SF and thus has the deepest ratio (4.88) which affords a comfortable cruise of 36-37 mph and the engine is screaming at 40.  That drove me crazy until I fitted a 26% Mitchell OD which results in 3.61 overall for a comfortable cruise of 49 mph.  The intermediate ratio was 4.64.

 

Only on one tour was I really discomfited:  that was a NorCal CCCA tour 20 years ago advertised as suitable for earlier, slower classics.  Imagine my surprise and dismay when the lead car was a dual-ratio Auburn convertible sedan whose owner wanted to show off its highway capabilities!

 

The senior cars of 1921-1928 (Series 32/33/36) also had deep gearing by comparison with the cars through 1920 which were tall-geared by almost anyone's standards.  The rationale for the change, according to a Series 32 (1921 only) salesman's data book was to minimize the amount of shifting an owner-driver would have to do.  Bear in mind that no synchro boxes were yet available anywhere. The idea was that an owner-driver could get into 3rd (top) gear at 15 mph and never have to shift unless he/she came to a complete stop.  Yet another factor, certainly not in the salesman's material but addressed in historical publications, is that the number of persons employed as chauffeurs dropped precipitously in the post-war (World War I) era and whether by choice or necessity owners were actually driving their cars.

 

Build quality of these "junior" Pierces is identical to that of the senior cars.

[BobinVirginia]

14 minutes ago, Grimy said:

I've had two Series 80s, a sedan (still own it) and a coupe (now at the P-A Museum).  The sedan was my first Pierce, acquired in 1994, and had to be affordable.  I've put 20,000 miles on the sedan and 6,500 on the coupe.  I'll probably die owning the S80 sedan even though I have other Pierces far more desirable.  It helps that my sedan has been repainted 65 years ago and poorly reupholstered but is an "honest car" in that only maintenance has been done to the chassis over the years.  It is far more fun than the money it would bring.

 

The 80s cruise at 45 mph *IF* they have the most common--and fastest--diff ratio of 4.45.  Diff ratios were assigned by the Company as to where the cars were to be shipped, not by body style and (mostly) not by customer option.  My sedan was shipped to SF and thus has the deepest ratio (4.88) which affords a comfortable cruise of 36-37 mph and the engine is screaming at 40.  That drove me crazy until I fitted a 26% Mitchell OD which results in 3.61 overall for a comfortable cruise of 49 mph.  The intermediate ratio was 4.64.

 

Only on one tour was I really discomfited:  that was a NorCal CCCA tour 20 years ago advertised as suitable for earlier, slower classics.  Imagine my surprise and dismay when the lead car was a dual-ratio Auburn convertible sedan whose owner wanted to show off its highway capabilities!

 

The senior cars of 1921-1928 (Series 32/33/36) also had deep gearing by comparison with the cars through 1920 which were tall-geared by almost anyone's standards.  The rationale for the change, according to a Series 32 (1921 only) salesman's data book was to minimize the amount of shifting an owner-driver would have to do.  Bear in mind that no synchro boxes were yet available anywhere. The idea was that an owner-driver could get into 3rd (top) gear at 15 mph and never have to shift unless he/she came to a complete stop.  Yet another factor, certainly not in the salesman's material but addressed in historical publications, is that the number of persons employed as chauffeurs dropped precipitously in the post-war (World War I) era and whether by choice or necessity owners were actually driving their cars.

 

Build quality of these "junior" Pierces is identical to that of the senior cars.

It’s amazing that such a car review can be had on a car almost a century old!!! 
Great Stuff!!

[Grimy]

2 minutes ago, BobinVirginia said:

It’s amazing that such a car review can be had on a car almost a century old!!! 
Great Stuff!!

It helps when the reviewer is old, Bob!!  🙂

[BobinVirginia]

@Grimy

I know folks younger than you that can’t give details of breakfast. Much less gearsets and drivability issues from years ago! 
 

Even better, you could write that review in cursive. Try asking a young person to do that! 
 

 

Edited January 2, 2023 by BobinVirginia (see edit history)

[BobinVirginia]

Ok, I’ll stop 

[John Bloom]

George, thanks for your first-hand knowledge and feedback.  I think (like in most areas of life), it is all about expectations.  Your explanation of safe cruising speed is about what I would have expected but hearing the OD unit's impact is nice to know.  I particularly like your comments about the build quality still being at a high standard.  I don't know if some of the other "down market offerings" of similar higher quality marques can say that about the quality????  Marmon Roosevelt, Franklin Olympic...etc....

 

 

[Grimy]

John, I can't speak to those others but I'm sure someone with experience will chime in.  Bear in mind that S80s were not cheap:  the 5-p deluxe sedan like mine was $3,895 at the factory in 1925.  The S80 was built to compete with the Packard Single 6 but was priced at $650 more, almost body style by body style.  This differential resulted poor initial sales, so Pierce quickly also offered a more basic S80 called the Coach Series for $650 less than the Deluxe to better compete with Packard 6.  The Coach series had a single-piece (vs two-piece for Deluxe) windshield, wood-grained metal interior garnish moldings (vs mahogany), flat roof (vs slightly domed), squared quarter windows (vs. radiused), and cheaper vanities--but were otherwise identical.  Those economies didn't save the Company $650!  S80s were profitable and the Deluxe S80s even more so.