Dodge Bros truck

[ArticiferTom]

Stakeside is that the like single or double beadboard used in wainscoting ? Is beautiful . I guess is some kind of tongue and groove edge to keep together . 

[30DodgePanel]

9 hours ago, EdStewart said:

I think Danny must have found a star DB emblem not knowing it was from a car. I see in the picture of the truck in my first post that the emblem was missing. Someone probably has it as a souvenir in their dresser drawer. I'd love the find the correct one.

Do you have any knowledge of the 4 rims on this truck? It appears the each wheel has a split rim, 2 solid rings and a split ring.

Your friend did the same thing most of us do, we've all bought parts to "make it work" out of our excitement when first getting started or parts that we thought were correct only to find out later the part may be incorrect for our specific truck application so it's not a big deal, it happens...  I have to say I think it's pretty awesome you're taking on your friends project to finish it, Kudos to you as this is not  for the faint  of heart. Just be patient, the emblems do come up for sale from time to time and most of us reading this try to be helpful by putting it on our list of parts we are looking for on behalf of other Dodge Brothers owners. If we find one, you'll be the first to know so hang in there... (there's one on eBay for around $300 currently, but I believe if you're patient you can find one cheaper).

 

In regards to the rims, Stakeside has it right, we need more information in order to help.

Things we need to know are:

1.) what's the width of rims with and without the locking ring

2.) is the diameter 20" or 24"

3.) are there any numbers and letters stamped on them

4.) are the rims the same front and back

5.) better photos of the side ring, the clamping ring (if there is one) and the locking ring showing how they meet or fasten together.

6.) clear view of the interior of the rim showing any grooves and especially where it latches for the latching mechanism

 

Also, some of us have literature that can assist us in finding your answers, but we need to know exact sizes with photos first in order to help properly otherwise we are simply guessing.You would'nt believe how many different combinations of rims that are out there for this era so the list of 6 items will help us narrow it down. I have some pretty good literature that I can compare the parts to once you provide us with those things we'll see what we can find then we can look for specific instructions on how to put yours together, again, the literature I have does explain some of the  instructions but the instructions are different depending on what rim and rings you have. There are also a variety of special tools that work best depending on what rim maker (Kelsey, Firestone, Goodyear etc..) you have. Based on what I've seen in the wheel catalogs so far I believe it's possible you have the Kelsey Hayes KH 711A, but I don't want to assume. It could also be the Firestone DT rims that Stakeside shows but I cant tell without better photos and more information. 

 

In the meantime, here are a couple of other scans that you might want to save to your files so that you have the info when you get to that point.

[EdStewart]

I have to move the truck frame and parts next week to another garage (we sold our house). I'm thinking of setting the engine in the frame if there's no downside to it. Do these engines sit on motor mounts? Or on those springs that are on the engine. Do the flanges on the bell housing mount straight to the flanges on the frame? Can the oil pan be removed when the engine is in the frame? The pan is now just set on the block, there is the plate in the bottom picture that bolts to the bell housing- is there a seal between this plate and the oil pan?

ne

[EdStewart]

15 hours ago, 30DodgePanel said:

Your friend did the same thing most of us do, we've all bought parts to "make it work" out of our excitement when first getting started or parts that we thought were correct only to find out later the part may be incorrect for our specific truck application so it's not a big deal, it happens...  I have to say I think it's pretty awesome you're taking on your friends project to finish it, Kudos to you as this is not  for the faint  of heart. Just be patient, the emblems do come up for sale from time to time and most of us reading this try to be helpful by putting it on our list of parts we are looking for on behalf of other Dodge Brothers owners. If we find one, you'll be the first to know so hang in there... (there's one on eBay for around $300 currently, but I believe if you're patient you can find one cheaper).

 

In regards to the rims, Stakeside has it right, we need more information in order to help.

Things we need to know are:

1.) what's the width of rims with and without the locking ring

2.) is the diameter 20" or 24"

3.) are there any numbers and letters stamped on them

4.) are the rims the same front and back

5.) better photos of the side ring, the clamping ring (if there is one) and the locking ring showing how they meet or fasten together.

6.) clear view of the interior of the rim showing any grooves and especially where it latches for the latching mechanism

 

Also, some of us have literature that can assist us in finding your answers, but we need to know exact sizes with photos first in order to help properly otherwise we are simply guessing.You would'nt believe how many different combinations of rims that are out there for this era so the list of 6 items will help us narrow it down. I have some pretty good literature that I can compare the parts to once you provide us with those things we'll see what we can find then we can look for specific instructions on how to put yours together, again, the literature I have does explain some of the  instructions but the instructions are different depending on what rim and rings you have. There are also a variety of special tools that work best depending on what rim maker (Kelsey, Firestone, Goodyear etc..) you have. Based on what I've seen in the wheel catalogs so far I believe it's possible you have the Kelsey Hayes KH 711A, but I don't want to assume. It could also be the Firestone DT rims that Stakeside shows but I cant tell without better photos and more information. 

 

In the meantime, here are a couple of other scans that you might want to save to your files so that you have the info when you get to that point.

Thanks for the info Dave, I'm heading down to Fallbrook next week to move the truck and I'll take a good look at the wheels and take a bunch of pictures. I believe the front and rear rims are the same size, and I think they are 20" but will confirm that too. Thanks for any help in the hunt for the radiator emblem- when I find the correct one I'll sell the Star emblem to someone searching for the correct one for their car. I have the 1-ton underslung tire carrier- it's off the frame at the moment.

 

[30DodgePanel]

I understand, it's a lot to deal with. Sounds like you have more important pressing things in life so just do what you can for now.

 

A couple of photos that should help.

Yes you are correct on all of your questions, you can rest it in the frame in these grooves (first photo), it acts as the crossmember once it's in place. As you know the bellhousing is mounted to the back of the engine and you'll notice that it has a lip (second photo) that simply rests on the frame grooves, then you can bolt it down or brace it temporarily if needed. 

 

Motor mounts can be made or you can use temporary rubber bushings if you don't want it sitting directly on the frame, someone in the DBC may be making motor mounts. Not sure about the springs, that's a new one on me... For the pan, just simply find the correct threaded bolts to hold the pan in place until you can get to it, or you can leave it off, it's up to you. I think you can remove the pan once the engine is in place but when you start to lower it with your hoist you should be able to tell for sure. If you're wanting to keep engine and lower pan area thoroughly lubed you'll have to seal it all up so all the bolts will need to be in place and secured. 

 

 

 

Here's an example of one still in the frame (saved the photo from the internet, not sure who the owner is but it's a 1 ton according to my notes):

 

 

As for the opening between the pan and bellhousing, I don't recall anything that mounts there so I think it's always exposed (in order for mechanics of the era to easily reach the flywheel im guessing). Stakeside might recall seeing something on his recent build but I don't recall seeing it on either of my DA6 engines. I can look in an hour once the sun comes up out west.

 

Edited October 16, 2022 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[30DodgePanel]

Correction, it does appear there may have been some sort of cover according to my owners manual. 

I do recall seeing it in my parts pile (I haven't started my restoration yet) so if I find it today I'll post a photo of what it looks like. 
I always wondered what it was for, I think I found my answer lol... see how we all learn together at times  🙄

 

EDIT:

The cover plate is in place one of my bellhousings that is very hard to get to in storage currently but I can just barely see it...

 

Edited October 16, 2022 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[stakeside]

7 hours ago, EdStewart said:

I have to move the truck frame and parts next week to another garage (we sold our house). I'm thinking of setting the engine in the frame if there's no downside to it. Do these engines sit on motor mounts? Or on those springs that are on the engine. Do the flanges on the bell housing mount straight to the flanges on the frame? Can the oil pan be removed when the engine is in the frame? The pan is now just set on the block, there is the plate in the bottom picture that bolts to the bell housing- is there a seal between this plate and the oil pan?

ne

 

The plate shown with 5 bolts is bolted to the bell housing. 

It would best to place the engine in the frame with the oil pan correctly assembled. There is seal at the rear bearing that can be tricky to place correctly. There is a detailed discussion on the forum about this seal.

If not sealed correctly you will have an oil leak there.

I am not aware of any motor mount rubber. Believe motor mounted directly to frame. 
Those springs go on the top of the front mounts. They act as dampers.
 

 

 

 

[30DodgePanel]

30 minutes ago, stakeside said:

The plate shown with 5 bolts is bolted to the bell housing. 

It would best to place the engine in the frame with the oil pan correctly assembled. There is seal at the rear bearing that can be tricky to place correctly. There is a detailed discussion on the forum about this seal.

If not sealed correctly you will have an oil leak there.

I am not aware of any motor mount rubber. Believe motor mounted directly to frame. 
Those springs go on the top of the front mounts. They act as dampers.

 

The plate is sitting right there in the photo lol. Wow, how did I miss that... der da der

miss read that entire section looking back....

 

Thanks for warning him of the rear seal, I'd forgotten that discussion. Isn't there a way he can allow it to sit in the frame without going that in depth with it for now since he may have limited time to deal with things right now?

Were the springs original? I've seen quite a few DA6 engines (including your donor) and don't ever recall seeing those. 
I'm not an engineer but why no mounts and yet there are springs on top to dampen? I don't see either the mounts or the dampening springs listed in any of my parts books (unless I'm missing them, which is highly possible obviously lol). 
 

Edited October 16, 2022 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[stakeside]

23 minutes ago, 30DodgePanel said:

 

The plate is sitting right there in the photo lol. Wow, how did I miss that... der da der

miss read that entire section looking back....

 

Thanks for warning him of the rear seal, I'd forgotten that discussion. Isn't there a way he can allow it to sit in the frame without going that in depth with it for now since he may have limited time to deal with things right now?

Were the springs original? I've seen quite a few DA6 engines (including your donor) and don't ever recall seeing those. 
I'm not an engineer but why no mounts and yet there are springs on top to dampen? I don't see either the mounts or the dampening springs listed in any of my parts books (unless I'm missing them, which is highly possible obviously lol). 
 

It would be best way to move engine in the frame if just temporary. Place the pan later.

[stakeside]

On 10/15/2022 at 7:06 AM, ArticiferTom said:

Stakeside is that the like single or double beadboard used in wainscoting ? Is beautiful . I guess is some kind of tongue and groove edge to keep together . 

The top has two way curvature and a panel will not conform well. Single slats conform better. 
I use a router to get the shape needed.

[stakeside]

8 hours ago, stakeside said:

 

The plate shown with 5 bolts is bolted to the bell housing. 

It would best to place the engine in the frame with the oil pan correctly assembled. There is seal at the rear bearing that can be tricky to place correctly. There is a detailed discussion on the forum about this seal.

If not sealed correctly you will have an oil leak there.

I am not aware of any motor mount rubber. Believe motor mounted directly to frame. 
Those springs go on the top of the front mounts. They act as dampers.
 

 

 

 

Here a picture of my original DE truck engine and I saved a picture before removing the engine.

Here is present engine.

[ArticiferTom]

Looks like maybe one spring goes under bottom of bracket , base on before pic .

[stakeside]

3 hours ago, ArticiferTom said:

Looks like maybe one spring goes under bottom of bracket , base on before pic .

I guess poor pictures. The spring sets on top of engine motor mount.

[EdStewart]

14 hours ago, stakeside said:

 

The plate shown with 5 bolts is bolted to the bell housing. 

It would best to place the engine in the frame with the oil pan correctly assembled. There is seal at the rear bearing that can be tricky to place correctly. There is a detailed discussion on the forum about this seal.

If not sealed correctly you will have an oil leak there.

I am not aware of any motor mount rubber. Believe motor mounted directly to frame. 
Those springs go on the top of the front mounts. They act as dampers.
 

 

 

 

Where would I find the discussion of the seal Stakeside? I searched for DA6 oil pan seal and had no luck.

Do I return to my Navy days and use cotton and oakum? 🙂

[EdStewart]

1 hour ago, stakeside said:

I guess poor pictures. The spring sets on top of engine motor mount.

Is there just a washer and the head of the bolt under the frame flange mount?

[EdStewart]

15 hours ago, 30DodgePanel said:

I understand, it's a lot to deal with. Sounds like you have more important pressing things in life so just do what you can for now.

 

A couple of photos that should help.

Yes you are correct on all of your questions, you can rest it in the frame in these grooves (first photo), it acts as the crossmember once it's in place. As you know the bellhousing is mounted to the back of the engine and you'll notice that it has a lip (second photo) that simply rests on the frame grooves, then you can bolt it down or brace it temporarily if needed. 

 

Motor mounts can be made or you can use temporary rubber bushings if you don't want it sitting directly on the frame, someone in the DBC may be making motor mounts. Not sure about the springs, that's a new one on me... For the pan, just simply find the correct threaded bolts to hold the pan in place until you can get to it, or you can leave it off, it's up to you. I think you can remove the pan once the engine is in place but when you start to lower it with your hoist you should be able to tell for sure. If you're wanting to keep engine and lower pan area thoroughly lubed you'll have to seal it all up so all the bolts will need to be in place and secured. 

 

 

 

Here's an example of one still in the frame (saved the photo from the internet, not sure who the owner is but it's a 1 ton according to my notes):

 

 

As for the opening between the pan and bellhousing, I don't recall anything that mounts there so I think it's always exposed (in order for mechanics of the era to easily reach the flywheel im guessing). Stakeside might recall seeing something on his recent build but I don't recall seeing it on either of my DA6 engines. I can look in an hour once the sun comes up out west.

 

Dave, is there any support of the transmission, or is it just hanging off the bell housing? 

[EdStewart]

10 hours ago, stakeside said:

The top has two way curvature and a panel will not conform well. Single slats conform better. 
I use a router to get the shape needed.

Makes sense, it looks great!

[30DodgePanel]

5 hours ago, EdStewart said:

Dave, is there any support of the transmission, or is it just hanging off the bell housing? 

Depending on how much time you have and if you're not comfortable with it hanging off you can mount the drive shaft to the differential or you can simply brace it temporarily if needed. No cross member for the trans.

 

 

[30DodgePanel]

12 hours ago, stakeside said:

Here a picture of my original DE truck engine and I saved a picture before removing the engine.

Here is present engine.

 

 

I can't recall, was that truck documented as original? 
Sherman, you know me, I have to have the proof it was original and I can't find anything showing those springs. Not saying they weren't original, I'm simply saying I need to see evidence. A previous owner could have added those so respectfully the photo isn't proof. Now if you can find original literature or mention of them in the parts list then that would validate the photo and prove them original. Did you find them in the MPB? 

[ArticiferTom]

They do list them in MPB for that model and many others .

[stakeside]

4 hours ago, 30DodgePanel said:

 

I can't recall, was that truck documented as original? 
Sherman, you know me, I have to have the proof it was original and I can't find anything showing those springs. Not saying they weren't original, I'm simply saying I need to see evidence. A previous owner could have added those so respectfully the photo isn't proof. Now if you can find original literature or mention of them in the parts list then that would validate the photo and prove them original. Did you find them in the MPB? 

I have both original registration and the Build Card for this truck.

[30DodgePanel]

2 hours ago, ArticiferTom said:

They do list them in MPB for that model and many others .

Thank you, Tom. I’m at work currently so I’ll look again tonight to see what they are listed as. Appreciate it

[ArticiferTom]

MPB T9-21 Front engine support spring 514428  qty 2 .😉

[30DodgePanel]

9 hours ago, ArticiferTom said:

MPB T9-21 Front engine support spring 514428  qty 2 .😉

I'm stunned to see how many truck models used them...

Have you guys ever noticed these in other engine photos or any other literature previously (brochures/catalogs etc..)? I feel like a fool for never recognizing them.

 

Sorry to  hijack but my OCD was getting the best of me admittedly...

Edited October 18, 2022 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[30DodgePanel]

Ed, you may find this reassuring in regards to motor mounts.

 

Here is a description I found in F35 specs that used the same DA6 engine. F35 was one mentioned in the MPB (Master Parts Book) that shared the springs in which Stakeside and Tom were referring to. Although I do not have a specs on the E series DA140 model, the F series F35 is a newer version of the 140" wheelbase so this example proves that your truck would have shared the same springs as the other models (such as Stakesides 120" wheelbase truck) in the MPB part #514428.

 

I don't see anything that mentions motor mounts, only the springs. 

Sherman and Tom, thank you for correcting me on this topic. Very important detail that I never noticed before. 

 

 

 

Edited October 18, 2022 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[ArticiferTom]

Does not that description make the above install upside down ?  Bolt should be going down and springs on bottom then nut .

  As six cylinder where only one using and  mostly on larger trucks , few are left to see .

[nearchoclatetown]

I have nothing to stand on but experience but I THINK one spring MAY go on top and one under the mount. I have never seen two springs put together, only if one spring is broken. One on top and one under would give plenty of movement. I will look through manuals the club has and try to find something.

[stakeside]

1 hour ago, nearchoclatetown said:

I have nothing to stand on but experience but I THINK one spring MAY go on top and one under the mount. I have never seen two springs put together, only if one spring is broken. One on top and one under would give plenty of movement. I will look through manuals the club has and try to find something.

My first picture has a broken spring and motor mounts directly to frame. The attached pic shows correct spring on other side of the motor.

Is the truck DA engine motor mount different than the passenger car?

 

[nearchoclatetown]

The DA car, at least my '29, is bolted directly to the frame, no springs. I will search a book tonight.

[stakeside]

Here is forum discussion on placing the oil pan rear seal. If you go to end of discussion you will see the way to seal oil pan. Most of the discussion is for other engines.

 

[EdStewart]

Thanks for the discussion on the motor mounts, I'll get some close ou pics tomorrow of the front springs.

I made it to Fallbrook tonight, took some pictures of the rim parts to help with ID. Hope I don't swamp the thread with pictures, but figured more info is better. Don't hesitate to tell me if less is better.

[EdStewart]

Are the brake drums stamped steel? They don't appear cast. Danny had something done to them, they appear galvanized- he call it metalized, but he was Czech and sometime he use creative English. Anyway, they feel somewhat rough and all the brake jobs I've done have had smooth, or freshly turned surfaces. Do these wear in, or do you have them turned or honed? It seems they would eat the shoes the way they are now.

 

Let me know if there are other pictures that would be helpful in any aspect of this truck- I'll be here for 4 days or so until I head North to Washington.

 

[EdStewart]

12 hours ago, stakeside said:

Here is forum discussion on placing the oil pan rear seal. If you go to end of discussion you will see the way to seal oil pan. Most of the discussion is for other engines.

 

Thanks for this Stakeside, I'll pull the pan off tomorrow and see what is there.

[Ed Kraft]

2 hours ago, EdStewart said:

Hope I don't swamp the thread with pictures, but figured more info is better. Don't hesitate to tell me if less is better.

Hello, Ed !

 

I enjoy reading Your thread, even though I don't own any vintage trucks either on my property or in the immediate area. As my experience studying the technical aspects of historical vehicles shows, Dodge has a much more complex history and more intricate model lines, than, for example, Ford or Chevrolet. Therefore, in this case, the more photos of different components of Your truck You place here, the easier it is to understand all the problem areas of this particular model. So, please, keep posting these pictures.

Quote

Are the brake drums stamped steel ?

Yes, that's right, it looks exactly like stamped steel in the photo.

Quote

Let me know, if there are other pictures, that would be helpful in any aspect of this truck - I'll be here for 4 days or so.

Ed, could You take some pictures of Your spoked wheel (without the rim parts, as in Your photo above) from the outside, and measure several sizes ?
First of all, I would like to get the photograph of this whole wheel, taken not from the side, but directly from above, when the camera is positioned strictly horizontally, and the axis of the wheel is in one line with the axis of the camera lens.
Are these spokes round or oval in their cross sections in their middle parts ?
And I'm interested in knowing the following dimensions: - the outside diameter of the wheel, - the inside diameter of the wheel (between the sides of the wheel, where the spokes are attached to the outside part of the wheel), - the diameter of the black center disc, - the diameter of the end of the part, protruding out of the center black disc, - the width of the outer part of the wheel, - the thickness of one spoke in its middle part, - the width of that part of the spoke, with which it rests on the outer part of the wheel. You can use the private message to send me these photos.

 

And thank You in advance, Ed !

Edited October 20, 2022 by Ed Kraft (see edit history)

[stakeside]

5 hours ago, Ed Kraft said:

Hello, Ed !

 

I enjoy reading Your thread, even though I don't own any vintage trucks either on my property or in the immediate area. As my experience studying the technical aspects of historical vehicles shows, Dodge has a much more complex history and more intricate model lines, than, for example, Ford or Chevrolet. Therefore, in this case, the more photos of different components of Your truck You place here, the easier it is to understand all the problem areas of this particular model. So, please, keep posting these pictures.

Yes, that's right, it looks exactly like stamped steel in the photo.

Ed, could You take some pictures of Your spoked wheel (without the rim parts, as in Your photo above) from the outside, and measure several sizes ?
First of all, I would like to get the photograph of this whole wheel, taken not from the side, but directly from above, when the camera is positioned strictly horizontally, and the axis of the wheel is in one line with the axis of the camera lens.
Are these spokes round or oval in their cross sections in their middle parts ?
And I'm interested in knowing the following dimensions: - the outside diameter of the wheel, - the inside diameter of the wheel (between the sides of the wheel, where the spokes are attached to the outside part of the wheel), - the diameter of the black center disc, - the diameter of the end of the part, protruding out of the center black disc, - the width of the outer part of the wheel, - the thickness of one spoke in its middle part, - the width of that part of the spoke, with which it rests on the outer part of the wheel. You can use the private message to send me these photos.

 

And thank You in advance, Ed !

Not sure of the purpose of the single thin ring in the picture.

[30DodgePanel]

8 hours ago, EdStewart said:

Thanks for the discussion on the motor mounts, I'll get some close ou pics tomorrow of the front springs.

I made it to Fallbrook tonight, took some pictures of the rim parts to help with ID. Hope I don't swamp the thread with pictures, but figured more info is better. Don't hesitate to tell me if less is better.

Thanks for the pics.

As Ed Kraft said, more pictures are always better to help the viewer understand what your needs are and hopefully we can help you equally in return. I have to say, I'm completely lost on steel rims as I've never studied them before, but I am totally fascinated by what I'm seeing as you guys discuss this topic. I believe your truck is one that is right at the heart of the transition period as you'll notice in the notes in this catalog (page 27, the first scan) it shows Graham Brothers IE 1 ton but does not mention the DA140, meaning, I believe this shows it's possible those folks responsible for printing/publishing the catalog were still catching up to the name change from Graham to Dodge Brothers.

 

As I said, I have little knowledge of the steel wheels but I believe I can help by posting what I found in the catalog.

 

First off, I've turned this photo of yours around so it matches the catalog view I'm posting scans of. I believe (Sherman please help us verify if this is correct), that you have a O style rim in the upper middle section of page 27, it also explains the two rings. The catalog pages I'm posting will also explain other details of the O style felloes (continued on top of page 28) that I believe you have. 

I'm posting the rim and the ring pages also to hopefully answer some other questions that may arise. If you need scans of the bolts, clamps, and nuts just let me know. If you'd like to post a photo of the bolt, clamp and nuts I can compare it to what's in the catalog and post pics to verify you'll have assurance you'll be using the correct parts as I'm sure your'e aware, these are dangerous and need to be correct. And then lastly I'm posting the tool page to help you (and anyone else reading) what you might need to make the job easier. The tool page alone has me in awe of what it takes to work on a variety of steel rims and a small glimpse of the various tools that would have been needed by the mechanics of the day.

 

As for mounting instructions and clarity, we may have to turn to other sources for further details once you find out exactly what you have and need. Hopefully these illustrations will get you to the next step in that journey.

Hopefully this helps.

Best regards

 

 

BTW, double click on the scans in order to zoom in.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 20, 2022 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[EdStewart]

I think I'm starting to understand these wheel Dave, that split ring is a clamp that goes under the nuts on the side of the wheel. I was stuck thinking that it went on the outside of the outer diameter of the rim like a modern split rim ring. Your picture above ( page 28, upper right corner) under "DTO",  type "O" substituted for "DTO" shows a ring like item #9 on page 41 above wedging between the wheel and the rim, clamped by the wedge and the nut. Think this may be correct? I'll check out how the ring lays in tomorrow.

I took some picture totally of parts, I went through a bunch of boxes today and am gathering all truck parts to move to a friend's garage. 

[EdStewart]

 

There is a washer with a fair amount of wear on the inner race of the inner bearing- there is also a thin metal washer and a felt ring, does this serve as the inner seal? There were two old seals with springs in the same box but I'm not sure where they came from. Danny also bought or machined two new outer washers that index in the slot. 

 

[EdStewart]

This is the front diff seal, the part that slides onto the keyed tapered shaft is a little rough, it seems it may be hard on the seal since it will spin against it. Should parts like this be smoothed or polished to ride against the seal?

 

[EdStewart]

There are a lot of parts involved the driveshaft, it is a puzzle. I'll get some pics of the shafts themselves tomorrow.