Hand crank difficulty

[MCELLIOTT1957]

Hi. My 1924 Dodge Brothers Touring car has a hand crank or push button starter on the floor. The button just jiggles the generator and will not move. The hand cranking is very difficult to turn, even if all the spark plugs are removed. Could this indicate a bad starter/generator? Or what else can I try to do to make it rumble back to life. Thank you for any ideas you have. 

[Minibago]

You may have run a bearing which is grabbing the crankshaft

If your engine won’t turn easily by hand with the plugs out then this is where I would start.

We had this recently (not my car) and it was due to the service centre draining the oil to change it by removing the oil pump.

It of course was refitted incorrectly. 
The owner should have realised when the oil pressure indication was “0”

[Mark Gregush]

Could be rings/pistons, could be rod bearings or mains are too tight. Without knowing more about what has or has not been done to your engine could make it hard to guess what is going on. Were you having this issue before while dealing with transmission lock? Or is this something new? In the post linked below, you say the engine was rebuilt in 2000 then stored. Could be it was setup too tight back then. 

 

Edited September 8, 2022 by Mark Gregush (see edit history)

[Minibago]

Ahh,

You need to include all the background information about your vehicle when asking a question.

If the engine was restored in 2000 and was then shortly afterwards stored outside for twenty years then an exhaust/ valve or two would be open to the atmosphere through the exhaust, probably causing the cylinder/s to rust and the rings to seize in the bore/s

This scenario could be proven by removing the head and having a look.

Check the camshaft first to see which valves are open to better target the problem cylinder.

[MCELLIOTT1957]

Unfortunately that information of rebuilt motor and all that went on with storage is all I know. The people didn't know specifically what was rebuilt  other than "the motor". I was thinking something might be or must have been tightened up too much. I was going to try getting slack from the generator/starter to see if anything happens. I've gotten multiple answers if it's a 12 volt positive ground and another said 12 volt negative ground? How can I tell? Is there a way to tell? The people that had the car did not know, they were too young to know what their dad did to it before passing away. No battery in battery box either. The cable coming from foot starter is brass and the other cable that is connected to transmission is regular steel colored. I just do not know how to wake this car up so I and it can get some fresh air and blow the cobwebs out of exhaust! Is there a way to get some slack from adjusting the starter? Does this make sense? I took head off, and all the tops and inside piston holes were very clean and no spot at all of rust.

[Mark Gregush]

In 1924 it would be positive ground. The ground side was change in 1921 or 1922 to positive ground. For cranking over, the starter does not care which one is used. Unless the chain is rusted solid, don't think that is an issue that need to be delt with at this time. Too loose or tight would not really affect it turning over by starter or crank. If everything looks clean inside, I would go with the bearings were setup on the tight side. You could try the old standby, tow it around some to loosen up the bearings. Make sure it is well oiled, top and bottom and brakes work. 

[Minibago]

If the engine will not turn using the hand crank with the plugs out then you are wasting your time trying to get the starter to turn it.

Towing it seized will only cause more damage.

Pull the sump and inspect the bearings if the cylinders look okay.

[Mark Gregush]

He says the cylinders are clean and hard to turn with crank, so guessing it is not seized just tight. 

[MCELLIOTT1957]

Yes, just very hard to turn the crank. What bearings are you wondering about and the "sump"? I'm very new to this car and I am sorry for asking too many questions. I would love to get this thing on the road, where it belongs. My next thought is to drain the oil and refill with new oil. But ,again, I do not know how much to put in. There is a wire in a crevice on driver side front by the starter. I was told by the family that had it, that the wire is the oil guage. And it does seem to go up and push down easy as it reminds me of a bobber while fishing. Where else can I check the oil? I unbolted the brass fitting that was directly behind the water pump and the spring is present and so is the ball bearing,  but no oil appeared, was there supposed to be visual oil or does the ball bearing do something completely different? The spring and the ball bearing are both in great condition, no rust. I took side covers off and can see movements from each valve etc, when my son( he's stronger than I am due to cancer treatments) so everything seems to go up and down, it's just very hard to crank. After I drain and refill the oil, I will see if that makes a difference.  The wire bobber of oil checker may be registering fluid in the motor, but sitting outside for those years , that there may be water instead of oil. Good idea to drain and refill?

[gossp]

My 16 was very difficult to turn over when I pulled it out of its 30 years of poor storage. 
 

Valves popped up relatively easily but still couldn’t spin it. Drained oil and filled with atf, no change after a week. 

 

 I finally noticed the twisting of the water pump shaft while trying to turn it. Cut the shaft between the gear and the pump and had an engine that spun easily. 
 

that of course started the saga of replacing a water pump on one of the early dodges with the pump mounted to the oil pan. It is a much easier replacement on a 24. 

[Minibago]

A tight water pump is a good suggestion and easily checked.

 

The term sump you know as the oil pan.

 

The bearings are the crankshaft main (block) bearings and the big end (con rod bearings)

 

The dip stick is, as you say, a bobber float the pin of which shows the oil level, it should be approximately halfway between the two flat pads top and bottom.

 

If the car has stood outside in the rain for twenty years surely the first thing would be to change the oil and lubricate everything that has a grease point.

 

You cannot ask too many questions, there is no stupid question, if you don’t know (and all of us have started by knowing nothing) there are plenty of knowledgable folk willing to help. Diagnosis by message is “Suggestion” of what it could be only. Best to work through each one until the solution is found.

 

The manual for these cars is readily available and I would recommend you purchase one.

[MCELLIOTT1957]

I have about 5 books so far and found them all online on ebay! I have even purchased a book about the convertible roof designs. Mine was so ripped apart and not much to salvage. I think the new top would be just to cover front and rear seat and use the original rear window. Thank you everyone for your suggestions and recommendations . I appreciate everyone's help!

[Mark Gregush]

Besides asking questions, you should get a copy of "Mechanics' Instruction Manual" and a copy of the "Book of Information" that came out just before your build date. You can find reprints of the first one on eBay. To drain the oil, you have to uncouple the pickup tube from the oil pump and remove the two bolts holding the pickup in the pan. Have a pan under it before doing that.  

[MCELLIOTT1957]

I believe I have that book. And a blue book for years covering mine.

[Mark Gregush]

Great! It can be your best friend working on your Dodge.

[MCELLIOTT1957]

I have the manual on the front seat most of all time,unless I need the room then it sits in the back seat. This book is awesome and is ideal to look at. 

[Farmallregular]

Have you tried greasing the water pump bearings...grease has been know to harden over the years, and the water pump & distributor shaft is gear driven.  There's also a "rag joint" (flexible coupling) between the water pump and distributor that you can disconnect to make sure the distributor drive isn't binding....just be sure to mark it so timing will be correct when you put it back together.

 

Keith

 

[Minibago]

So the result was?

[MCELLIOTT1957]

I have had some health issues and I put the car away in the garage for winter. Once it warms up again toward spring, I will do what I can to get it working and drivable.  Thank you 

[ILIKECARS53]

Sorry to hear that.  We will be here in the spring to offer more help.

[Minibago]

We all wish you a warm winter rejuvenation, we will be here when you return in the Spring.