1938BuickLimited90 Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 Hi all! I am new to this forum and I am stumped with an issue maybe you guys can help... Long story short I inherited a 1938 Buick 90 Series from my late grandfather. Ive had the car for about 10 years now in my possession. This year I have had a few issues with the car so I started tearing into what needed to be done. I started with rebuilding the generator and when the generator came out we noticed that the belt was badly dry rotted and the water pump was leaking. So here is my issue, I was able to get the water pump out and the fan off with the radiator still in the car, we ended up taking the hood off and the radiator out to have it redone as well. Now the water pump is back on the thermostat housing and bypass as well, installed the fan and pulley but I cannot get the radiator to slide back into place. The main issue is that the radiator will slide into place when the fan and pulley are off the water pump but for the life of me I cannot get the bolts back in the to get the fan and pulley on with the radiator in place, the clearance is too tight. Anyone else have this issue or can offer any words of advice? Any help is greatly appreciated! Thanks, Stef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1939_Buick Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 (edited) Welcome to the forum. Have requested moderators move this thread to https://forums.aaca.org/forum/60-buick-pre-war/ More folks speak "straight 8" in that place. Including some with large series. We like photos! If not a member worth joining the BCA-->https://www.buickclub.org/ And http://www.3638buickclub.org/ Edited August 1, 2022 by 1939_Buick (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 The '38 shop manual suggests that to remove the radiator without having to remove the grilles, the fan and water pump need to be removed. I just did this on my '38 Century last winter. Sorry to say this, but you should remove the water pump and thermostat housing again to allow the radiator to be re-installed. THEN you can re-install the water pump with thermostat housing and the fan. You may want to install the fan already installed on the pump, though I did have room to insert the fan bolts after the water pump was in place. The alternative is to remove the grilles and go through the front. I didn't do that and I fear that would be much harder than removing and reinstalling the water pump. By the way, did you modify the coolant bypass valve in the thermostat housing while you had it out? If not, that's something that you should consider on the re-do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1938BuickLimited90 Posted August 1, 2022 Author Share Posted August 1, 2022 15 hours ago, EmTee said: The '38 shop manual suggests that to remove the radiator without having to remove the grilles, the fan and water pump need to be removed. I just did this on my '38 Century last winter. Sorry to say this, but you should remove the water pump and thermostat housing again to allow the radiator to be re-installed. THEN you can re-install the water pump with thermostat housing and the fan. You may want to install the fan already installed on the pump, though I did have room to insert the fan bolts after the water pump was in place. The alternative is to remove the grilles and go through the front. I didn't do that and I fear that would be much harder than removing and reinstalling the water pump. By the way, did you modify the coolant bypass valve in the thermostat housing while you had it out? If not, that's something that you should consider on the re-do... Thanks for the advice! Highly appreciated, yes I have the shop manual for my 38 but I wish they showed some pictures or were more specific about the radiator! I think I will try your way of removing the water pump and bypass, then reinstalling the water pump and bypass after the radiator is already in. Unfortunately the fan and radiator sit so close to each other on my 90 series the bolts for the fan cannot go in when the everything is installed and the radiator is as well. Hopefully I can get the water pump on with the fan attached. Also I have not modified the bypass for the thermostat, what exactly does that entail? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuickTom87 Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 16 minutes ago, 1938BuickLimited90 said: Thanks for the advice! Highly appreciated, yes I have the shop manual for my 38 but I wish they showed some pictures or were more specific about the radiator! I think I will try your way of removing the water pump and bypass, then reinstalling the water pump and bypass after the radiator is already in. Unfortunately the fan and radiator sit so close to each other on my 90 series the bolts for the fan cannot go in when the everything is installed and the radiator is as well. Hopefully I can get the water pump on with the fan attached. Also I have not modified the bypass for the thermostat, what exactly does that entail? That’s a beautiful 38 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Eaton Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 If it is like my '39 getting the fan and pulley lined up so the bolts would go in was like a puzzel. I made a bullet nose tool to get one set of holes in alignment then started the other screws. The tool was a rod that I ground a bullet nose on, ae it about 3/4 inch long and welded the blunt end to a 6 inch piece of strap..... Another tip, put some light weight cardboard between the radiator and the end of the water pump. this saves the radiator fins and your knuckles. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1938BuickLimited90 Posted August 1, 2022 Author Share Posted August 1, 2022 1 hour ago, Barney Eaton said: If it is like my '39 getting the fan and pulley lined up so the bolts would go in was like a puzzel. I made a bullet nose tool to get one set of holes in alignment then started the other screws. The tool was a rod that I ground a bullet nose on, ae it about 3/4 inch long and welded the blunt end to a 6 inch piece of strap..... Another tip, put some light weight cardboard between the radiator and the end of the water pump. this saves the radiator fins and your knuckles. Thanks Barney! Unfortunately in my case its a little more complicated then that, the main issue is that when the radiator is in and the water pump is installed the spacing is so small that I cannot get the bolts to thread into the the water pump, they hit into the radiator fins and I cannot get them to be level to thread in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonMicheletti Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 Did you put the bolts into the pump housing before you positioned the pump? That should work. The 80 and 90 series cars are the same I believe and I was able to change the pump on my Roadmaster. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1939_Buick Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 21 hours ago, 1939_Buick said: We like photos! Looks great 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted August 2, 2022 Share Posted August 2, 2022 Sounds like you need to install the pulley and fan on the water pump/thermostat housing and then install the entire assembly - after installing the radiator. Like I said, I think that's what the shop manual suggests, however, on my Century I had just enough room to slip the fan bolts in after the water pump and radiator were in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted August 2, 2022 Share Posted August 2, 2022 (edited) Here's a link to the modification that was done to my car before I bought it. https://forums.aaca.org/topic/297623-1938-buick-century-model-61-four-door-touring-sedan-trunk-back/page/4/#comment-1663076 I modified the modification while I had the bypass valve out for my radiator replacement. I removed the freeze plug and replaced the steel tube that was installed to lock the valve in it's 'no bypass' position with a piece of copper tubing so it wouldn't rust. Others have instead eviscerated the original valve components and plugged the bypass hole with a properly sized freeze plug with a 1/4' hole drilled in the center. In theory, that's equivalent to my setup, as the shop manual states that the open area around the circumference of the original valve is equivalent to the area of a 1/4" hole. The point of any of these modifications is to prevent the bypass valve from opening and therefore limit the amount of coolant bypassing the radiator to the minimum necessary to allow the thermostat to regulate engine temperature without wild hot/cold swings. Edited August 2, 2022 by EmTee (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1938BuickLimited90 Posted August 2, 2022 Author Share Posted August 2, 2022 Thanks guys for all your help, I guess I will start from scratch and back track a bit, try and put the radiator in first and then the pump and bypass assembly. Hopefully it works! The only other thing I can think of why the fan cannot go on after the radiator is in because I did notice there was a small aluminum spacer behind the fan pulley in between the pulley and the water pump pulley itself. That must have been installed in the past and that could be messing with the bolt clearance as well, its pretty thin but could be an issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted August 2, 2022 Share Posted August 2, 2022 1 minute ago, 1938BuickLimited90 said: I did notice there was a small aluminum spacer behind the fan pulley in between the pulley and the water pump pulley itself. Hmmmm, I wonder whether that's an original item... My Century didn't have anything behind the water pump pulley. How thick is the spacer? If it is behind the pulley it must be there to align the water pump pulley with the crankshaft pulley. Maybe the water pump on the car came from a different year 320? But, isn't the bolt flange on the pump shaft a press-fit? If so, maybe it is pushed too far back on the shaft... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1938BuickLimited90 Posted August 2, 2022 Author Share Posted August 2, 2022 1 hour ago, EmTee said: Hmmmm, I wonder whether that's an original item... My Century didn't have anything behind the water pump pulley. How thick is the spacer? If it is behind the pulley it must be there to align the water pump pulley with the crankshaft pulley. Maybe the water pump on the car came from a different year 320? But, isn't the bolt flange on the pump shaft a press-fit? If so, maybe it is pushed too far back on the shaft... I dont think that it is original to the car as far as the spacer goes, im positive the water pump is correct for the car. I think maybe the spacer was to align the belt properly with the generator since I have now found out that is wrong for the car 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1938BuickLimited90 Posted August 2, 2022 Author Share Posted August 2, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted August 2, 2022 Share Posted August 2, 2022 8 hours ago, 1938BuickLimited90 said: I think maybe the spacer was to align the belt properly with the generator since I have now found out that is wrong for the car Well, the fan pulley HAS to align with the crankshaft pulley. Whoever installed the generator would have to align it with the fan and crankshaft. My theory is whoever rebuilt the water pump pressed the fan flange too far onto the shaft. While you have the water pump off would be the time to press it out where it belongs. Then you can throw away the spacer and use the proper length (shorter) bolts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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