28 Dodge Senior

[trini]

I need help. The  carburetor on my 28 Senior  6 engine  is running with a Carter B B 1.  I think they were used on Chevrolet 1932 trucks, I am not sure. I am not happy with it  . What is the alternative ?   The Original according to the manual is a UX-2. So far I have tried on this forum to get information on how to hook up a UX2. The manual also say UX-3. The UX-3 bolt pattern center is too wide.To the bloggers who may not know what the X means is that the butterfly lever must be pulled towards the engine block where as the normal carburetor butterfly is pulled towards the firewall. If that carburetor (UX-2) came as OEM  some one out there must have an idea what is the missing linkage. Any help mates.

Cheers.

[carbking]

Trini - the information that I have is that there were THREE different carbs used by Dodge in 1928 on the Senior 6.

 

First - Stromberg type TX-2

Second - Stromberg type UX-2

Third - Stromberg type UX-3

 

The "X" in the above types means "cross-flange". Or if one draws a straight line from mounting stud to mounting stud, and extended the line, the line would run from fender to fender. A straight flange carburetor's line would run bumper to bumper.

 

The "2" and "3" in these types refers to the S.A.E. standard flange size.

 

Size 2 is a "nominal" 1 1/4 inch carb with throttle opening of approximately 1 7/16, and center to center mounting of 2 11/16 inches.

Size 3 is a "nominal" 1 1/2 inch carb with throttle opening of approximately 1 5/8 and center to center mounting of 2 15/16 inches.

 

Checking the Carter literature, THERE IS NO BB-1 THAT MAY BE BOLTED ON SUCCESSFULLY WITHOUT MODIFICATIONS!

 

The 289s or 289sa may be used (with the 72-39 cross-flange adapter), but THE INTERNAL JETTING MUST BE CHANGED. Yes, I know both have the adjustable MAIN metering jet, but the power jet must also be changed.

 

There are few (if any) ORIGINAL Stromberg UX-2 or UX-3 carburetors that are still usable left in our solar system! They are both die-cast (pot metal) and have all cracked to pieces.

 

A gentleman in Australia has reproduced the UX-2 castings. One can acquire those castings, and an original Stromberg UX-2 for float, throttle shaft, etc., and copies of the original Stromberg UX-2 bill-of-material and fabricate the jets; and have a working carburetors as Dodge used in EARLY 1928.

 

HOWEVER: GUESSING here that Dodge was not happy with the performance of the smaller UX-2, and cast a new intake manifold for the larger UX-3 in mid-1928. 

 

Stromberg started with the type A carburetor in 1909, and was up to the type U in 1928. But the type O, one type back from the T, was brass. Several enthusiasts have acquired the earlier type O (in your case either the OX-2 - early, or OX-3 - late), and calibrated them like the newer die-cast U series carbs for their specific applications.

 

I do not have serial number break-downs on when the carburetors were changed in 1928. 

 

I would highly suggest attempting to find the later manifold IF IT WILL FIT THE ENGINE, I DO NOT KNOW (the Senior Six was also available with the Stromberg UX-3 in 1929). Now you have a manifold with sufficient airflow, and you can make a decision on a carburetor. Choices would be recast a UX-3, recalibrate an OX-3, or, if you prefer, some replacement such as a properly modified Carter BB-1 289s/sd.

 

This is a classic example of what Ed has preaching for years about using original carbs. Different carbs sometimes MAY be used, but rarely in a haphazard fashion; research is necessary for best results.

 

As to the Carter BB-1: other than O.E. applications, the enthusiast should be interested ONLY in the 245s,sa,sd, the BB-1A,BB-1D, and the 289sa, and 289sd. Then Carter documentation should be consulted for absolute fit, as in this case. Those engineers REALLY did know what they were doing!

 

Jon

[trini]

Thank you Jon. About 8 years ago a kindly blogger on this forum sent me a barn find of a ux-2 for the cost of shipping. The body was all cracked up but the parts were intact. Cyndy Meyers sent the old parts and had a new casting made. Beautiful job. I transfered the parts. THE PROBLEM  IS , I TRIED ON THIS FORUM .No one was able to guide me as to how to hook up the lever to the pedal cross shaft. You probably know the cross shaft of the gas pedal runs through the engine block. I also had a UX- 3 but the mounting bolts will not line up. You answered that question correctly. When I bought the car it was not running but there was a stromburg UL6 bolted on with an adapter. That is the incorrect carb and I ditched it. I will try to  source one of those carbs you suggested .

 

Thank you very much 

[carbking]

Trini - I have not seen them all!

 

Most of the OX-2's and OX-3's that I have seen have a threaded boss cast into the top casting of the carburetor. A threaded smooth stud is screwed into this threaded boss. An "L" shaped turnbuckle slides over the stud, and is held in place by a cotter pin through a hole in the end of the stud. The turnbucket, when rotated on the stud, rotates the direction of the throttle pull 90 degrees. I haven't seen enough UX-2 and UX-3 carbs that are complete to say if the same idea was used.

 

I would really try to determine if the later manifold will fit, and source one of those. The engine performance will be significantly better with the larger carburetor.

 

Jon

[edinmass]

Jon sure knows his stuff..........over the years I have adapted carburetors on vehicles and it’s very difficult at best. It takes time, money, time, time, time, testing, time, testing........get the idea? Most people don’t realize virtually every pre war car was under carbureted....... basically restricting engine RPM working as a governor..... same thing with the small tail pipes. If you take an old tired engine and put a big carburetor on it and make exhaust breathe.......... it will run like lightning....... till it explodes. The only time I’m comfortable adapting a different carburetor is when we do a complete rebuild of the engine. Then everything is a known circumstance. You need to five  a gas exhaust machine,  an ignition analyzer with an oscilloscope,  and the chassis dynamometer to get it right. For years I had all of those in my shop. Years of playing with pre war big cars has given me a decent insight on cars over 320 cid. We probably have adapted 100 cars total over the years. We have never burned a valve, melted a piston, or washed down an engine. We also established a base line with stock carburetors on many chassis.........it was a great advantage having all the correct equipment to develop the statistics and actual real word data to get cars dialed in. We have made carburetors for Type 57SC, Duesenberg, Stutz, Packard, Auburn, Pierce, Stude, Hupp, and a bunch of others and can now just build good working units based on past installations. We also did a bunch of special carbs for right hand drive vehicles which are another handful........

 

Here is a Bugatti Type 57SC carb we built. It’s a UUR-2 casting and horn, everything else is new....made in house. The hardware is very difficult to get right. 75 percent of the Bugatti 57’s have incorrect carburetors on them, and they won’t idle worth a crap, and start hard. We have done a bunch of these all over the world. Notice the correct Zinc Chromate treatment on the body.........

 

Edited December 3, 2021 by edinmass (see edit history)

[Steve Moskowitz]

To me, this is when our forum works the best, when true experts jump in and provide great information.  Kudos to Jon and Ed for taking the time.  Ed obviously is spending a lot less time at the bar these days.  Probably hurting the economy down there!  

[edinmass]

Yup......bar time is at a minimum lately........we will make up for it in Philly!

[trini]

I have 3 persons to thank tonight.

Carbking,

edinmass and 

Steve Moscowitch.

 

The common proverb is "when you hang around the fire of wisdom you also absorb some of the heat ".

 

Thank you all

[Peter R.]

On 12/2/2021 at 10:30 PM, edinmass said:

Here is a Bugatti Type 57SC carb we built. It’s a UUR-2 casting and horn, everything else is new....made in house.

Ed,

Out of curiosity, are you using 1-1/8" or 1-3/16" venturi tubes on the T57?

 

Peter