Guest imported_RAH Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 I do not mean to keep bringing up controversial subjects, but twenty or so years ago I saw this 25 year upper limit was, and I believe still is, a flawed concept while trying to maintain the term 'Antique Automobiles'! These 60's, 70's and now nearly 80's cars are no more antique than am I! Well, perhaps I could have used a better example but you get my point. I do acknowlege there is interest in these more modern iron and have no problem with that, but continuing to refer to them as 'Antique' is rather anachronistic! O.K so now you all know I am one of those cantankerous old curmudgeons who steadfastly refuses to expand his interest base to include Hot Rods OR Modern Iron!! I would like to believe I am not alone in that, but if that is the case so be it!Perhaps the only thing that infuraites me more is the improper over use of the word 'Restored' in reference to our old cars. Recently I saw an ad for a Professional Restoration Shop touting their recent 100% frame off restoration of a 1919 Dodge Brothers touring. They proudly refer to it's "Beautiful Brewster Green Metallic paint and Dark green upholstry". EXCUSE ME!! Webster's Dictionary defines 'Restored' as "To return to original condition"! There was NEVER a '19 Dodge Brothers touring with Metallic, let alone Green paint. And, the leather upholstry was Black as was the body. This is a prime example of what 'Restored' is NOT! I believe we, as owners or proprietors of our little bits of History have a duty or at least an obligation to present our cars in as authentic condition as possible. Future generations will have no idea about the past if we continue to muddle it up with 'Artistic Expression' particularly as was done with Rods, of whatever description! I do take issue with the Judges rules, however in that I believe 'Period Acdessories' should be a legitimate expression of how the original owner would have used his car in every day life, much as cars today are similarly accessorize by their owners. I doubt seriously, however if anyone in his right mind would take a brand shiny new car from the showroom, still in warranty, disassemble it and repaint and reupholster it to satisfy a personal desire. And, it would have been even more absurd in 1919!!That having been said, I believe Rods, of whatever technical description, nor Modern Iron have NO business being shown or referred to as 'ANTIQUE AUTOMOBILES'!! Thank You! It's NOT too late to change! To paraphrase on of our more vocal members, "Don't Believe the Hype!"Rodger "Dodger" Hartley1915 Dodge Brothers Roadster1928 Dodge Brothers Cabriolet1934 Dodge Brothers KC pickup1958 BMW Isetta 300 motovoupe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest J446 Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 The one area that I think one needs to be flexable is safety. Seat belts, safety glass, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 That 25 year limit did work pretty well for a long time. As far as driving down the road and seeing another car that looked NOTICEABLY different than modern cars of the day. In the early 60's anything from the 30's with running boards and completely different styling definitely looked "antique" Gaudy 50's styling did look antique in the 70's. My 72 Dodge Dart actually turns heads when driving it today, so guess it has aged into an "antique" look. Surprises me too. "What are they looking at?" think I. You know you are driving an antique, when get high fives from other drivers and "WOW, nice car, what year is it?" when stopped at a traffic light. Do the cars of the late 70's (long hood, short deck)look "antique" compared to the "soapbar" styling of today? That's debateable although there is a definite styling difference. Don't turn heads yet when see them on the road. Just an old car so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John W. Harvey Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 RAH,At what model year should we then use as the cut-off for the membership to be able to "show" their "antique" cars in the ANTIQUE Automobile Club of America?In my humble "modern" opinion, your statements:1)"These 60's, 70's and now nearly 80's cars are no more antique than am I!" 2)"nor [color:"red"]Modern Iron have NO business being shown or referred to as 'ANTIQUE AUTOMOBILES'!!"are just another good way to discourage "youngsters" from getting involved in the AACA.My guess is.......that you'll probably want to judge the "modern iron" to help eliminate them from the show field. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest leadfoot Posted January 14, 2003 Share Posted January 14, 2003 Roger -Back in 1963/64 there was a "debate" within the AACA as to the proper definition of what constituted "antique automobile". Great cars just coming into the 25 year range like a '39 Buick were considered old used cars by the AACA purists - only brass era would do.The Secretary (or Treasurer) of the Chesapeake Region had a well restored '39 Buick at that time, but apparently wanted to get on the "right side" of the "antique" controversy. So he bought a member's 1923 Dodge, which needed a total restoration to keep from becoming one of those wasting rust/deterioration casualities. He sold the Buick and restored the DB, which I now have. Saving the DB was certainly a nice gesture, but the '39 Buick was (and is) just as deserving, then and now. I wasn't in the AACA that far back, but Dynaflash was and recounted this story to me several years ago.But I guess that you're suggesting there are "proper antique cars" and others of the same vintage that are not. I still like my late 60s - early 70s muscle cars and those mid 70s GM convertibles are also nice. And much as I dislike saying it, even a 1977 AMC Pacer is a qualified antique car. After all it's part of the automotive history you and some other DB club members are always promoting. Today's younger AACA members will more easily relate to cars of their youth and so why shouldn't the AACA be inclusive of all cars 25 years and over?However, I believe you are spot on with the over-restoration observation. And, I also agree that driving these old cars with useful aftermarket period accessories should be part of the antique car experience. Keep-em-Dodgin <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronbarn Posted January 14, 2003 Share Posted January 14, 2003 One of the arguments against the 25 year rule goes like this - "Do you think this is what our founding member intended for the AACA?" When the club was formed in 1935 two of the key organizers were proudly driving a 1909 car, just 26 years old and many of the antiques shown in the initial gatherings were even newer. Before their deaths a few years ago, I asked the last three original founders what they thought about the direction of the club and specifically about the 25 year rule - they absolutely thought that we were doing the right thing for the hobby. I have read every issue of the original AACA Bulletin and the Antique Automobile. This has been an active argument for many years (long before the internet and discussion forum). I personally have no great interest in cars from the mid-60s to the 25 year rule, but will never oppose the rule. It is the proper approach for the AACA and the hobby. It is really a matter of the broad club membership perspective, not just individual perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 14, 2003 Share Posted January 14, 2003 Pretty nebulous territory here, what's antique to one person is modern to another.I'll just say one thing about safety glass. Lester Cutting and Henry Austin Clark, 2 friends whose advice and knowledge I constantly drew upon and learned from told me of an incident way back in 1947 I think in New York City, there was a parade of antique cars driving down 5th ave, one of which was a brass model T, the passenger being the guy's wife. For some crazy reason something hit the windshield, which being plate glass shattered instantly with one large shard severing the main artery in the woman's leg resulting in her death.I have never forgotten this and ALL of my cars have had safety glass installed, a precaution I was once very grateful for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 14, 2003 Share Posted January 14, 2003 I think the '39 Buick has the best looking and most innovative front end treatments of any car of any time. Could have bought one (a 2 door coupe) in 1960, but didn't have the $300 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Dwight V. Posted January 15, 2003 Share Posted January 15, 2003 Well, maybe I can offer another perspective.I think the 25 year rule is acceptable. What is the downside to this rule? So the Hershey field has a row of 70's emissions personal luxury coupes and a Vega...big deal. Shouldn't ruin your day, parked over with the pre-war stuff, now should it?I don't care for most 70's cars either (though see contradictory sig below), but they are a piece of automotive history that illustrates the downfall of the 60s performance years. Like it or not, some people grew up with this stuff and probably have fond memories associated with it, so will maintain and restore these old barges. I'll be the same thoughts were discussed in relation to those old, heavy chrome barges of the 50s once!Point on this subject is, there is room enough for everyone. Ultimately we are out there to enjoy cars and preserve history, as I see it. Just a different generation is all.Restoration...now there's an over-used term! And it's generally non-car types that use it incorrectly.Restored is putting something back to the way it was originally. Anything else is over-restoration, customizing or rebuilding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_RAH Posted January 15, 2003 Share Posted January 15, 2003 John, Before you go getting your shorts in a bunch let me assure you I have NO interest in attempting to judge, or in any way affect your 'Modern Iron'! I believe you will find we are both passionate about our relative fields of interest and that our differences are more a matter of semantics. That is as it should be! I simply posed the question "When does 'Antique' end and simply 'Old' start?? There seems to be a fuzzy line here I was just trying to get defined. I am now resigned to the fact that there probably never be a concensus on that! I DO agree we need to get younger people involved in the hobby, but if by 'involved' you mean allowing them to cut up, modify, and basically turn antique cars into 'RODS' I couldn't disagree more!! Let us instead educate them as to what the hobby is about.I have over the years observed many diferent reasons why people get involved with antique automobiles. For some it is simply a matter of economics. They invest, buy, sell and trade old cars like commodities on the exchange. Their interest is no more or less than "What's it worth?". For others it is more of a pseudo Religion in that they become as one with their car and let it take them to a simpler time and place. For some, like myself, it is more of a challange dragging that rusty piece of junque that normal people have thrown away and bringing it back to life. Restoring it to it's former glory. And I mean that in the dictionarial meaning as 'to return to original condition'! There are many hours of research and documentation involved before a wrench or torch are fired up. For some it is a simple diversion from the harsh reality of daily life, and for others it is perhaps more of an ego trip reveling in the looks and head turning as they drive down the road in something not readily available to the masses. Whatever your reason, I thought we shared something in common. The name of this organization 'ANTIQUE AUTOMOBILE CLUB of AMERICA' would lead one to believe our primary focus would be 'Automobiles' as opposed to trucks, busses, motorcycles, tractors, race cars, hotrods, et all. And that these automobiles would be of such vintage that they would be considered 'Antique' as compared to others! Apparantly I am mistaken!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John W. Harvey Posted January 15, 2003 Share Posted January 15, 2003 RAH,Yes, you got "my shorts in a bunch"! I'm not on here to fight or debate, but you made the comment: )[color:"red"]"Modern Iron have NO business being shown" You also have twisted or misunderstood my written statement: [color:"red"]another good way to discourage "youngsters" from getting involved in the AACA. I didn't say "hobby" as you stated, I said AACA. By becoming involved in the AACA, I mean as stated by the AACA: "The aim of the AACA is the perpetuation of the pioneer days of automobiling by furthering the interest in and preserving of antique automobiles, and the promotion of sportsmanship and of good fellowship among all AACA members. The AACA uses the term "automobile" in a comprehensive sense to include all self-propelled vehicles intended for passenger use (cars, race vehicles, trucks, fire vehicles, motorcycles, powered bicycles, etc.). Similarly, the term includes various power sources, such as gasoline, diesel, steam and electric.By getting involved, I also mean attending meets, getting involved in the judging process (something that you "have NO interest in"), helping and supporting the AACA in many other ways.You can pick and choose what items you want to re-explain, but this is my 2nd post waiting for you to explain why [color:"red"]"Modern Iron have NO business being shown" John <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hal Davis (MODEL A HAL) Posted January 15, 2003 Share Posted January 15, 2003 Mr. Hartley,You say that as if you believe that trucks, busses, motorcycles, and race cars somehow don't fit into the AACA. I intentionally left out the tractors and hot rods. As far as tractors go, I have a keen interest in them, but satisfy that interest through other clubs. Hot rods? Well, we won't re-open that can of worms. The others, though? What's wrong with an antique truck? Does it not deserve a place on the same show field as an antique car? As rare as antique busses are, wouldn't you like to see a fine example of one from the twenties or thirties? What about a Mercer Raceabout or a Harley Davidson from the teens? Do you mean to imply that these vehicles don't belong in AACA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amphicar BUYER Posted January 15, 2003 Share Posted January 15, 2003 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That having been said, I believe Rods, of whatever technical description, nor Modern Iron have NO business being shown or referred to as 'ANTIQUE AUTOMOBILES'!! Thank You! It's NOT too late to change!</div></div> RAH - Remember your exact quote could have been said in 1930 referring to the "modern Iron" of the 20's & 30's. 25 years old is 25 years old! <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> In 1954 a 1929 (anything) was a 25 year old piece of junk that now may be worth millions. Cars of the 70's - 90's do little for me personally, but they are all on thier way to being antique and collectable none the less. A hot rod, tractor, truck, or any transportation has it's place in history and should by all means be shown. Who are you to say they have no value to the public or historians let alone thier custodians <span style="font-weight: bold">(remember we don't "own" them per se, we are only the care takers)</span> . They all have done thier time and deserve to be appreciated and cared for whether you or I like them or not. John "who loves all cars, young and old" Bevins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 OK---everyone---RELAX--------REMEMBER_ This is a HOBBY for 99% of us and I personally can see something good or interesting in anything with wheels-----When viewing vehicles at a show, if they don"t interest you---KEEP ON GOING. It's similar to the flea areas, If Mustang or Corvette parts don't turn you on, keep walking and look for the T or A parts or Brass or whatever----Just my comments-------------SKY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Green Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 I for one would like to see the year rule changed from 25 years to 35 or 40 years. It might just allow the modern antique vehicles in most peoples eyes to age a little more and possibly be more accepted when the time comes for showing and be thought of as an antique. Just my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John W. Harvey Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 Ron,I understand your point...........but it will likely never happen! The AACA would lose tooooooo much revenue!Sky,True, this is a hobby for a large portion of us. But according to RAH, you wouldn't even have the opportunity to "keep on going" if the vehicles at a show don't interest you! According to RAH,[color:"red"] "Modern Iron have NO business being shown". John <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Dwight V. Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 We're meandering off topic a bit, but I just had a thought after reading the last few posts I think I should share.I've been reading a lot of the controversial threads on this board on/off for the last 2 years. I joined AACA last year but didn't renew this year simply because I didn't get anything out of it (another thread; and I'm not complaining).But...It seems all of these threads about 'modern' cars, race cars, hot rods, imports and commercial vehicles all have something in common: someone wants to exclude someone else. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />I thought the purpose of a club was to be inclusive?What is the big deal? The show field is large enough for everyone. Stay in your own area and don't look at the stuff that bugs you if that's how you feel. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />Personally, I like anything with wheels, and look at it all. You might be shocked to know I spend the most time looking at the pre-war stuff. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> Just because I can't afford one doesn't mean I'm not interested. I may have spoken with you about your car. Does this mean if I also owned a '74 Impala you suddenly would cease speaking to me?This isn't supposed to be an exclusive boy's club...it's a car club.25 years old works for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John W. Harvey Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 To All, I know this is off the topic.........but it fits in with the overall theme of the discussion taking place.Dwight, I'm not debating your decision to not renew your membership with the AACA. That is a personal decision........and I respect your honesty.From my point of view, the AACA and other clubs are a lot like life in general....you only get out of it what you are willing to put in it. I view my membership to the AACA, VCCA, and NMCOA as a "thank you" for continuing to promote the hobby that my family and I soooo enjoy. The AACA, along with other organizations are very instumental in monitoring, lobbying, and preventing restrictive legislation that some of our leaders try to enact. Some of the legislation would/could basically kill the hobby that we sooooo enjoy!My membership is also a "thank you" for organizing "reunions" (sometimes refered to a National Meets). I wouldn't put a price tag on the friendships that I have made at national meets with all of the organizations that I mentioned. Cindy and I also enjoy the "hobby, within the hobby".......judging and learning more and more about all automobiles, regardless of age, make, body style, or owners likes or dislikes. If I were to evaluate the AACA based solely on the nice "Antique Automobile" magazine that I get........I would lose interest quickly. When is the last time you read any story on a 70's anything?John <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 One more comment-----I purchased my first old car----a 1928 Model A -right after high school graduadion in 1957. Tomorrow is our 40th wedding anniversary and my wife will still tell you that on our first date, I took her to the storage area to see my FORD----honest!!!!!! We have pictures of our children as babies in play pens at car shows etc--My point---Friends---We have made the greatest friends over the years all over the country from car activities. We are active in AACA, NAOC ( National Vice President ), VCCA, and the northeast regional PALS club etc.-- Enjoy the hobby, make friends, venture out and Enjoy.-----Life is too short and I don't like the alternative-------SKY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronbarn Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 Sky, You said it all! I also graduated in '57 and it was a grand time to get into old cars - they were what we could afford. I've been around AACA (and some other clubs like the VCCA) and been known to take on some responsibilities from time to time. We need to enjoy the hobby and not waste a lot of time trying to find things we don't like - just do it! <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_RAH Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 P.S. to John W. Harvey, Sheesh, I give up already!! Sorry, I got home late last night and didn't feel like getting on line! You guys love to pick select phrases out of context don't you? I forgot to mention one other reason people get 'involved' in the hobby (notice I did NOT say the AACA?) is the fellowship and comraderie of sharing with others of like mindset or any combination of this and any of the previous mentioned reasons.To all you who CHOOSE to 'restore' more modern iron of the '60's / '70's you have a much more awesome task in these with more sophisticated electronics, vaccuum systems, and extensive use of plastics than any of us with our teens, '20's or even '30's cars (pot metal excluded) ever had. My hat's off to you and keep up the good work. Some day your cars will be 'Antique' too! Sorry, I couldn't help myself! So you do not get the completely wrong impression, I too graduated in '58 and my first 'old' car was a '31 Model A Ford Murray bodied town sedan that I had during my senior year. I do appreciate glancing over a nicely done 'Stang'. I just probably wouldn't make a place in the garage for one. You go ahead and do your thing and I'll just look on! Thank you!! Rodger "Dodger" Hartley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 The one styling concept from G.M. that I think will take a VERY long time to be considered "antique" is their styling from late 70's to almost 1990. G.M. used a very generic styling concept for all their cars for about 12 years. It is hard to distinguish a Chevy from a Buick for most of 12 years without getting up very close. Very hard to tell year from year and marque from marque. (I suppose that is what got G.M. in trouble at the time. Hung on to a design concept for WAY too long.) Not bad looking cars really. But there are just SOO many of them on the road today. Common as dirt. This includes my daily driver, an 83 Buick Regal, which even though is only 5 years away from being an "antique", looks like 1/2 the cars driving on the road today (some exageration there). And that 83 design was over 5 years old in 1983. Great car to drive if you want to be anonymous. Have a funny feeling that in 5 years when my Buick is an "antique" I will be able to be just as anonymously driving an "old car" as now. Eventually of course, given enough time, all those generic 80's G.M.'s will be considered "antique" by the average onlooker. And only then will it REALLY be an antique. When that happens, I don't know, but much longer than 25 years.Remember when Model T's and Model A's were also common as dirt? I could have bought a 1929 Ford Model A for $50 in 1960 in good running condition and with a pretty good body. I ended up buying a 39 Plymouth coupe for $45 (1) Because it was $5 cheaper than the Model A and (2) because it could go a whole lot faster. And (3) Because I thought the Plymouth was a whole lot prettier and more reliable car. It was and still is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Dwight V. Posted January 18, 2003 Share Posted January 18, 2003 To J.W. Harvey: thanks for kindly commenting on my brief membership. Like I said, it's a whole other thread really, but to address some of your (good) comments--The magazine is okay, but not reason enough to join. I agree that the main focus of belonging to a club should be meeting people and going to events. Heck, I live minutes from Hershey, so you'd think this wouldn't be a problem. Well, here's sort of what I ran into.I race hill climbs with SCCA and do some track events. Driving events are my main thrust right now. They are expensive and time consuming. I have two 'antique' cars, neither of which is AACA show field quality stuff. The Fiat is nice enough but one of those never-quite-finished projects. The truck is a recent purchase but won't be 100% stock (purists will be annoyed, street rodders will wonder why it just has wheels and disc brakes on it). I enjoy going to the shows more than showing. AACA is sort of like the SCCA in that after joining the big club, you then need to contact and get involved in (and pay dues to) the local chapter. I'm already spending nearly $100/yr on SCCA and licenses, and I just wasn't getting my money's worth from AACA. Not that it is a bad value, my focus right now isn't on that. Maybe in another 10 years.I'm not getting my money's worth because I'm not participating, and that is my own fault. I know very well that 'being there' is essential to enjoying a club, and the people make it enjoyable. I helped start the national club for Fiats back in 1986 or so. We now have 600 or so members. Folks who come to our national meet once are hooked for life, because the people are so great. Members who sell their cars still come back because they want to see their friends.No complaints about the club; just isn't the right time for me to be a member. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB-ed Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 An annoying attitude has been expressed several times in the discussion of this topic--that we need these "newer cars" to attract younger members (and some would extend this to include "hot rods"). Not only is it not true that "younger people" do not like prewar cars, but also this attitude is devastating this corner of the hobby. How often at local shows do I see owners of prewar cars avoiding or ignoring younger people only because they assume these people have no interest? In fact, there is a discussion on this site specifically about "dumb questions" and the rude responses given to people who just may have a sincere interest in these cars.Fact is, we see from memberships in many "marque" clubs, and the Dodge Brothers Club (1914-1938) specifically, that "younger" people are nicely entering the prewar hobby. I suspect it's the WW-2 generation that is perpetuating this attitude and I wish they would stop as it does hurt the prewar hobby.The challenge to my comments always arrives in the form of "where are all these young hobbiests?" The answer is that they do not have the luxury of time to attend day-long shows, week-long tours, evening meetings. They have jobs and families to attend to. But they have the cars in the garage and work actively on them.RAH is reacting to a very real frustration in having the clubs dominated by these "newer" cars. While I have no problem with saving and collecting these cars, I really have little in common with their owners short of that vague umbrella "interest in cars." We can't really duscuss parts sources, technical problems, availability of services, etc because it's rare one source can handle the full 100 year history of the motor vehicle. Hence, we stick with our own kind.Maybe it's time for AACA to spin off into pre and post war. It would make the swap meets, shows and virtually everything else much more manageable for all concerned. Or better yet, (horror of horrors) a new prewar car club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 To have a WW2 cut-off would lose an awful lot of people interested in what they consider "antique" cars. There is a tremendous interest in the transitional period from right after the war throughout the early 50's until what most would consider a "modern" type car in the late 50's. And even those so called modern "boats" up till about 1980 definitely look "antique" compared to todays cars. The 25 year cut off is not perfect, but it does allow many people with a common interest (an interest in antique cars, various particular preferances aside) to share that interest. Hot rods and customised cars are another story altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hal Davis (MODEL A HAL) Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 JB-ed,I don't think allowing later model cars in order to attract younger members is so much about younger people not being intersted in older cars so much as it is that younger people can't afford the older cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 Hal, Once the door was opened for the new cars owners of the old ones left them at home and arrived at meets in the new cars. Why hand crank a brass era car when you can showup in the 25 year old crewcab or Suburban you bought to tow it to far away meets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB-ed Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 Prices of pre-war cars are fantastic right now. You can get into a (non-classic) 1920s car comfortably under $10K "drive it home" and for easy restoration in the $5K range and maybe less. See eBay. Prices were "fanstic-er" five years ago but they are creeping up again, unfortunately. A tremendous number of HPOF "barn fresh" cars are turning up right now, either the late grandpa's project he never got to or a hot rodder changing his mind. Again, see eBay or local 'car trader' magazines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest leadfoot Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 JB-ed:I don't know what third world country you live in, but in the good ole US you can't "restore" any 20s era car for $5,000. Of course, this brings us back to the thread subject - what does "restored" mean? If your definition is just get it running, well maybe. If you mean restore the car to what it looked like and ran like 75 +/- years ago, good luck! <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 21, 2003 Share Posted January 21, 2003 Not to kick a dead horse too much, but:A 2nd WW cut off would leave out what seems to me anyway to be the most EXCITING period of automotive history. Amazing the changes from 1947 to 1959, both in styling and engine and technical design. Air conditioning, automatic transmissions, power windows, powerful overhead valve V-8's. All became available to the average Joe during this short period.To leave out this wonderful period in time would be a tragedy. The dramatic styling changes year to year (or 3 year to 3 year) was the most dramatic in the history of the automobile. These cars are true antiques in any sense of the word. These cars are some of the most deserving to be cherished and restored and be respected for what they were.== A time in American automobile history the likes of which we will never see again. And only lasted about 12 years in all. (Boy do I love to hear the sound of the last Ford flatheads. A sound like no other. Felt you could do 100 by the sound of that motor. If hit 80 were lucky.) Was an illusion, just like the sound of a Harley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 21, 2003 Share Posted January 21, 2003 No way to really resolve it.Beauty and "antique" are in the eye of the beholder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 21, 2003 Share Posted January 21, 2003 May I offer a suggestion, vis-a-vis, 'Antique' classifications on cars from the 70's and 80's. Age is less an arbiter of value or interest than a common roman coin. I can buy a very fine (grading label) bronze roman denari from 50 AD for $50 on e-bay. THAT item is an antique. (Technically ancient but who's splitting hairs right? <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />) May I suggest that autos after the introduction of catalysts and the commensurate reduction in power be categorically termed 'Special Interest'? To me, a classic automobile should exhibit 3 key characteristics. To be a true 'classic' generally speaking, it should have the best of style, performance and innovation for it's time. Any car made after 1975 in America can't legitimize it's claim with that criteria. The performance did a nose-dive until the early 90's overall. Some are special, but based upon the criteria I've laid out, the vast majority are not. Innovation in the late 70's and 80's in Detroit was an embarassment and an insult to any rational person. Even "Hallmark" badges such as Cadillac did more to embarass and enrage even the most loyal of owners owners during this period, with the regrettable introduction of a continuing series of poorly executed and short-sighted powerplant gaffes. i feel that the only Cadillac that would fit my modest criteria as a future classic would be the 1992 Allante with a Northstar, and the 1991 STS. Those cars have all 3 items in my 'hit parade' <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />As with the roman coin illustration, the reason that they may be had so cheaply, is that there were were over 20 million minted in a 1,000 year period. But, there are some that due to again, beauty, execution and historical interest are worth truly, an emperor's ransom. Age is but a label, and value is commensurate to interest. Just my thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 21, 2003 Share Posted January 21, 2003 I think the discussion was about antique cars, not Classic cars. Completely different subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest leadfoot Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 Watch that loose use of classic when you mean antique. We don't want to be reprimanded by any Peter Hartmann look/sound alikes, do we? <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 Guys, I am new to the AACA, but I do have the right to tell you about my feelings. Here in the state of Pennsylvania, a car that is 15 years old is a classic (my 88Chevy, everyday truck). A car that is 25 years old is an antique (my 56Ford, Old mans toy). The stupid part is if I joined that big street rod organization even my 56 wouldnot be elegible to join because it came out of Detriot after 1946. So now the question becomes how old does the truck have to be?!?!? <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John W. Harvey Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 talltim17364,Welcome to the AACA! Small technical adjustment if I may.....In Pennsylvania, if your vehicle is 15 years old, you can apply for "Classic Plates". If your vehicle is 25 years old, you can apply for "Antique Plates". The application does not guarantee approval and receipt of the plates. Receiving the plates will not make it a "Classic" or "Antique". <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />Oh no........here we, (I) go again! <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />John <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_RAH Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 Let me write this VERY slowly so no one will misunderstand exactly what I am saying, and please stop pulling words and statements out of context! I do NOT have a problem with 'mpodern iron' or with the owners thereof. Nor do I have a problem with Hot Rods per se. At the risk of sounding obnoxiously redundant, the problem I have in my mind's eye is with the loose, liberal, all encompassinginterpretation of AACA policy with regard to the word 'Automobile' as to mean anything with wheels, and 'Antique' as to mean anything from the Duryea Brothers to an arbitrary 25 years ago!! It's just as simple as that! Can any of you AACA policy historians tell me precisely when this loose interpretation of automotive history was implimented as the club's mission statement? I realize the 25 year upper limit only goes back to 1975! I was born and raised in central Pa. and remember Hershey when it was just another swap meet and, oh by the way, on Sunday there was a car show! I do not recall there being sooo many classes of things other than cars.I still believe by trying to be all things to all people we are loosing focus as to what 'Antique Automobiles' is all about. Note I am NOT talking about DIS'ing or EXcluding ANYONE. I simply think we should NOT be so $%*& INclusive!!There are MANY specialty clubs for those other venues. I believe my point here is WHY has the AACA gotten involved in 'Automotive History' and all those other venues?? It makes about as much sense as a Certified Electrician taking jobs in house painting and carpentry, and subbing on weekends as a plumber!! After a while you loose track of what you are good at, or even interested in! NOW does my question make any more sense?? Rodger "Dodger" Hartley1915 Dodge Brothers Roadster1928 Dodge Brothers Cabriolet1934 Dodge Brothers KC Pickup1958 BMW Isetta 300 motocoupe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hal Davis (MODEL A HAL) Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 RAH,I'm not sure what your definition of "antique" is. There was once an individual on this DF that defined it something along the lines of a vehicle having antique features such as external contracting brakes and several other things that I can't remember right now. His antique period was rather short by comparison, and fell somewhere between the "vintage" period and the "classic" period, it seems. Bear with me. I don't remember exactly what the definitions were. I thought he was being rather picky so chose not to commit them to memory. I am afraid that if we were to allow only "automobiles", to the exclusion of trucks, busses, motorcycles, tractors, racecars, and hotrods, and then excluded all "automobiles" that didn't fit some individual's definition of "antique", then this would be a small club indeed.My guess is that most clubs would like to increase their membership. I know I would like to increase the membership of our local region. If that takes accepting a Ford AA truck with its internal expanding brakes, then I guess we'll just have to sell our souls and let them in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 My first trip to the AACA meet in Hershey was back in 1969, and I haven't missed one since. Back then there was a 1940 cutoff date for cars on the show field, and PARTS in the fleamarket, yes it was very close to Heaven. I don't know the exact year, but the Millers saw that the post 1940 crowd needed a swap meet as well, so the Carlisle Swap Meet was ceated and held the weekend, just down the road from Hershey. I can't prove it, but always thought that the powers that be in AACA at the time saw dollars and future members driving down the road to the postwar meet. The 25 year survive the crusher and you have an "Antique" rule was then put in place, and the membership pool will be ever expanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R W Burgess Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 Talltim! Don't fret about the "big" rod group not wanting your '56 Ford. Just slip on over to the GoodGuys Rod and Custom Club. They'd love to have you. You can even bring your 70's model car to some of their shows. Good to see you here too though. I always thought a man could belong to more than one club without offending anyone. Wayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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