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I recently bought a 1935 LaBaron coupe, I feel like I was in the right place at the right time to purchase it, I am extremely happy to have it.  I have spent many hours sorting it out to get it in driving condition as it sat for 4-5 years?  I want to tour with it, not show it.  It still has a few issues that I will attend to shortly.  The biggest issue it has (had I hope) was that every time I started it up and let it warm up it would dump some water out of the over flow tube on the radiator.  At first I just thought it was just trying to find it's happy spot in the radiator but every time it would dump water regardless of fluid leave in the radiator,  it was not running hot at all, in fact it runs about 160 most of the time and on a 95 degree day it would run about 180-185.   I finally decided to take the heads of, I felt that I must be pressurizing the radiator with combustion.  After inspecting the gasket, heads and block there were two spot the could have possible been the problem, the water passages are very close to the cylinder bore and had eroded a little making the head gasket seal very close to the water passage.  Another issue is the head was held down with cap screws and not studs.  So the torque on a 7/16-14 vs 7/16-20 would be about 1,200-2,000 pounds force on the gasket depending on your torque on the bolt or nut.  I am hooping this will be the remedy on my problem.  I purchased the studs from ARP, and will use the correct  7/16-20 acorn nuts.   

My question to you is.  Would you use something like JB weld to reduce the water hole size and re drill it or try and silicone bronze TIG weld it.  I have fixed a few things with silicone bronze and I'm a good TIG welder, but not comfortable doing it myself, but I have a good friend that is the best welder I have ever seen.  He fixed a 1933 Chevy block for me with silicon bronze I was going to throw away.  Just curios if anyone has had an issue similar to this?

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Edited by AB-Buff (see edit history)
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  • AB-Buff changed the title to The 35 LaBaron Coupe issues

Do NOT JB weld that block. Heads on those cars are known nightmares. Also, use NOS gaskets, not reproduction if at all possible. That block needs to be cleaned and flushed. Do NOT run ARP studs. Your asking for more trouble than you realize. Ten to one you have bad heads.............

 

Before disassembly you should have done a chemical test for CO2. Too late now. Also common problem with this car is drawing air past the water pump causing air binding........on shut down it expands and pushes coolant out the overflow. The car looks very familiar to me...........like the one I knew in Fort Lauderdale back in the late 80’s. They are fantastic and reliable drivers.........but it takes time and money to get them reliable.

 

One more comment......if you weld or braze on that block, you will be looking for a new one. 

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
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Lets see, I got a lot of I should have and don't??? 

So if the engine did not have a heating issue why would the heads be bad? 

What's wrong with ARP studs?  they are designed to stretch and maintain the torque.

So no JB weld and do not TIG silicone braze the block.  So just leave it alone? Are you familiar with that process? 

 

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You asked for an opinion. I have fifty years of experience on pre war multi cylinder cars, and well over a hundred thousand miles of driving them. You are pushing water, and want to weld on a block that is irreplaceable. You haven’t even determined the cause of the excess purging, yet you pulled the engine apart already. You are  prepared to close up coolant holes in heads and blocks which makes no logical sense. The cars ran fine when new, didn’t overheat, and didn’t push water and didn’t have head gasket issues.  Properly diagnose and repair the car, don’t modify the cars coolant passages because you think there is design flaw when there isn’t one. It’s a neat, rare, unusual car that is very drivable when new and today. I have about two or three thousand miles of windshield time on an identical platform.........

 

I recommend you pressure test the heads while they off the car. Also I would pull the water pump and rebuild it with modern seals instead of packing, it will prevent air entering the system. A CO2 test would have eliminated any head gasket or head issues.......for less than the cost of the reproduction head gaskets. It would also prove  if the pump was sucking in air by process of elimination. It’s likely your heads are reproductions, as several shops have made them over the years and it’s rare to see original heads still on a car. Replacing the studs won’t fix anything, and it’s likely to cause problems if not done properly. 
 

The cap screws and not studs comes from the heads binding on the factory studs causing the heads to become impossible to remove. If it has the new heads it’s likely they were designed to use the bolts. The electrolysis sticking the heads on this engine are legendary.........again, see Matt Harwood’s thread on this engine. In the 70’s and 80’s a special cutter to slide over the studs and cut away the head was made so the heads could be removed in one piece. It was common in the old days that they were literally chiseled off.
 

Was this the car from Southern Florida? 
 

Looks like Egge pistons...........likely the motor was done quite a while ago.

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
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I'm not trying to pick a fight with you, I am an old fart also with 50 plus years of old car experience, this is not mu first rodeo.  You just relied don't do this and that without any suggestions so I asked why.

I think you misread my Post, I am not going to close up any water passage, re read my post, the thought was to fill it and re-drill it so there was more meat next to the cylinder to get a better chance of head gasket sealing.  Other Lincoln owners have suggested this to me as a good fix, I am still thinking about it.  The car runs excellent does not overheat, just pisses water out every time it runs regardless of the temperature, it's never been over 185, it's getting pressurized not over heating I thought I said that. No I don't think there is a design flaw.....

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No worries....not trying to be difficult. If you wanted to modify the block, the proper repair would be to stitch it and re-drill it. (No heat.) If possible compare a factory gasket to a modern reproduction to see if they are identical. Since you were no over heating it’s unlikely you were dumping combustion gasses into the system. It doesn’t “find its level”.............as most car do in several heat cycles. Combustion gasses would tend to constantly push while driving. You didn’t mention foaming.............another possibility causing it to air bind. 
 

 

What would I do now that it’s apart? 
 

Pressure test the heads.......not easy, but worth while. Check them to see if they are flat.

Rebuild the pump. If you see lots of scoring on the shaft it’s likely drawing air.

Run plain water while trying to diagnose the water pushing. Anti freeze and water pump lubricants tend to cover up air binding  issues. The symptoms of air should get much worse with plain water........

 

I would use a scope to look inside the block........it looks like you may have sediment in the system. See Matt Harwood’s Lincoln thread on a cracked block and head stud issues. He used my stitcher to fix his block. I would flush the system with evapo rust heated to 180 degrees. Unfortunately, you may have to reassemble and try it without finding a definitive answer to what was causing the issue. The “go to” guy on these engines passed away a few years ago.....(Ernie Foster)....I’m not sure if there is anyone around who has done dozens of these engines anymore. Can you give a more detailed account on the water pushing out? Volume? Time? Ect.

 

 

 

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
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On 1/16/2021 at 6:16 PM, edinmass said:

Since you were no over heating it’s unlikely you were dumping combustion gasses into the system. It doesn’t “find its level”.............as most car do in several heat cycles. Combustion gasses would tend to constantly push while driving. 
 

That's exactly the diagnosis that lead me to pulling the heads, you can see 2 spot where combustion may have crossed over to the water passage.  Replacing the cap screws with studs (studs are originally what Lincoln used) will put more force on the gasket and hopefully seal.   

 

 

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I have a set of Ernie Foster heads and may use them, I was saving them for another project but I may never get to that one.  The heads that were on the car appear to be original and in excellent shape but  I will probably go with Ernie's .  I have some steel NOS head gaskets that I will use.   The water pump looks excellent inside, it was rebuilt when the heat exchanger was replaced a few months ago.   As far as scoping the block, there are 3 large holes that apparently held the core when these were cast, you can fiscally look to the bottom when yo look in them. These cylinder block have no sediment and look extremely nice inside the water passages.  I have tried Evaporust on a few things and was not impressed with it, I don't think I need to run anything trough this anyway as it look great inside.  

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I also decided while I have tall the manifolds off to have them redone.  Originally they were coated with porcelain.  That looks extremely nice but has a tendency to crack and pop off.  I was told by a number of Lincoln guys if you want to drive it just do them in Ceramic, it looks good and wont's crack of pop off.  Because I will never show this car seriously and want to drive and tour with it I went with the Ceramic.  You can see a before and after.  I will post a finished picture when they are installed. 

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Lynn, that's a fantastic car you found. I'm very excited to see it back on the road! I am obviously watching this thread with great interest. Have you considered blocking off the exhaust crossovers under the carb? The guys at the Canton Car Museum, who know Lincolns about as well as anyone, told me to tap the holes in the manifold and use a plug to help keep the carburetor cooler, which I did. I don't know if it helps because of the limited driving I did in my car before taking it apart, but it certainly can't hurt on a model that's prone to heat issues.

 

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Where did you buy the acorn nuts you're using? I can only find them for like $4 each, which is ludicrous. And how long are the studs you used? My engine had three different length studs in it when I pulled it apart so I don't know which one is correct. Do you use slightly longer ones for the spark plug wire conduit mounting studs? So many little details that were wrong on my car that I need to correct but nobody knows the answers...

 

Edited by Matt Harwood (see edit history)
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Matt.......don't get too cheap on the nuts. The stud issue is the nut can bottom out and thus not give correct clamping force. So EACH stud must be measured without a gasket or washer with the head in place............and if they are too long, you get to remove them and cut them down. It's a LOT of work to do right. And there isn't a stud in the world that is correct length, so you must buy longer and cut them down.....then measure them, and go back and forth......hoping you don't pull the threads out of the block. Shallow nuts will bottom out ever single time......and you also have to check and adjust the length for the washers..............Having made both head bolts and studs for pre war cars by the thousands and sold them.......I know how much work it is. Also, most acorn nuts are made of Chineesium shit material........so they need to be tested to destruction to be sure they won't fail............seen it 100 times. We made all our nuts, bolts, and studs on CNC machines.......they came out fantastic.....but were not cheap.

 

Earnie's heads are great. I sure miss my old friend. As far as manifolds, we Jet Hot coat them. Works fantastic for drivers. My 36 Pierce 12 has 25K and thirty years on them, and they still look new. Porcelain is only for show cars.........and only lasts a few thousand miles.......maybe. I agree with Matt to block off the exhaust port heaters. We routinely do it on Cadillacs. 

 

One last comment..........usually combustion gasses that push water will leak internally when parked, causing the cylinder to wash down making them easy to spot......not 100 percent of the time...........95 percent. My guess is water pump or oil cooler if it has one......I can't remember, had my 37 Brunn back in the 80's. 

 

Did Ernie supply bolts with his heads? Last time I was at his shop he was doing a batch of them........but I just can't remember. Also, if you run studs..........think about milling the holes just a bit bigger around all the studs to be sure they won't bind in your lifetime. 

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
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On 1/18/2021 at 10:28 AM, Matt Harwood said:

Lynn, that's a fantastic car you found. I'm very excited to see it back on the road! I am obviously watching this thread with great interest. Have you considered blocking off the exhaust crossovers under the carb? The guys at the Canton Car Museum, who know Lincolns about as well as anyone, told me to tap the holes in the manifold and use a plug to help keep the carburetor cooler, which I did. I don't know if it helps because of the limited driving I did in my car before taking it apart, but it certainly can't hurt on a model that's prone to heat issues.

 

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Where did you buy the acorn nuts you're using? I can only find them for like $4 each, which is ludicrous. And how long are the studs you used? My engine had three different length studs in it when I pulled it apart so I don't know which one is correct. Do you use slightly longer ones for the spark plug wire conduit mounting studs? So many little details that were wrong on my car that I need to correct but nobody knows the answers...

 

Thanks Matt I am pretty exited about it.  I have about 500+ miles on it just messing around and sorting it out, love to drive it. I took a couple of photos of the studs, they are 3.250" long.  With that length I think you can use them every where.  There are only two of them on each side that are a little longer and that's the two you refer to that hold the spark plug conduit bracket, it's like .125-.187 longer.  I think with this stud length they will work in all the holes, as edinmass said you have to check each one to make sure the acorn nut doesn't bottom out.  As long as you have 1  1/2" the tread diameter threaded into the in the block you will be fine

 

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I got the Acorn nuts from Ray Theriault in Connecticut, I believe he has more, they are more than the ones you found but they are the correct shape and polished.  I was planning on blocking the exhaust off from the intake cross over.  I was going to drill and tap it but I think a blank gasket will do the job.  I have some gasket material that has a metals core, its used for head gaskets and manifold gaskets (at least that's what it says on the tech sheet) so I'm going to make the two big oval gaskets that connect the cross over to the two manifolds and make two blank ones for the old exhaust ports, there really isn't any pressure there having them both blocked, there no place for it to go.  As long as it doesn't burn out I'm good.  we will see, if it does I will plug the intake side, easy to take off and on.  When sorting the car out I had 4 thermocouples on a readout that I could monitor in the car.  I had 1 on the water inlet just after the water pump, 1 on the water outlet at the Y at the top of the radiator, 1 on the fuel inlet to the carburetor at the float bowl and one on the oil filter.  The one on the fuel at the float bowl ran pretty hot, like 130 F (95 degree day) at 140 ethanol starts to go from liquid to the gas state.  That's when I decided to make a new carb insulator block for under the carb and plug those two exhaust cross over holes in the manifold.  It's a good this to do.

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Edited by AB-Buff (see edit history)
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21 hours ago, edinmass said:

Did Ernie supply bolts with his heads? Last time I was at his shop he was doing a batch of them........but I just can't remember. Also, if you run studs..........think about milling the holes just a bit bigger around all the studs to be sure they won't bind in your lifetime. 

John Kocsis took over everything Ernie was doing, he still has heads made per Ernie's specifications.  To my knowledge he doesn't make the acorn nuts.  That is really good advice about giving the stud a little more clearance, hadn't thought about that.  That is the issue when trying to take one of these heads off that been on for a long time that had a little water seeping in past the threads, makes a long day of in taking them off... or week or more!

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You can use an adjustable reamer to do the holes........the aluminum will cut easy, no chance of a machine grabbing it too hard. Just do them by hand. I would use the copper head gasket spray on the gaskets from Permatex ............and I would use number two Permatex on thr threads. First time around on start up, I would run water with cutting oil........easier to clean up than antifreeze........no mess, and almost no cost. Works great till you get things sorted. It can go right down the drain in the event you have to drop the fluid while dialing in the car. Where are you located?

 

One last note....read Matt’s thread on his car......and the joy he has had dealing with R&R the studs........The late Lincoln’s can be a challenge to your checkbook and sanity. 

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
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I’m kind of fussy.........I would probably install the studs, and try and slide the head on. Ernie was clever......so I expect he possibly allowed some extra material to be removed. I would want the head to slide over all the studs EASILY............so I would figure from the standard factory holes .003-.005; probably closer to three. I would look at the head gaskets after they go over the studs..........they shouldn’t bind...or be too loose. As they say in the movies.......make it “just ever so.....”.

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I purchased Ernie Foster heads from John Kocsis in 2019 along with acorn nuts and washers.  I think he was down to his next to last set of nuts and washers though.  They were beautifully made and plated.  I used the same new studs with slightly longer studs for the spark plug conduit brackets.  The heads slide down around the studs with plenty of clearance.  I permatex coated the studs and used a new head gasket that John supplied with copper coat sprayed onto the gaskets.  No problems so far.  My Lincoln runs nice and cool unlike the 35 I used to have with cast irons heads that always ran way too hot.  

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I was wondering about the copper coat. When my dad was around, we started building engines back when I was four, it was a long time ago we always used to paint them with a metal paint either silver or gold. But the paint had to be a metallic or metal in it. It always seem to work, I’ll have to buy a can of that and spray it on something to see if I like it. I don’t want to bond the heads in place, they can be hard enough to come off after 5 to 10 years. Thanks Chuck!

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I had to install these heads twice as John's machine shop forgot to weld closed the casting plugs.  The heads came right off even with the copper coat although they hadn't been on very long.  I suppose the heads might bond after running for awhile.  

 

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Well I thought I’d give a little bit of an update. Almost can’t remember where I left off but while I was at the point where the heads were off I decided to go a little further. I pulled all the valves out and did a valve job on it. The assembled height spring pressure when the valves were closed was on the whippy side was only 40 pounds. I brought that up to book value which is around 75 to 80 pounds. Did a little bit of porting while I was there, not radical just cleaned up a few little places, the port shapes are very nice. I decided to flush the cylinders water jackets out with water. This is a great time to do that. There is a elbow at the bottom of each bank that is the water inlet. I took those off and took a water hose nozzle that I could put different ends on. Rolled the car outside and sprayed through all of the water passages. I literally got a quart of debris out of it some of it look like sand not much rust but just a Lot of crap. I think somebody poured some thing in this at one time to stop leakage. If you get to the point where you have the heads off that’s a great time to do that. Once again this car did not have a heating issue the issue was combustion gas is pressurizing the water system. But cleaning those passages and the crud in the water check a job is a big plus. Picture below is the water nozzle and some of the debris that was inside the water jackets. Picture below is the water nozzle and some of the debris that was inside the water jackets.

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Before I took the engine down I had taken a couple hundred mile drive in it the outside temperature was in the low 50s. I had a hard time getting the engine warmed up enough that I could take the choke off. Ended up covering part of the radiator just to get it up to in the 140 range. It wanted to run around 120. It did not have a shutter system in front of the radiator. Once again my friend Ray Theriault came through with a bellows and shutter system that was in good shape. I stripped it painted it and installed it the bellows starts to move at 140°. That should solve the problem of cold days.

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When installing the intake exhaust and the carburetor log or crossover. It’s much easier to do with the heads off. You can actually get your finger in there to start the round nosed nuts. I put the crossover or carburetor log on with some temporary fasteners, no gaskets to align the intake and exhaust all up in the same plane. I also put the “Y”  pipe/collector on with no gasket to do the same thing. All the fasteners were torque to 25 foot pounds. We have to kind of sneak up on it when tightening everything. I came back the next day and recheck them and was able to get another 10° Of turn on them. After the engine has run a little I will go back through and re-torque everything. Several times.

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The ARP studs are fantastic. There is a 3/16 hex on the end of them they install very easy. There were only six that either go into water, intake or exhaust ports they’re all across the top. But I used a High temperature liquid Teflon thread sealant on all the studs.  The acorn nuts are the best looking nuts I have ever seen. Once again I got them from Ray Theriault. They were a little pricey but they were worth every penny. They’re absolutely beautiful. Picture below showing getting it set up to install the head. Laid out all the fasteners so I didn’t have to go looking.C989578A-6732-4B9F-A426-A9D7556D681E.thumb.jpeg.4eb4e993e4848eb0c48768a9adb1131a.jpeg

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Time to install the heads. I ended up going to a final torque value of 45 foot pounds. Are used a RP thread lubricant on each stud. Final torque value is probably a little higher than 45 because of the less friction on each nut. I made a little tapered piece that slipped over two studs and the outside was tapered this centered the head on the studs. There was quite a bit of slop between the stud and the holes in the head. These are aftermarket heads they’re very nice but they added a little bit more clearance for the studs than the stock ones. Which should help removal if they ever come off. Hopefully not in my lifetime. LOL. I also turn down a piece of metal to clamp in the spark plug tube holder to hold it in the right orientation while talking the nuts. If you don’t do this they will spin and turn. It’s hard to put a wrench underneath them it would have to be a very thin one, I didn’t have one to sacrifice.

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Well we have the fan assembly off it’s probably a good time to repack the bearings. The seal was a felt seal. I tried to find a modern seal for it and nothing seem to be available in metric or an inch. So I had to make another one out of felt. You can take the whole thing apart but you have to be very careful not to ruin anything. Literally this fan runs on a spindle that you could use on a go cart. After it is assembled if you put the little cover that’s on the fan last you can put a grease zert the fill line and pump that full of grease while slowly turning it. Once that’s done you’ll never have to touch it again are used a little bit of silicone sealant to put the cap on, Its called “the right stuff” it’s fantastic

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Cleaned up the distributor somewhat, sanded and painted, re-checked synchronization on my distributor machine and bought some new fasteners to hold the distributor clips on. Once again using one of the rotors that I make.C0B1DF14-AC96-486F-AE03-0C81A9387C42.thumb.jpeg.2c1e71d40861f37408c13e7dbf642bb1.jpeg

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Well this is pretty much where I’m at today. I have not started it yet but I am very close. I keep getting a few yard duty jobs in front of this one. But only have to do a few more things, air cleaner will go on today and buttoning up the exhaust manifold, some cables and it will be ready to start. It’s turning out very nice. If it runs as good as it looks I’ll be happy.

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In the image showing the head gasket installed, it appears that a good number of (presumably) coolant circulation holes are covered ... 3 smaller and 2 noticeably larger.  Is that correct ... ?

      thnx

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Looks awesome! What length studs did you use, Lynn?

 

I still need to send you my distributor. It's time to get my car back together, you've inspired me!

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Wow.......parts that fit and are of good quality........unusual today. All the service looks very well done........which is also rare today. I expect the car will perform as you want it to. Shortcuts and budgets ruin cars. When I see work like this, I keep a mental note the car is “well done and maintained” and thus, a “added value” car. Ed

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3 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

Looks awesome! What length studs did you use, Lynn?

 

I still need to send you my distributor. It's time to get my car back together, you've inspired me!


Matt.......send me your distributor. I’ll take care of it for you. Or, I can pick it up in June or July when I am back to the lakeside city. Ed.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

Looks awesome! What length studs did you use, Lynn?

 

I still need to send you my distributor. It's time to get my car back together, you've inspired me!

Thank you Matt: I attached some photos of the stud and the receipt, that's the price for 60, I figured if I bought 2 extras I wouldn't loose one 🙂.  There not cheap but very nice.  They can be torqued to 85 ft. lbs. I would recommend using the thread lubricant on the stud and under the nut.

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2 hours ago, edinmass said:

Wow.......parts that fit and are of good quality........unusual today. All the service looks very well done........which is also rare today. I expect the car will perform as you want it to. Shortcuts and budgets ruin cars. When I see work like this, I keep a mental note the car is “well done and maintained” and thus, a “added value” car. Ed

Thanks Ed.  You know most of the issues I had with this car is where someone cut a corner for the fix or maintenance 😞 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well last night, March 28. I decided this was the evening to start the Lincoln. Had to pour a little fuel down the carburetor to prime everything but it lit right off and ran like a Swiss watch. I let it run for a while, probably 10 minutes at a semi-fast idle I watch the shutter system open up at 140° and I ran it for probably 30 minutes the outlet temperature was 193 check with an infrared gun. Shut it off let it sit for 10 minutes flip the switch on and bumped the starter button and it fired right off. Very happy. This evening I re-torqued the intake manifold the intake/exhaust manifolds and the heads. Glad I did the heads again. I probably got anywhere from 30 to 90° of turn on each nut. It’s very quiet mechanically. Idols very nice. Tomorrow I’ll put a vacuum gauge on the carburetor and check ignition timing, I’ll probably put it at 10° before top dead center and advance a few degrees from there to find its best performance. I’m a happy camper.

 

I am posting this from my iPhone so I hope it displays OK. I’ll check it sometime in the next 24 hours on the PC to make sure it does.

Lynn

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Everything looks very nice, and well done. The manifolds look good with their treatment. Glad it fired right off for you. Just on short comment, PLEASE - never pour gas down a carb, I know four people personally who have been severely burned when they did that and the car backfired. I would thermo cycle the car two or three times a day, checking the head torque a couple of times after it goes through three or four cycles. It’s a great platform, and one of the better “sleepers” in the era. And, usually a very good quality custom body. Three thumbs up for a project well done, with no shortcuts. 👍👍👍

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On 1/16/2021 at 9:16 PM, edinmass said:

No worries....not trying to be difficult. If you wanted to modify the block, the proper repair would be to stitch it and re-drill it. (No heat.) If possible compare a factory gasket to a modern reproduction to see if they are identical. Since you were no over heating it’s unlikely you were dumping combustion gasses into the system. It doesn’t “find its level”.............as most car do in several heat cycles. Combustion gasses would tend to constantly push while driving. You didn’t mention foaming.............another possibility causing it to air bind. 
 

 

What would I do now that it’s apart? 
 

Pressure test the heads.......not easy, but worth while. Check them to see if they are flat.

Rebuild the pump. If you see lots of scoring on the shaft it’s likely drawing air.

Run plain water while trying to diagnose the water pushing. Anti freeze and water pump lubricants tend to cover up air binding  issues. The symptoms of air should get much worse with plain water........

 

I would use a scope to look inside the block........it looks like you may have sediment in the system. See Matt Harwood’s Lincoln thread on a cracked block and head stud issues. He used my stitcher to fix his block. I would flush the system with evapo rust heated to 180 degrees. Unfortunately, you may have to reassemble and try it without finding a definitive answer to what was causing the issue. The “go to” guy on these engines passed away a few years ago.....(Ernie Foster)....I’m not sure if there is anyone around who has done dozens of these engines anymore. Can you give a more detailed account on the water pushing out? Volume? Time? Ect.

 

 

 


Rereading the thread, I see my comment about water pumps drawing air, and foaming. Two weeks ago, I took out V-16 Sport Phaeton out for a LONG drive. Every year or two I like to do 200 miles in a few hours to prove the car is functional at a high engine load. Since we don’t have great surface roads here that are safe to drive under those conditions, I jumped on 95 and headed north towards the open area of the county to our north. After ten minutes on 95 car was running cool and steady when all of a sudden.........a big mess of antifreeze comes past the radiator mascot..........puking and blowing a fine mist. This happened at 65 mph. I backed off and right away the leaking stoped. I’d figured it was probably a head gasket. At 55 mph all was well so we drove it a bit slower for the next thirty miles till we got to our lunch stop. On the return trip home the exact same thing.......no overheating but another mess. By the time I got to the shop, I figured out what I thought the problem may be. The thirty year old restoration had been driven 8K miles over the years. I opened the hood and checked......sure enough, my guess was correct. When restored all those years ago, a short cut was made........the water pump grease cup didn’t have the check valve in it, so at high speed the car sucked the grease out of the cup and it was sucking air.........only at high rpm...........and it certainly was the first time in twenty five years the car was driven that hard. (When testing a car, I drive them to 90 percent of their operating range.....ie to 90 percent of maximum rpm for about five minutes.) so I did a temporary fix till I can get a correct grease cup. Easy fix, big mess. I was just happy I wasn’t pulling heads. Anytime you push water and don’t overheat, 90 percent of the time it’s drawing air in the system by the pump. The other ten percent is a collapsed hose or a restricted radiator.

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
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Hi Ed

Thanks for the info on the water pump.  I pretty sure I am not drawing air through the pump but not 100% sure.  The Lincoln pump has an input shaft with a rope type packing and on the other end there is a zert with a screw on cap to seal the zert.  In my case the zert is off and plugged with a pipe plug so it could only draw it threw the packing side, I would suspect it would be leaking water if it were drawing air from the packing side??  At one point I plan on taking that assembly off and going though them.  It's the generator, water pump and the oil heat exchanger all in one package.  Its seams to be operating OK at this point and didn't want to mess with it yet.  I do need to drain the water out and put antifreeze in so maybe this is a good time to do it. I have attached a couple of photos of an extra generator/pump assembly.  It's rusty but at least you an see what I am talking about.

Lynn

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Well I re-torqued everything for the third time the other day, barely got any turns on any of the nuts maybe three or 4° in a couple. So it’s settling down good I’ll check it one more time (or 2) after I run it around some more. Runs great I did set the timing at 10° before top dead center and as you can see from the vacuum gauge I have a good vacuum I’ll have to see what I can idol this down to sometime but I had it at 300 RPMs and it was chugging right along. I did move it back up to about 500 rpm. Runs great has good acceleration now. Actually when I step on the throttle I can feel it sent me back into the seat somewhere which is good for a 5000+ car. I think it’s going to work out well.

 

I have put on the list to take the generator water pump off and go through them. That and the starter is the only thing I haven’t touched. I thought what the heck might as well take a look inside of everything and see where I’m at. So far very pleased with how it runs. I think it’s going to be a very fun to her car. Let’s just hope Gas doesn’t go any higher. LOL. I’m going to have to take it on a few long runs and see what kind of fuel economy I get. I’m not expecting much I’d love to get 14 but 12 would be OK too.

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