Starter/Generator Repair Advice Sought

[hddennis]

Just got a rough spare Simms-Huff starter generator for my 1917 Maxwell and after disassembling it for assessment find that it can be salvaged into a working unit IF I can solve one problem the armature bearing surfaces on both ends have suffered a bearing failure that left the shaft deeply undercut. If this was a more modern unit I could use some of the modern adhesives and the problem would be solved because  It could be assembled after the adhesive set. This unit is assembled first and the the bearings have a light press fit from the outside ends so the shaft and housing fit is more critical than most.  I have another armature that I wonder if the shaft could be pressed out and used on this unit. 

Having never done this before I thought I'd ask if anyone can tell me if this is possible or should I seek a professional rebuilder or just look for better parts?  Just for clarity my pictures show other units not the one I'm currently working on.

Thanks for any advice or suggestions,

Howard Dennis

 

Edited November 4, 2020 by hddennis (see edit history)

[Bloo]

If the bearings have a race and do not run rollers directly on the shaft, maybe it could be fixed by spray welding?

[hddennis]

26 minutes ago, Bloo said:

If the bearings have a race and do not run rollers directly on the shaft, maybe it could be fixed by spray welding?

Bearings are ball type with inner and outer race. Could spray welding be done with out damaging surrounding parts?

 

Howard Dennis

[Bloo]

I don't know. It looks like the damage is back a bit from your pics. I would ask. I suspect it is possible. I have had some nice work done at Flamespray Northwest of Seattle WA, but that doesn't seem to be in your neighborhood.

[hddennis]

5 hours ago, Bloo said:

I don't know. It looks like the damage is back a bit from your pics. I would ask. I suspect it is possible. I have had some nice work done at Flamespray Northwest of Seattle WA, but that doesn't seem to be in your neighborhood.

You didn't notice my statement that these pictures are just to show one like I'm working on and not my actual unit. 

 

Howard Dennis

Edited November 4, 2020 by hddennis (see edit history)

[c49er]

Cut and sleeve it?

[Bhigdog]

6 hours ago, c49er said:

Cut and sleeve it?

Absolutely. Turn the shaft down until the wear is cleaned up and make a sleeve installed using Loctite 660. If the shaft has a center hole in the end, it likely does, then make the sleeve over size and turn to size on the shaft. It will run dead nuts true..........Bob

[Oldtech]

No you can't push the shaft out of an armature. They are built on the shaft and would " fall apart". I like bhigdog's idea.  Spray welding I know little about, Regular welding could be done but would be tricky to keep everything cool and the shaft would likely require straightening afterward. Also tricky. 

[Bloo]

I like Bhigdog's idea too.

 

 

Edited November 5, 2020 by Bloo (see edit history)

[hddennis]

5 hours ago, Bhigdog said:

Absolutely. Turn the shaft down until the wear is cleaned up and make a sleeve installed using Loctite 660. If the shaft has a center hole in the end, it likely does, then make the sleeve over size and turn to size on the shaft. It will run dead nuts true..........Bob

Thanks, Would this be something a local machine shop could handle without too much trouble?

Howard Dennis

[Bloo]

Almost certainly. A general machine shop, not an automotive one.

 

 

[Bhigdog]

6 hours ago, hddennis said:

Thanks, Would this be something a local machine shop could handle without too much trouble?

Howard Dennis

 

Any competent general type machine shop would be able to do the job. Ideally the armature should be turned between centers. A four jaw chuck and a center would be next best. Finding one to take the time for a one off job may be the problem. Also a better Loctite would be 620. It's rated for temps up to 200 C, (almost 400 F). Good luck ..............Bob

[hddennis]

Thank you all for your responses I really appreciate the help. I'll take this thing back apart now that I know it can all be saved and send the armature out while I  restore the rest of it and then I'll have a ready to use spare. I watched this thing on eBay for months and it finally dropped to the point that I could not refuse it. When it arrived It seemed like it had spent it's entire life outside but being overbuilt like most things on these early cars I was able to coax it back to life only to find out that a lack of maintenance had all but destroyed the armature. Thanks to the help you guys gave me I can now overcome this last hurdle and that's one of the reason's I love this site.

 

Howard Dennis

[Oldtech]

Here's what I use mine for.

It wants to go sideways. Don't know why.

 

 

I don't have the Maxwell, just a few parts

 

 

[hddennis]

Interesting, I've rescued  several that have been used as power sources in the past. Quick question, I believe the lower terminal was the original field terminal but I've never seen one with the terminal above with the red wire. What is it's purpose?

 

Howard Dennis

Edited November 7, 2020 by hddennis (see edit history)

[Oldtech]

Red wire is the power, other is field connection. If you remove the wire from the field connection it speeds up.  I don't know the explanation. My father was a motor man. He did it. I've never had it apart. 

[hddennis]

1 hour ago, Oldtech said:

Red wire is the power, other is field connection. If you remove the wire from the field connection it speeds up.  I don't know the explanation. My father was a motor man. He did it. I've never had it apart. 

 

Thanks Oldtech, wished I understood electricity better. When on the Maxwell the power came in by battery cable to a stud on the brush holder end and that and the field terminal were the only 2 connections on the starter/generator. 

Howard Dennis

[Oldtech]

I'm guessing my Dad modified something to suit his purposes. As I said, he was a motor man. Rewound motors and generators back then. That lathe was built in the 30's I believe and that motor was what he used until eventually he found a 1200 rpm 120 volt.  I set it up again after he passed with the old motor. 

[hddennis]

When you use it as it's set up now is it powered by a 12 volt car battery?

 

Howard Dennis

[Oldtech]

Yes it's 12 volt. He had a 12 volt lighting system in his house for years before we had farm power in 1955. he still used the Simms Huff for years after that.